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Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,10:53   

If anyone here has any influence on or knows someone who can influence the ALA’s Committee on Accreditation, and can comment on the quality of the curriculum at the College of St. Catherine or upon any student in this program, I would really appreciate it if you/they contact the COA regarding its decision not to award the College of St. Catherine ALA accreditation for its Master’s of Library and Information Science program, and urge the Committee to reconsider this decision.

Apparently, this decision has shocked even ALA staff, including the accreditation team that was sent to interview us. The COA admits that its decision has nothing to do with the quality of the curriculum or of our professors, who I think have been insulted and humiliated by this dispatch. My professors, my dean, and the President of the college are scrambling to find options for us, rather than allow the COA to doom the careers of hundreds of students at a stroke of the pen. I am so honored to attend this outstanding school in the face of a decision that, in my opinion, risks making ALA accreditation mean nothing.

The COA has apparently done this before, withholding accreditation (we apply again in 2012, too late for me) to the utter mystification of even prominent librarians and archivists, or issuing only three- or four-year accreditation status instead of the standard seven-year without sufficient explanation.

If my school, the only school in Minnesota to offer a chance at an ALA-accredited degree, does not get this accreditation then my Master’s is not worth the paper it is written on, and I will remain “unqualified” for the majority of the positions offered a candidate with an MLIS. I could not work at the Smithsonian, any college or university library or archives, or in most private/corporate institutions. Among the options that I am now weighing is the prospect of not continuing with my Master’s, and swallowing three years of study while working (until last December) full-time, and giving up on this career path.

I spent a sleepless night last night!

I would appreciate anything that anyone could do. Thank you.

P.S. There are many issues of injustice in higher education. Conspiracy to "expel" intelligent design is not one of them. Ask me sometime about “cultural capital” and how the educated get educated, whereas the more your family joins the military, the more your family joins the military. A truly brave person would have made a documentary about how Americans vaunt these supposed “rags to riches” stories while social mobility is becoming less and less possible in the United States, and social class is a taboo subject. (But that would have required too much abstract thinking, I fear.) ???

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,12:23   

Kristine - I'd like to help, but not sure exactly what you would like us to do, and of course not do.  Also, the details you provided are vague - I am not clear on their reasons why, and of course not clear on what it would take to have them re-examine their decision.


I also recommend finding out as many specifics as you can, then calling out the big guns... like PZ and Dawkins.  Hey, if you know 'em - and you do - it's a shame not to ask them for help too.  I'm just guessing, but I think a call from Dawkins is worth a couple million calls from me.

We could also burn a bible, which would call out the Spirit of Kevin Miller XI - I am sure we can convince him that his new "Expelled From Teh Library" movie will make more than Expelled.  

pm me if you want I'll do what I can.ALA Linky


edited for better link

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,13:17   

I guess I was more hoping that any lurkers in my field would be able to contact the COA, or at least find out more information. (Yes, it's vague.)

Thanks anyway. Withdrawal is now a real possibility.  :(

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,13:33   

Kristine,

Can you transfer credit with your Masters to another (accredited) institution/dept? I know it might mean moving/inconvenience but it's better than utter abandonment of 3 years effort.

Louis

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Bye.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,13:59   

I think she should sue them back to the stone age, or at least pre-Dewey decimal system age.  After Al Franken  beats Norm for teh MN senate seat, there will be a LOT of attorneys looking for work.  Hint:   Pick one of Franken's NOT Colemans...

Perhaps a discussion with your College Bursar also might be useful.  

Worse case scenario?  We can send them a LOL Cat with a mean look on it's face... So they best take care.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,14:05   

Ever wanted to see a Larry Moran v. Richard Dawkins catfight?

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,14:27   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 16 2009,14:05)
Ever wanted to see a Larry Moran v. Richard Dawkins catfight?

Well, that was boring.There was no farty flash animations, no photoshopping of each others portraits, no publication of addresses and phone numbers. Nuthin!   And these guys fancy themselves serious scientists?  

At least assure me, Wes, that we are going to have a good ole fashion Expellin'?

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,15:00   

There's a review of the 2004 "Why Intelligent Design Fails" book, done up by IDC advocate Angus Menuge. I think that he could have done a better job given the four and a half year interval.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,16:55   

I'm putting together a timeline relevant to Charles Darwin and his ideas for a handout to be provided at a Cafe' Scientifique presentation tomorrow night.

Link to full-size graphic

If anyone has a suggestion for additional items on the timeline, or, heaven forbid, errors in what I have there, please let me know.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,17:10   

Perhaps punctuated equilibrium deserves a mention? The seventies look kind of empty.

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Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,18:00   

How about Haemophilius influenza - first genome of a free living organism fully sequenced in 1995. Or Saccharomyces cerevisiae as the first eukaryote in 1996.

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"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
sledgehammer



Posts: 533
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,18:18   

I don't understand the connection between Darwin and Larry Hillblom's death in 1995? I recall a famous paternity suit that involved his mother's DNA, only because I worked for his brother, Walt for a time.

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The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,18:42   

I liked Rich Hughes' ID timeline - It is a true classic.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
sledgehammer



Posts: 533
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,19:04   

Quote (J-Dog @ Feb. 16 2009,18:42)
I liked Rich Hughes' ID timeline - It is a true classic.

Got a link?

--------------
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,19:22   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 16 2009,16:55)
I'm putting together a timeline relevant to Charles Darwin and his ideas for a handout to be provided at a Cafe' Scientifique presentation tomorrow night.

Link to full-size graphic

If anyone has a suggestion for additional items on the timeline, or, heaven forbid, errors in what I have there, please let me know.

dynamic theory of island biogeography?  neutral theory biodiversity?    i think you could make an argument, albeit a tenuous one, for both of these ideas being the descendant of darwin.  

please flame that at will.  i'd like to see someone who knows more than me discuss it.

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,20:19   

Quote (sledgehammer @ Feb. 16 2009,19:04)
 
Quote (J-Dog @ Feb. 16 2009,18:42)
I liked Rich Hughes' ID timeline - It is a true classic.

Got a link?

June 12, 2008

I D Timeline - by richardthughes
near the bottom of the page

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,20:34   

Basically, I want items that can serve as jumping-off points for the discussion tomorrow night, rather than any sort of complete timeline.

The Larry Hillblom case is a demonstration that exactly the same analytic techniques that are used in phylogenetics convinced a judge to award $200 million from the Hillblom estate to four illegitimate children of Hillblom's. This was despite the family and the state of California stonewalling the plaintiffs on access to DNA of Hillblom or his known relatives. However, DNA analysis showed that four of the children named as plaintiffs were half-siblings, sharing a father, and other documentation showed that Hillblom was associated with each of the mothers around the right time to father the children in question.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,20:57   

Quote (J-Dog @ Feb. 16 2009,13:59)
I think she should sue them back to the stone age, or at least pre-Dewey decimal system age.  

No leg to stand on there, J-Dog - and not necessary, fortunately. The school is resubmitting its portfolio for a reconsideration of the decision. They want us to keep it positive, :p at least until the final decision in April. (At any rate, it looks like people have already contacted the Committee liaison with specifics about how St. Kate's fulfills the ALA standards.)

Actually, it seems like word of this, and of St. Kate's excellent reputation, has spread, and that graduates with nonaccredited degrees are still encouraged to apply for jobs. We have a lot of allies, and apparently at least some St. Kate alums would be doing the hiring - and they're aware of this situation.
     
Quote (Louis @ Feb. 16 2009,13:33)
Kristine,

Can you transfer credit with your Masters to another (accredited) institution/dept? I know it might mean moving/inconvenience but it's better than utter abandonment of 3 years effort.

Louis, this afternoon I would have said No. Now the answer seems to be Yes.

The college is working to allow us to petition for inclusion in Dominican University (with which St. Kate's had an accredited partnership), which would mean essentially joining the program St. Kate's had before it had to go solo to be a candidate for accreditation.

I can take a leave of absence. Normally, this wouldn't make any difference, being that it was just a year (which wouldn't help me if the reconsideration doesn't go well and I have to wait for the next consideration in 2012), but now I can get an extention.

If we're accredited in 2012, I could stretch my education to 2011 and then receive accreditation in the "look back." That's not my preference, but it's something.

They're also working on allowing withdrawn students to come back after accreditation and receive a degree. They're bending the rules to allow a 100% tuition refund.

I don't think COA was just being mean, but it sounds like there was a big miscommunication, and as I said, there are issues with how COA does things. This has been an education in itself. However, I do feel much better. Thanks for the concern - it looks like we have to be patient.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Wolfhound



Posts: 468
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2009,21:14   

Quote (JLT @ Feb. 13 2009,11:11)
Quote
Darwin's Bracelet has been inspired by parts of the human / hominina evolution: Australopithecus, Homo habilis, Homo erectus, Homo neanderthalensis and Homo sapiens. The skulls are handmade from porcelain and metal.



from here

I don't wear jewellery but that IS tempting.

Well, I think I know what Deadman is getting for Happy Monkey this year.   :)

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I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 17 2009,08:35   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 16 2009,16:55)
I'm putting together a timeline relevant to Charles Darwin and his ideas for a handout to be provided at a Cafe' Scientifique presentation tomorrow night.

Link to full-size graphic

If anyone has a suggestion for additional items on the timeline, or, heaven forbid, errors in what I have there, please let me know.



available in Visio if you'd like to tweak it.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 17 2009,09:25   

Quote
If anyone has a suggestion for additional items on the timeline, or, heaven forbid, errors in what I have there, please let me know.

There are quite a few precursors to Darwin, some going back to the Greeks. I have toyed for some time with putting together a high-school level "biography" of evolution, the idea.

My thinking is it would be good to put all the creationist talking points in historical perspective, showing that they are not new ideas being ignored by mainstream science.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 17 2009,10:19   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 17 2009,06:35)
 
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 16 2009,16:55)
I'm putting together a timeline relevant to Charles Darwin and his ideas for a handout to be provided at a Cafe' Scientifique presentation tomorrow night.

Link to full-size graphic

If anyone has a suggestion for additional items on the timeline, or, heaven forbid, errors in what I have there, please let me know.



available in Visio if you'd like to tweak it.

OUR BROWN & SMELLY BFF RITCHARD IS BACK!!!!!1111!!!



[wipes tear]

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 17 2009,11:22   

OUR BROWN & SMELLY BFF RITCHARD IS BACK!!!!!1111!!!



[wipes tear][/quote]
Arden - If you love him you have to let him go man!  We raised him, we nurtured him, but we have to let him get stinky and sm^elly all on his own now!

It was only a drive-by and he's just going to break our, I mean YOUR heart again...

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 17 2009,14:35   

Quote
 
Quote (J-Dog @ Feb. 17 2009,09:22)
OUR BROWN & SMELLY BFF RITCHARD IS BACK!!!!!1111!!!



[wipes tear]

Arden - If you love him you have to let him go man!  We raised him, we nurtured him, but we have to let him get stinky and sm^elly all on his own now!

It was only a drive-by and he's just going to break our, I mean YOUR heart again...



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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 17 2009,14:51   

Quote (Wolfhound @ Feb. 16 2009,21:14)
Well, I think I know what Deadman is getting for Happy Monkey this year.   :)

Have I told you lately how much I lufffjoo & want to bear your puppies?

ETA: RitchertTHEWES iss hHERE?!?!    
OMG!!

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Henry J



Posts: 5787
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 17 2009,21:14   

Quote
There are quite a few precursors to Darwin, some going back to the Greeks. I have toyed for some time with putting together a high-school level "biography" of evolution, the idea.


But are any of those precursors immediate?!!!111!!!??

Henry

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 17 2009,23:47   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Feb. 13 2009,14:08)
Quote
Bill, I'll admit that I'm prejudiced when it comes to human ancestry.  I don't want us to be descended from apes, so I need extra convincing when it comes to that.  It's my bias.  I'm not sure how we fit into the picture re: evolution.  I'd like to believe we are a special creation of God, but I'm not wed to the idea.


It's my special little dirty secret.  ooooh, I need your extra convincing soooooooo much baby.  It's my bias.  You know you want it.  Like it?  Watch it move.  It's so big and strong.  You can play with my bias but you'll never take it away from me, it's attached to me at the short and curlies.  Evidence shmevidence Reason Shleason look at this big throbbing sonofabitch.  Wanna touch it?  My bias has no scruples and eschews honesty and consistency.  It'll drive you wild.

oh yeah?

I'll bet you said that to all the girls!

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Amadan



Posts: 1337
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 18 2009,08:21   

Proof, if it were needed, that the Papacy is The Whore of Babylon (or as is said in Dublin, 'the Hoor of Ballymun')

 
Quote
Organisers of a papal-backed conference next month marking the 150th anniversary of Darwin’s On the Origin of Species said that at first it had even been proposed to ban Intelligent Design from the event, as “poor theology and poor science”. Intelligent Design would be discussed at the fringes of the conference at the Pontifical Gregorian University, but merely as a “cultural phenomenon”, rather than a scientific or theological issue, organisers said.


I've got a little link. The comments are a useful refresher in creotard for those who might have forgotten the basics.

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"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 18 2009,09:44   

Quote (Amadan @ Feb. 18 2009,08:21)
Proof, if it were needed, that the Papacy is The Whore of Babylon (or as is said in Dublin, 'the Hoor of Ballymun')

 
Quote
Organisers of a papal-backed conference next month marking the 150th anniversary of Darwin’s On the Origin of Species said that at first it had even been proposed to ban Intelligent Design from the event, as “poor theology and poor science”. Intelligent Design would be discussed at the fringes of the conference at the Pontifical Gregorian University, but merely as a “cultural phenomenon”, rather than a scientific or theological issue, organisers said.


I've got a little link. The comments are a useful refresher in creotard for those who might have forgotten the basics.

BWA HA HA!

That's gOt to leave a mark on Dembksi and the DI Shills!

EVEN The POPE and Teh Papists beating up on ID!

From your link:

Organisers of a papal-backed conference next month marking the 150th anniversary of Darwin’s On the Origin of Species said that at first it had even been proposed to ban Intelligent Design from the event, as “poor theology and poor science”.   Intelligent Design would be discussed at the fringes of the conference at the Pontifical Gregorian University, but merely as a “cultural phenomenon”, rather than a scientific or theological issue, organisers said.

BWA HA HA!

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 18 2009,12:43   



--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
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