Antievolution.org :: Antievolution.org Discussion Board The Critic's Resource on Antievolution

Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Presidential Politics & Antievolution

Pages: (63) < ... 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 ... >

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,08:39    Quote (Spottedwind @ Sep. 30 2008,14:06) [SNIP Excellent stuff]  I guess I just don't see how this situation is different. It isn't. I find it very curious that there is an ever increasing anti-intellectual sentiment in the USA and the UK (and elsewhere). This is especially true in politics. It's also very interesting that the people who have developed the PR strategy of decrying the "liberal elite" (for example) as "not being like you and me" are themselves very elite, very competent intellectuals. Why does anyone want the most elite and capable athletes to represent their nation, the most elite and capable surgeons to perform their surgery, the most elite and capable scientists to discover cures for their diseases and yet when it comes to the trifling and simple matter of controlling a nuclear arsenal or the labyrinthian convolutions of international relations or the complex fluctuations of economics they want "jes' plain ol' folks". It's one of the most staggering bits of irrational hypocrisy I've ever encountered. Louis -------------- Bye.

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,08:52    We also insist on having a civilian as commander in chief of the armed forces. Sometimes someone with no military experience. Go figure. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Spottedwind Posts: 83 Joined: Aug. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,09:39    Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 30 2008,09:52) We also insist on having a civilian as commander in chief of the armed forces. Sometimes someone with no military experience. Go figure. Similar but a little different, IMO.  One aspect of having a civilain commander-in-chief is about trying to control the power of a military and avoid it having too much influence on the government.  In theory, such a commander could keep politics out of the military and keep the military out of politics.  And then of course we have reality, but I digress. On the other hand, I think there is a good point that said commander should have a good understanding of the capabilites and limitation of the armed forces.  I think a good commander-in-chief should give heavy weight to the advice of his military advisors when regarding military actions.  Their advice shouldn't be taken as flawless, but ultima ratio regum is not something to take lightly. quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,09:46    Republican's next pick after Palin bows out for 'family time'? Would this be an improvement?  Inquiring minds want to know. -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,09:49    I was being a bit sarcastic. I think civilian control of the military is as important as freedom of the press and secularism. The political Trinity, at least until someone adds more to the list. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Spottedwind Posts: 83 Joined: Aug. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,09:59    I knew that, who said I didn't? <insert Zoidberg image here> (I have no excuse midwife, I'm bad at detecting sarcasm on the internet)

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,10:00    Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Sep. 30 2008,15:46) Republican's next pick after Palin bows out for 'family time'? Would this be an improvement?  Inquiring minds want to know. Would this be an improvement? Yes. I've always thought Arden's mother would be a good candidate. Sorry, was that not the question? Louis -------------- Bye.

Tracy P. Hamilton Posts: 1239 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,10:07    Quote (carlsonjok @ Sep. 28 2008,21:19) Frankly, I have to agree with Steve.  This has gotten pathetic and all I can feel is pity for her. While I doubt I would ever have common ground with Palin, I think she could have been a respectable pol with sufficient seasoning*. She just wasn't ready to be on the stage at this level and I cannot escape the feeling that the McCain campaign has her on a extremely short leash and won't allow her to do anything other than act the beauty queen and regurgitate the sound bites that they feed her. * Garlic powder, cumin, a pinch of salt, and maybe some ground ancho pepper.   Sarah Palin and seasoning:  her nickname should be Bible Spice.   Read on the intarwebs somewhere. I can't work up any sympathy for a person who volunteered to be embarassed. -------------- "Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV "The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen "We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,11:18    Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 30 2008,06:52) We also insist on having a civilian as commander in chief of the armed forces. Sometimes someone with no military experience. Go figure. The Naval War College did a very disturbing war game study some years ago. They found that "commanders in chief" who lacked personal military experience grossly over estimated the effectiveness and capabilities of the military. Plus, they were more likely to turn to a military solution when apparently frustrated diplomatically. -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,11:57    Quote They found that "commanders in chief" who lacked personal military experience grossly over estimated the effectiveness and capabilities of the military. Plus, they were more likely to turn to a military solution when apparently frustrated diplomatically. I'm a Vietnam vet. Been there, done that. Anybody who's seen something like that will be cautious about what the military can do. Now if you need to break something, no one can do it faster or better than the U.S. military. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

dogdidit Posts: 315 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,12:54    Quote (Spottedwind @ Sep. 30 2008,09:59) I knew that, who said I didn't? HAR HAR THIS IS YOU -------------- "Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,12:56    Civilian commander-in-chief v. military dictatorship or junta? I'll go with the civilian, please. After having contracted to the military for several years as a civilian consultant, I'd commend that as another way to come to an appreciation of the limitations of military capability. I think that the voting public was sufficiently apprised of the "chicken hawk" nature of the current administration at the least; I'd prefer that we take such choices on a case-by-case basis and not be quick to try to add restrictions on eligibility for our highest public office. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,13:41    Quote I'd prefer that we take such choices on a case-by-case basis and not be quick to try to add restrictions on eligibility for our highest public office. No one is adding restrictions, but it does figure into the voting decisions of some people. Off topic, but if I were asking debate questions I would be more interested in how to deal with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia than with Iraq or Afghanistan, or even Iran. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,14:29    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 30 2008,18:56) Civilian commander-in-chief v. military dictatorship or junta? I'll go with the civilian, please. After having contracted to the military for several years as a civilian consultant, I'd commend that as another way to come to an appreciation of the limitations of military capability. I think that the voting public was sufficiently apprised of the "chicken hawk" nature of the current administration at the least; I'd prefer that we take such choices on a case-by-case basis and not be quick to try to add restrictions on eligibility for our highest public office. There's absolutely no desire on my part to add restrictions. The tricky balancing act between getting the best person for the job and getting the best available democratically elected person for the job is the issue. It's up to parties to put forward better candidates under the current system, but I wouldn't argue against a certain degree of qualification being required for the post. But then that requires the opportunity to get those qualifications be equally open to all...... Louis -------------- Bye.

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,14:30    Quote No one is adding restrictions Well, that's reassuring. The fact that my statement of principle seems not to be in any danger from a current instance is a pleasant non-surprise. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

dogdidit Posts: 315 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,15:56    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 30 2008,14:29) It's up to parties to put forward better candidates under the current system, but I wouldn't argue against a certain degree of qualification being required for the post. The American political system typically chooses President's from its pool of current and former executive leaders: state governors, presidents (up for re-election), and sitting vice presidents. This election cycle is the first in 100 years to break that rule, since neither candidate fits the 'former elected executive' criteria. That's one missing qualification, right there. I don't know if military experience prepares anybody to be commander-in-chief; everybody in uniform has a senior commander, from whom emanate orders. It would be useful for the President to know the risks and limitations of military power, e.g. that foreign dictators are remarkably difficult to kill with Tomohawk missiles. But that sort of wisdom ought to be attainable from history, and common sense. (And a little outrage - why doesn't the weapon system do all the things we were promised it could do when we bought it?!) -------------- "Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,16:38    This may sound naive, but a president is himself plus his party. If the party can't fill the vacancies in a president's knowledge and skill package, the country is screwed, because very few people are fully qualified for the job. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Richard Simons Posts: 425 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,21:42    I see The Economist is polling its readers to see who they would prefer. Each country gets votes according to its population following the American Electoral College system. Current results are McCain 3, Obama 8192 - but we all know how reliable internet polls are ;-) -------------- All sweeping statements are wrong.

dheddle Posts: 545 Joined: Sep. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,06:53    Quote (Richard Simons @ Sep. 30 2008,21:42) I see The Economist is polling its readers to see who they would prefer. Each country gets votes according to its population following the American Electoral College system. Current results are McCain 3, Obama 8192 - but we all know how reliable internet polls are ;-) If there were no other reasons to vote for McCain (and there aren't many, other than Sarah Palin and Joe 'they shot at me!' Biden) that alone might provide sufficient cause. -------------- Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,07:33    Quote (dheddle @ Oct. 01 2008,06:53) If there were no other reasons to vote for McCain (and there aren't many, other than Sarah Palin Indeed, after 8 years of Cheney's malevolent machinations it would be a pleasant change to have an effervescent incompetent take up residence at the Naval Observatory, although I am concerned that the change in address will leave her unable to monitor Russia.  It could be a problem, what with Putin raising it's head. Another good thing about Sarah is that, unlike Cheney, she doesn't shoot her friends in the face. Only mooses and political enemies. -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

Richard Simons Posts: 425 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,08:32    Quote (dheddle @ Oct. 01 2008,06:53) Quote (Richard Simons @ Sep. 30 2008,21:42) I see The Economist is polling its readers to see who they would prefer. Each country gets votes according to its population following the American Electoral College system. Current results are McCain 3, Obama 8192 - but we all know how reliable internet polls are ;-) If there were no other reasons to vote for McCain (and there aren't many, other than Sarah Palin and Joe 'they shot at me!' Biden) that alone might provide sufficient cause. Why do so many Americans seem to take the view that it is a good thing to have a leader who is disliked elsewhere? I do not understand this attitude "I am opposed to whatever you want". -------------- All sweeping statements are wrong.

dheddle Posts: 545 Joined: Sep. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,08:38    Quote (Richard Simons @ Oct. 01 2008,08:32)   Quote (dheddle @ Oct. 01 2008,06:53)     Quote (Richard Simons @ Sep. 30 2008,21:42) I see The Economist is polling its readers to see who they would prefer. Each country gets votes according to its population following the American Electoral College system. Current results are McCain 3, Obama 8192 - but we all know how reliable internet polls are ;-) If there were no other reasons to vote for McCain (and there aren't many, other than Sarah Palin and Joe 'they shot at me!' Biden) that alone might provide sufficient cause. Why do so many Americans seem to take the view that it is a good thing to have a leader who is disliked elsewhere? I do not understand this attitude "I am opposed to whatever you want". It's not that. I simply have an inviolate voting guideline: If, in the postmodern world, China, Russia, and Venezuela are against a candidate, and Andorra is for that candidate, I'm going to vote for him no matter what. This rule has never let me down. -------------- Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,08:56    The Bush/Cheney and the Clinton/Gore administrations are a good contrast re: military experience. Bush was jumped into the National Guard, and had no theater experience of any kind. Cheney ran out the war through 4 or 5 deferments. They used the military as a primary tool. Clinton used student deferments, but Gore had some non-combat experience as a soldier in a war-zone. They used the military sparingly and only on terms that the military advised. I agree with Wes that there are alternatives to direct service. As I recall, the War College study I mentioned only had  partisipants who were mostly politicians split military v. non-military. However, it has been probably 20 years since I read the article. -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,09:02    More on topic, the Palin/Couric saga continues: Quote Couric: What's your position on global warming? Do you believe it's man-made or not? Palin: Well, we're the only Arctic state, of course, Alaska. So we feel the impacts more than any other state, up there with the changes in climates. And certainly, it is apparent. We have erosion issues. And we have melting sea ice, of course. So, what I've done up there is form a sub-cabinet to focus solely on climate change. Understanding that it is real. And … Couric: Is it man-made, though in your view? Palin: You know there are - there are man's activities that can be contributed to the issues that we're dealing with now, these impacts. I'm not going to solely blame all of man's activities on changes in climate. Because the world's weather patterns are cyclical. And over history we have seen change there. But kind of doesn't matter at this point, as we debate what caused it. The point is: it's real; we need to do something about it. All in all, not a bad answer adjusting for a bit of verbal salad tossing. Quote Couric: Do you believe evolution should be taught as an accepted scientific principle or as one of several theories? Palin: Oh, I think it should be taught as an accepted principle. And, as you know, I say that also as the daughter of a school teacher, a science teacher, who has really instilled in me a respect for science. It should be taught in our schools. And I won't deny that I see the hand of God in this beautiful creation that is Earth. But that is not part of the state policy or a local curriculum in a school district. Science should be taught it science class. No objection there, either. Darn it! -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,09:06    I think it might be useful for aspiring presidential candidates to go through boot camp. Tom Lehrer wrote a song about it, but it's not the same as being there. Quite frankly, most vets, including Gore and myself, have not participated in close combat. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,09:14    Quote (midwifetoad @ Oct. 01 2008,07:06) I think it might be useful for aspiring presidential candidates to go through boot camp. Tom Lehrer wrote a song about it, but it's not the same as being there. Quite frankly, most vets, including Gore and myself, have not participated in close combat. The number of people actually shooting at each other in a war is actually a small percentage. -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Draconizza Posts: 6 Joined: Oct. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,09:32    I'm not so optimistic Dr.GH, look at the fine print of Palin's answer Couric: Should creationism be allowed to be taught anywhere in public schools? Palin: Don't have a problem at all with kids debating all sides of theories, all sides of ideas that they ever - kids do it today whether ... it's on paper, in a curriculum or not. Curriculums also are best left to the local school districts. Instead of Big Brother, federal government telling a district what they can and can't teach, I would like to see more control taken over by our school boards, by our local schools, and then state government at the most. But federal government, you know, kind of get out of some of this curriculum and let the locals decide what is best for their students. Leaving the teaching of evolution in the hands of Fundies school board is a standard I.D. tactic

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,10:02    Quote (Draconizza @ Oct. 01 2008,07:32) I'm not so optimistic Dr.GH, look at the fine print of Palin's answer Couric: Should creationism be allowed to be taught anywhere in public schools? Palin: Don't have a problem at all with kids debating all sides of theories, all sides of ideas that they ever - kids do it today whether ... it's on paper, in a curriculum or not. Curriculums also are best left to the local school districts. Instead of Big Brother, federal government telling a district what they can and can't teach, I would like to see more control taken over by our school boards, by our local schools, and then state government at the most. But federal government, you know, kind of get out of some of this curriculum and let the locals decide what is best for their students. Leaving the teaching of evolution in the hands of Fundies school board is a standard I.D. tactic Oh, I am not suggesting that she isn't a creationist- and probably YEC, merely that she sidesteped the question professionally. PS: Welcome to the board.  :D Edited by Dr.GH on Oct. 01 2008,08:02 -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Amadan Posts: 1337 Joined: Jan. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,11:01    Actually, I doubt that she's YEC, and there really isn't too much evidence to suggest that she is. Whatever about the word-salad (and boy, can she ever toss 'em! Croutons, even), she isn't downright dumb. What I do suspect is that she knows perfectly well what The Base wants to hear and is happy to say it. Like DocDoc* Billy, she knows it's all garbage, but hey, if you wanna hunt, ya gotta go where the ducks moose are. *Who's there? -------------- "People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011 JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

Draconizza Posts: 6 Joined: Oct. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,11:05    Quote (Dr.GH @ Oct. 01 2008,10:02) PS: Welcome to the board.  :D Thanks! My last account is gone for some reason, looking forward to the discussion here. Isn't there a rumor that Palin once told someone that she saw man print with dinosaurs?

Pages: (63) < ... 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 ... >

Track this topic	Email this topic	Print this topic

© 2002-2009 Antievolution.org Powered by Ikonboard 3.0.2a © 2001 Ikonboard