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BI0L0GYwizard Posts: 1 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,17:10    Looks like Stein is stepping outside his usual area of expertise--the economy. Anyway, I missed my chance to see it. Does anyone here know if it is still being sold? If so, please contact me.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,17:22    Quote (BI0L0GYwizard @ Jan. 19 2009,17:10) Looks like Stein is stepping outside his usual area of expertise--the economy. Anyway, I missed my chance to see it. Does anyone here know if it is still being sold? If so, please contact me. If you check your local flyers, you might be able to get a coupon, and save even more! -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,17:29    I guarantee it's still being sold. It will be sold for decades. Creationist material is available indefinitely.

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,17:34    I wait for the garage sale. The problem isn't the money. It's the lost hours of my life. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Badger3k Posts: 861 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,18:55    Quote (Marion Delgado @ Jan. 19 2009,15:55) It was a great film, as I said, left out the Davisonian counter theory. However, it completely lived up to its title, unlike many science movies. Well, it did live up to the "no intelligence allowed" part.  There sure was none to be found in the film, unless we use "intelligence" in the sense of "Saddam had WMDs" and "yellowcake" were good, actionable intelligence. -------------- "Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

Bueller_007 Posts: 39 Joined: Nov. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,19:37    Quote (BI0L0GYwizard @ Jan. 19 2009,16:10) Looks like Stein is stepping outside his usual area of expertise--the economy. Anyway, I missed my chance to see it. Does anyone here know if it is still being sold? If so, please contact me. It's available on the interwebs for free in numerous places.  It's easy enough to find.  Don't waste your money on it. Actually, don't waste your time on it either.  The review here has basically nails it: http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2008/12/win_ben_steins_mind.html

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,19:43    Quote (kevinmillerxi @ Jan. 17 2009,11:07) But wouldn't it be simpler to admit that your Germany/Nazi analogy was inaccurate and that anonymous character assassination is your forte? How often they unconsciously let the truth slip! Now look in the mirror and say that again. You've almost got it, Kevin.   Quote (kevinmillerxi @ Jan. 17 2009,11:07) Maybe Kristine might honor you with a shimmy (shudder at the thought). Lower the shudder and you'll have your own shimmy all to yourself. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,19:53    Quote (Kristine @ Jan. 19 2009,19:43) Lower the shudder and you'll have your own shimmy all to yourself. Based on the quality of Kev's writing, and his mastery of debate skills, I would guess that he has it " all to himself" all the time. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

slpage Posts: 349 Joined: June 2004 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,20:47    Quote (noncarborundum @ Jan. 19 2009,11:43) I was ready to rush right out (to amazon.com) and order a copy, but for some reason amazon knows nothing of Dr. Crocker's opus. Are you referring to Crocker's book about integrity in science?

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,20:48    Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 19 2009,19:53) Quote (Kristine @ Jan. 19 2009,19:43) Lower the shudder and you'll have your own shimmy all to yourself. Based on the quality of Kev's writing, and his mastery of debate skills, I would guess that he has it " all to himself" all the time. Ideas for a real screenwriter: Whatever Happened to Baby Ben? Les quatre cents exclures (after Truffaut) Red Deserted (Antonioni) Nacht und Neinstein (Resnais) Roger Corman would have had fun with Expelled. He was, after all, a big Poe fan. (Imagine Vincent in the role of Ben! -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,20:50    Quote (Bueller_007 @ Jan. 19 2009,20:37) Quote (BI0L0GYwizard @ Jan. 19 2009,16:10) Looks like Stein is stepping outside his usual area of expertise--the economy. Anyway, I missed my chance to see it. Does anyone here know if it is still being sold? If so, please contact me. It's available on the interwebs for free in numerous places.  It's easy enough to find.  Don't waste your money on it. Actually, don't waste your time on it either.  The review here has basically nails it: http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2008/12/win_ben_steins_mind.html good stuff: Quote That is simply one revealing fragment. This film is cheerfully ignorant, manipulative, slanted, cherry-picks quotations, draws unwarranted conclusions, makes outrageous juxtapositions (Soviet marching troops representing opponents of ID), pussy-foots around religion (not a single identified believer among the ID people), segues between quotes that are not about the same thing, tells bald-faced lies, and makes a completely baseless association between freedom of speech and freedom to teach religion in a university class that is not about religion. and the usual name-calling culture war BS that only a minority of Americans want to hear anymore. Quote And there is worse, much worse. Toward the end of the film, we find that Stein actually  did want to title it "From Darwin to Hitler." He finds a Creationist who informs him, "Darwinism inspired and advanced Nazism." He refers to advocates of eugenics as liberal. I would not call Hitler liberal. Because you're not a complete idiot. The writers of Expelled, on the other hand....

noncarborundum Posts: 320 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,21:05    Quote (slpage @ Jan. 19 2009,20:47)     Quote (noncarborundum @ Jan. 19 2009,11:43) I was ready to rush right out (to amazon.com) and order a copy, but for some reason amazon knows nothing of Dr. Crocker's opus. Are you referring to Crocker's book about integrity in science? I'm talking about the book described here.  Usually if I read about a book "to be published" sometime in the near future (or, in this case, the near past), I expect amazon.com to have some inkling of it (even, at least sometimes, self-publications).  Not in this case. Is this the book "about integrity in science", or has she written another book amazon.com doesn't know about? (BTW, just in case it needs stating, I'm really not in a rush to delve into Dr. Crocker's literary output.) -------------- "The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

Bueller_007 Posts: 39 Joined: Nov. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2009,01:08    Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 19 2009,19:50) Quote And there is worse, much worse. Toward the end of the film, we find that Stein actually  did want to title it "From Darwin to Hitler." He finds a Creationist who informs him, "Darwinism inspired and advanced Nazism." He refers to advocates of eugenics as liberal. I would not call Hitler liberal. Because you're not a complete idiot. The writers of Expelled, on the other hand.... Nor were the promoters of eugenics in Alberta, Canada "liberal".

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2009,10:56    Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 19 2009,17:29) I guarantee it's still being sold. It will be sold for decades. Creationist material is available indefinitely. If they keep showing it at megachurches and such, I wouldn't count on it have much of a shelf life. After all, who remembers who Duane Gish is anymore? Besides us? The bad news for creationists is that, like the flu, reality now changes (mutates?) too quickly. I predict a greater emphasis on creationist accessorizing next. Less turnaround, more disposable. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2009,12:00    Quote (BI0L0GYwizard @ Jan. 19 2009,17:10) Looks like Stein is stepping outside his usual area of expertise--the economy. Expertise? Are you kidding? If I listened to this quackonomist when he was giving investment advice in 2007 I'd be broke instead of sitting on savings.   Quote But some bad columns only ripen to their true fullness of wrongheadedness after the slow passage of time. And so it is with Stein. Never mind the ostensible thesis of the column -- that Goldman Sachs runs the universe and was pushing dire forecasts of the economic future to boost their own trades. Heck, if any Wall Street institution did run the universe, Goldman Sachs would be the most likely suspect, so I have no particular problem with that conspiracy theory, provided it is properly argued. The fun part in looking back at this column is watching Stein scoff at the deeply bearish pronouncements of Goldman Sachs' chief economist, Jan Hatzius. This is the kind of scoffing that does not benefit from hindsight. Who knew that Darwin's reach extends to Goldman Sachs, as well as Amazon indigenous tribes? Ben, the Liberty Bell called. It wants its ding-a-ling back.   -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Tracy P. Hamilton Posts: 1239 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2009,12:04    Quote (noncarborundum @ Jan. 19 2009,21:05) Quote (slpage @ Jan. 19 2009,20:47)     Quote (noncarborundum @ Jan. 19 2009,11:43) I was ready to rush right out (to amazon.com) and order a copy, but for some reason amazon knows nothing of Dr. Crocker's opus. Are you referring to Crocker's book about integrity in science? I'm talking about the book described here.  Usually if I read about a book "to be published" sometime in the near future (or, in this case, the near past), I expect amazon.com to have some inkling of it (even, at least sometimes, self-publications).  Not in this case. Is this the book "about integrity in science", or has she written another book amazon.com doesn't know about? (BTW, just in case it needs stating, I'm really not in a rush to delve into Dr. Crocker's literary output.) There is another Crocker who is obsessed with Intelligent Designers who use a "poof" mechanism: http://www.tv.com/the-fai....ry.html -------------- "Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV "The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen "We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

noncarborundum Posts: 320 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2009,12:59    Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Jan. 20 2009,12:04)   Quote (noncarborundum @ Jan. 19 2009,21:05)   Quote (slpage @ Jan. 19 2009,20:47)         Quote (noncarborundum @ Jan. 19 2009,11:43) I was ready to rush right out (to amazon.com) and order a copy, but for some reason amazon knows nothing of Dr. Crocker's opus. Are you referring to Crocker's book about integrity in science? I'm talking about the book described here.  Usually if I read about a book "to be published" sometime in the near future (or, in this case, the near past), I expect amazon.com to have some inkling of it (even, at least sometimes, self-publications).  Not in this case. Is this the book "about integrity in science", or has she written another book amazon.com doesn't know about? (BTW, just in case it needs stating, I'm really not in a rush to delve into Dr. Crocker's literary output.) There is another Crocker who is obsessed with Intelligent Designers who use a "poof" mechanism: http://www.tv.com/the-fai....ry.html Yes, but I don't think he's earned his doctorate yet. -------------- "The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

DMB Posts: 5 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2009,10:15    Does anyone think that this ridiculous film has influenced anyone towards ID?

Bueller_007 Posts: 39 Joined: Nov. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2009,10:25    Quote (DMB @ Jan. 21 2009,09:15) Does anyone think that this ridiculous film has influenced anyone towards ID? No.  But that wasn't the point anyway.  The purpose of the film was to bilk the credulous.

Bueller_007 Posts: 39 Joined: Nov. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2009,10:30    Oh how I love Wikipedia. Quote The movie opened in Canada on June 27, 2008 at 36 theaters[126] and grossed $24,374 with a premier at 20th closely behind Thoda Pyaar Thoda Magic, a Hindi language film. OUCH.

jeffox Posts: 671 Joined: Oct. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2009,22:03    Ed Wood couldn't have done a better job losing money on this film.  Even Reefer Madness is more entertaining. Gotta be seven figures lost, at least.  I wish that I had that kind of money to waste. Ha ha.

Nils Ruhr Posts: 42 Joined: Nov. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2009,03:34    Quote (Bueller_007 @ Jan. 21 2009,10:30) Oh how I love Wikipedia.     Quote The movie opened in Canada on June 27, 2008 at 36 theaters[126] and grossed $24,374 with a premier at 20th closely behind Thoda Pyaar Thoda Magic, a Hindi language film. OUCH. [126] http://www.ncseweb.org/resourc....008.asp Page not fround 404 error   http://ncseweb.org/news....xpelled No Canadian box office either

snorkild Posts: 32 Joined: Sep. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2009,04:49    The Canadian box office figures can be seen here: http://www.tribute.ca/movies/BoxOffice.asp?id=16159 -------------- wimp

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2009,05:17    Nils, you can go back to wikipedia now and make an edit to correct that link. As a good internet citizen only concerned with the truth of the matter I fully expect you to do that. I'll be watching the change-log! -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Nils Ruhr Posts: 42 Joined: Nov. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2009,06:21    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Jan. 22 2009,05:17) Nils, you can go back to wikipedia now and make an edit to correct that link. As a good internet citizen only concerned with the truth of the matter I fully expect you to do that. I'll be watching the change-log! I don't have an account. Since Darwinists have semi-protected the Expelled-entry, I'm not able to correct it. Why don't you correct your error? You are the ones who fail to cite properly.

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2009,06:46    Quote (Nils Ruhr @ Jan. 22 2009,03:34)   Quote (Bueller_007 @ Jan. 21 2009,10:30) Oh how I love Wikipedia.         Quote The movie opened in Canada on June 27, 2008 at 36 theaters[126] and grossed $24,374 with a premier at 20th closely behind Thoda Pyaar Thoda Magic, a Hindi language film. OUCH. [126] http://www.ncseweb.org/resourc....008.asp Page not fround 404 error  :O http://ncseweb.org/news....xpelled No Canadian box office either  :O http://ncseweb.org/news/2008/06/expelled-opens-canada-001376 I've added a bit to the Talk page at Wikipedia to provide the new links for the two NCSE articles referenced that pointed to the old site. The Talk page is not "semi-protected". We'll see how long it takes for someone to update the article based on that. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2009,07:50    And, voila, the main page is already updated. See, that wasn't hard. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

slpage Posts: 349 Joined: June 2004 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2009,09:02    Quote (noncarborundum @ Jan. 19 2009,21:05) Quote (slpage @ Jan. 19 2009,20:47)     Quote (noncarborundum @ Jan. 19 2009,11:43) I was ready to rush right out (to amazon.com) and order a copy, but for some reason amazon knows nothing of Dr. Crocker's opus. Are you referring to Crocker's book about integrity in science? I'm talking about the book described here.  Usually if I read about a book "to be published" sometime in the near future (or, in this case, the near past), I expect amazon.com to have some inkling of it (even, at least sometimes, self-publications).  Not in this case. Is this the book "about integrity in science", or has she written another book amazon.com doesn't know about? (BTW, just in case it needs stating, I'm really not in a rush to delve into Dr. Crocker's literary output.) Looks like the same one. That website has a different format - you can no longer email her directly.  Several months ago, when there was an email link, I emailed and asked her if she could tell the difference between a hyrax and a hyracotheium.  No reply... I also noted on her whiny 'replies' link that she claims the things at Expelledexposed about her are wrong. I especially liked this loaded phrase: "· After having been banned from the GMU lecture hall..." Due to the poor economy ( we lost about 1/4 of the worth of our endowment, apparently), we are pink slipping a number of adjuncts.   Will it be correct for them to claim that because their contracts were not renewed that they have been 'banned'?

Schroedinger's Dog Posts: 1692 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2009,09:14    Hey, to Kevin Miller: I am prone to believe that beside your totaly misled ways of using your brain thingy you might be, up to a point, a descent screenwriter. In the way that you may be able to understand some of today's cinematic imperatives (a trait in no way seen in that mockery of a movie that is Expelled). On this basis, here is a challenge for you: Co-write, direct and produce my band's new videoclip. You are allowed to put as much ID propaganda in it as you like, as long as it is scientifically sound. In fact, if you are found of theology, read the concept I wrote for the story surrounding my music. In about 2000 years, this might be the last piece of evidence for a devout and bloodthirsty cult planning to rule over the world. The charges are, of course, to be covered by you and your team. Unconditional term is: "scientifically sound" Have fun :) -------------- "Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G "I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis "The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

Bueller_007 Posts: 39 Joined: Nov. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2009,13:00    Quote (Nils Ruhr @ Jan. 22 2009,05:21) You are the ones who fail to cite properly. a) I'm pretty sure no one at this forum actually wrote that part of the article. b) The part of the sentence I was trying to emphasize was the dismal box office performance, which was properly referenced.  In case you didn't get it, box office performance was so poor that it couldn't even top a movie whose native speakers make up much less than 1% of the population.

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