BWE
Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006
|
Quote (Thought Provoker @ Mar. 03 2010,18:12) | Quote (BWE @ Mar. 03 2010,17:17) | The thing about Penrose's hypothesis that makes it a side issue is that AI research is not hampered by it. |
I suggest Penrose's hypothesis is not a "side issue" for understanding Quantum Mechanics. |
That is probably true. No doubt he has and will continue to add a lot to our understanding of various kinds of physics.
Quote | Quote (BWE @ Mar. 03 2010,17:17) | The direction for now seems clear in AI research and snags thus far aren't appearing. |
Personally, I hope AI research continues at a brisk pace because I suspect it will eventually bring to light what Penrose has been saying.
| Well, suspect all you want. So far, it looks like a pretty well done deal and no problems reported thus far involving godel's theorems which, after all, are what Penrose bases his entire hypothesis upon. Quote | Quote (BWE @ Mar. 03 2010,17:17) | Also, mathematical continuums are fundementally not the same as physical continuums. A physical continuum, no matter how good your measurement system, always has the problem of measurement where at some point, A=B, B=C and A<C. Zeno's paradox is answered in a physical continuum because at some point achilles ends up at B.
This is a major difference between digital and analog signal processing. |
The difference between a mathematical, digital continuum and a physical, analog continuum is noise. |
That is a ridiculous statement. No offense intended but if you think the only difference between the map and the terrain is noise you are going to need to take several steps backwards to get back on track. Quote | Or putting it another way, uncertainty...
...as in quantum uncertainty.
| or putting it another way, mathematical continuums are in no way whatsofuckingever the same as physical continuums. One is the map the other is the landscape.
Quote | In electronics there are these things called "tunneling diodes". Electrons manage to go from point A to point B without travelling in-between.
Achilles can win a foot race with a tortoise because he teleports moment to moment. | perhaps you can ruminate on this and discover why the Planck length is so fundamental to mathematical descriptions of a thing which isn't math.
Quote | Quote (BWE @ Mar. 03 2010,17:17) | It doesn't even need to invoke 'true' randomness, whatever that is. |
A pseudo-random number generator is just a complex digital calculation. The question is whether or not a purely digital machine is capable of AI consciousness. From what I read of Siegelmann and other places, it is probable AI researchers are already giving up on what Penrose calls “Strong AI”. The researchers are looking at quantum computations or analog signals with built in quantum noise. | Correction, what John Searle calls "strong AI" and Penrose adopts.
I believe I have discovered where our ideas diverge and which bits we differ over.
Google "Chinese Room" and see if you think it's a reasonable analogy.
-------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far
The Daily Wingnut
|