Louis
Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006
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Oh NOES! I have annoyed Heddle by mocking his asinine faith and playing Mr Cutey Clever Who Never Says Anything Substantial.
Louis runs around like Daffy Duck going "Woop Woop Woop"
Heddle, I know you think your drivel oops sorry "faith" is meaningful, and I know you like your magic book, but nothing of substance? Oy vey! So wounded am I! I better go and have a quick cry.
There all better. Now on with the fun.
1) Try to get this through your skull:
Your reliance on quotes from your magic book and your assertion that you believe it neither prove nor demonstrate a single thing. As always your retreat position is "My magic book says it, my magic book is from god because I and/or it says it is (or depending on the weather I had a magic experience you cannot duplicate, or some such appeal to faith and or mystery), therefore I believe it". No recourse to anything outside of your imagination.
I have just written on a piece of paper that "Heddle = Mr Poo, Heddle hates Jews, loves Hitler, and wants to shag babies up the arse". I believe that not only are the words on that paper inerrant but that my writing of them was a direct act of god working thorugh me. So now by the very self same definitions and process you have, I can claim that your name is now Mr Poo, you are an antisemitic, Hitler-loving paedophile. Quick, someone lock Heddle up!
(Incidentally I don't really believe that you are an antisemitic, Hitler loving paedophile, I was just trying my hand at the process. A confused religious fruitcake, sure, but not those other things. God changing your name to Mr Poo through me....well I haven't quite let go of that yet. It's as intellectually rigourous as your claims, so why not keep it!)
The issue is Heddle Mr Poo, that as someone who doesn't believe in your deity, finds no special value in your magic book, why should I take your claims of "atheists hate god" seriously? Why should you be listened to at all on the subject if all your evidence for the claim that "atheists hate god" is derived from a special interpretation of a magic book for which there is no external corroboration and nothing more than your simple say so?
Answer is: You shouldn't.
Because your magic book says so and Zeus' doesn't does not constitute an answer. A response perhaps, but not an answer. After all (play hypothetical game here) should tomes of Zeus' proclamations be unearthed tomorrow with "Anyone who doesn't believe in me HATES me" emblazoned in big gold letters across the front, does this then mean that you and I both hate Zeus?
I don't think so.
2) Also, I strongly disagree that your summary of the bible's position on fallen man is accurately portrayed as "atheists hate god". The quotes you use discuss the nature of man, i.e. than man is not predisposed to love or worship god. Hate implies active dislike, not merely passive lack of predisposition. The only one (Rom 8:7) that implies activity uses the word "hostile" and even that can be a passive property as opposed to active hostility (for example a hostile environment for X does not imply agents in that environment which actively perpetuate a dislike for X).
So I can understand how, based on your magic book you might claim that humanity's nature is not predisposed towards loving your invisible buddy or following his commands or even simply worhsipping him, but it's a long way from that to hatred, even via opposition or indifference or even simple annoyance, but hatred? Nah, sorry.
Not only that but "atheists hate god" is a statement redolent with misinterpretations. A more accruate summary would be "According to my reading of the bible and my specific faith I believe that atheists hate god." Those are two very different statements. The former could be taken as some form of claim and as such open to disproof, the second is merely a statement about your personal beliefs, and whilst I think it idiotic, I can at least merrily grant you the right to believe as you will.
3) Your opinion, based on your magic book, about humanity's nature and mine differ. Mine because it is derived from evidence alone, your because it is derived from nothing more than fantasy. Does that mean I think human being are perfect or fit some aspirational ideal? No.
I think before you can say that your claim of "atheists hate god" is valid in any sense outside of your personal faith position that this is the case you have to demonstrate that your faith position about humanity's nature has soem validity. Since you'll have to use reason to do this, and reason is the antithesis of faith, good luck. As it stands though Mr Poo, your statement is not very accurate, even basing it on the words of your magic book.
Louis
P.S. Added in edit. I think that every time Mr Poo asserts that atheists hate god, everyone should post up that David Heddle is a paedophile. When questioned we can then justify it on exactly the same basis he justifies his claim. Sound fair?
-------------- Bye.
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