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KevinB



Posts: 525
Joined: April 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2016,14:52   

Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 01 2016,10:26)
Wonder how much cash Dembski got out of Barry for the keys to that shack of idiots?

Dr Dr D might well have had to pay Barry to get it towed....

  
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2016,16:11   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 01 2016,11:02)
SNIP Rich vein of TARD

Make of this what you will. Personally I needed this soundtrack to keep me sane for this trip down the tard mines.

That's some good mining....I hope you wore protection.

  
DiEb



Posts: 312
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2016,17:46   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 01 2016,11:02)
Quote (Woodbine @ Mar. 01 2016,00:00)
Hang on a sec, didn't KF previously claim to have heroically prevented this levitation before it could happen? But now he's saying there was in fact demonic hoverage?

Either I'm remembering wrong or KF is a superstitious crackpot telling porkies. Both probably.

Here he said he hasn't seen levitation:
 
Quote
But naturalists deny this and claim that neo-Darwinian evolution is reasonable. But this is an extraordinary claim. After all, just like with levitation, I have never seen one type of organism change into another type.


and here he writes
 
Quote
I am acquainted with a case where the greater miracle being witnessed was in suppressing the degree of levitation and then breaking the hold of destructive forces.


and later
 
Quote
From my perspective of direct knowledge that levitation happens (and the direct knowledge was a big surprise to me –> and there was no question of an illusionist being at work so that talking point falls apart)...


and a bit later a fuller telling
 
Quote
On the order of a year past, in a semi-public case and in the presence of others, I witnessed a clear case of demonic attempted full levitation suppressed by the Liberating power of God. The Gospel Minister in charge — for obvious reasons — did not draw attention to this repeated phenomenon across the course of maybe an hour. He refused to be intimidated and proceeded with the business in hand of setting the victim free by the power of the One who set the Gadarene free.

Successfully.

Nope, no pulleys, invisible strings, magnets, plates etc. There were no cameras there, strictly eyeball, mark I. At a range of about 20 ft under quite well-lighted conditions. With multiple trained observers present, myself included. (And, do I need to add that I have fiddled a bit with a mag lev control system apparatus?)


and more explanation, in response to Graham2's "Oh, but you saw someone that didn’t levitate."
 
Quote
G2, nope. There was levitation of several inches (in a level position as on a slab . . . probably symbolic, I suspect . . . and with the floor and carpet underneath clearly visible . . . ), but the hips down were pinned to the ground as though by a pressing hand, resulting in a truly abnormal bodily posture. Arms sometimes dangled limply to the floor, as did head, falling back . . . as would be expected of an unconscious, limp body. The victim at the time was indeed unconscious. KF

Make of this what you will. Personally I needed this soundtrack to keep me sane for this trip down the tard mines.

Very well researched! POTW?

   
someotherguy



Posts: 398
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2016,19:19   

Quote (DiEb @ Mar. 01 2016,17:46)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 01 2016,11:02)
Quote (Woodbine @ Mar. 01 2016,00:00)
Hang on a sec, didn't KF previously claim to have heroically prevented this levitation before it could happen? But now he's saying there was in fact demonic hoverage?

Either I'm remembering wrong or KF is a superstitious crackpot telling porkies. Both probably.

Here he said he hasn't seen levitation:
   
Quote
But naturalists deny this and claim that neo-Darwinian evolution is reasonable. But this is an extraordinary claim. After all, just like with levitation, I have never seen one type of organism change into another type.


and here he writes
   
Quote
I am acquainted with a case where the greater miracle being witnessed was in suppressing the degree of levitation and then breaking the hold of destructive forces.


and later
   
Quote
From my perspective of direct knowledge that levitation happens (and the direct knowledge was a big surprise to me –> and there was no question of an illusionist being at work so that talking point falls apart)...


and a bit later a fuller telling
   
Quote
On the order of a year past, in a semi-public case and in the presence of others, I witnessed a clear case of demonic attempted full levitation suppressed by the Liberating power of God. The Gospel Minister in charge — for obvious reasons — did not draw attention to this repeated phenomenon across the course of maybe an hour. He refused to be intimidated and proceeded with the business in hand of setting the victim free by the power of the One who set the Gadarene free.

Successfully.

Nope, no pulleys, invisible strings, magnets, plates etc. There were no cameras there, strictly eyeball, mark I. At a range of about 20 ft under quite well-lighted conditions. With multiple trained observers present, myself included. (And, do I need to add that I have fiddled a bit with a mag lev control system apparatus?)


and more explanation, in response to Graham2's "Oh, but you saw someone that didn’t levitate."
   
Quote
G2, nope. There was levitation of several inches (in a level position as on a slab . . . probably symbolic, I suspect . . . and with the floor and carpet underneath clearly visible . . . ), but the hips down were pinned to the ground as though by a pressing hand, resulting in a truly abnormal bodily posture. Arms sometimes dangled limply to the floor, as did head, falling back . . . as would be expected of an unconscious, limp body. The victim at the time was indeed unconscious. KF

Make of this what you will. Personally I needed this soundtrack to keep me sane for this trip down the tard mines.

Very well researched! POTW?

POTW for sure, if for no other reason than compensation for all the pain and suffering required to produce it.

--------------
Evolander in training

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2016,22:18   

Quote
POTW for sure, if for no other reason than compensation for all the pain and suffering required to produce it.


Agreed but nothing a good exorcism couldn't cure followed by a some levity preferably accompanied by pint of witches brew.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2016,22:20   

Quote (Woodbine @ Mar. 01 2016,14:11)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 01 2016,11:02)
SNIP Rich vein of TARD

Make of this what you will. Personally I needed this soundtrack to keep me sane for this trip down the tard mines.

That's some good mining....I hope you wore protection.

Memories. Almost opened for them at a Vancouver gig, but their van went off the road on the way up from Seattle and they cancelled. Bummer.

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
sparc



Posts: 2089
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2016,23:38   

Since he left EN&V it seems unlikely that Casey Luskin will discuss A genome-wide association scan in admixed Latin Americans identifies loci influencing facial and scalp hair features on features of scalp hair (shape, colour, greying, balding) and facial hair (beard thickness, monobrow, eyebrow thickness), unfortunately:
Quote
The genome regions associated with hair features are enriched for signals of selection, consistent with proposals regarding the evolution of human hair.


--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Dr.GH



Posts: 2333
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2016,00:57   

Quote (DiEb @ Mar. 01 2016,15:46)
Very well researched! POTW?

Seconded

:D

OK! Thirded

Err, well: Fourthed!

Edited by Dr.GH on Mar. 01 2016,23:00

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2016,02:43   

Quote (Woodbine @ Mar. 01 2016,16:11)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 01 2016,11:02)
SNIP Rich vein of TARD

Make of this what you will. Personally I needed this soundtrack to keep me sane for this trip down the tard mines.

That's some good mining....I hope you wore protection.

It was worth it - I was prevaricating instead of trying to understand namespaces in R.

There had better be something good today otherwise I'm doomed.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Jkrebs



Posts: 590
Joined: Sep. 2004

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2016,08:38   

I think this needs to be kept:

Quote
54
vjtorleyMarch 2, 2016 at 8:02 am
Hi kairosfocus,

For my part, I would like to say that I have no trouble believing your story of the levitation that you and 50 other people witnessed. I also have no trouble believing in demonic intelligences. This should be obvious to any thinking person, even arguing on purely secular grounds. After all, there’s a good chance that if intelligent beings like ourselves exist, then other intelligent beings do, too. Some of them would be far ahead of us, mentally speaking, so invisibility would not be a problem for them. The same goes for levitation. Some of these beings would be good and some would be evil, or demonic. The commenters who pronounced your story incredible need to open their minds.


As a thinking person, I find this comment nuts. Not only levitation, but invisibility. Totally crazy.

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1100
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2016,10:12   

KF:      
Quote
DS, that eyewitnesses do make mistakes does not disqualify all such testimony, nor does it give license to be dismissive to suit one’s preferences. That would destroy the legal system, our ability to learn from history


Or to put an honest spin on it, accepting the testimony of levitation lacking in corroborating physical evidence as the absolute truth would destroy the legal system, which is why the judiciary would never credit an alibi that relied on some kind of magic, or accept that (for a hypothetical instance) the dead child was killed by a demon, not by some crazed believer.

The "hyperskepticism" that the ignorant KF whines about has been a normal judicial principle in the US since the Salem witch trials granted some girls seeing visions the ability to send people to their deaths.  Their "seeing things" not part of normal experience was ultimately deemed not to be sufficient evidence in the absence of corroborating evidence.  

It's funny how Gordon states that seeing something supernatural like that for himself was far more meaningful to him than were the reports of supernatural events that other "eyewitnesses" had made.  Yet any other person who would question the testimony of the "honest" Gordon (demonizing attacks on "Darwinists" apparently not counting against his credibility) is a hyperskeptic unworthy of consideration.  Because he's saying it, I guess.

The one thing I'd grant is that I do think he saw something that appeared supernatural to him, credulous and unskeptical as he is about anything comporting with his preconceptions.  That he's a good witness about anything, given his considerable lack of ability to question his own poor judgment and lack of knowledge, is in grave doubt.  However, similar eyewitness accounts from a person who is generally much more credible would still be rightly due a good deal of skepticism, since anybody can be fooled under some conditions.

Glen Davidson

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2016,11:02   

Quote (Jkrebs @ Mar. 02 2016,14:38)
I think this needs to be kept:

 
Quote
54
vjtorleyMarch 2, 2016 at 8:02 am
Hi kairosfocus,

For my part, I would like to say that I have no trouble believing your story of the levitation that you and 50 other people witnessed. I also have no trouble believing in demonic intelligences. This should be obvious to any thinking person, even arguing on purely secular grounds. After all, there’s a good chance that if intelligent beings like ourselves exist, then other intelligent beings do, too. Some of them would be far ahead of us, mentally speaking, so invisibility would not be a problem for them. The same goes for levitation. Some of these beings would be good and some would be evil, or demonic. The commenters who pronounced your story incredible need to open their minds.


As a thinking person, I find this comment nuts. Not only levitation, but invisibility. Totally crazy.

Incredible that these invisible beings only seem to ever 'levitate' pubescent girls from devoutly religious communities. Why can't these pervy fucks ever fix my car or feed the dog?

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1100
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2016,11:18   

Quote (Jkrebs @ Mar. 02 2016,08:38)
54
vjtorleyMarch 2, 2016 at 8:02 am
Hi kairosfocus,

For my part, I would like to say that I have no trouble believing your story of the levitation that you and 50 other people witnessed. I also have no trouble believing in demonic intelligences. This should be obvious to any thinking person, even arguing on purely secular grounds. After all, there’s a good chance that if intelligent beings like ourselves exist, then other intelligent beings do, too. Some of them would be far ahead of us, mentally speaking, so invisibility would not be a problem for them. The same goes for levitation. Some of these beings would be good and some would be evil, or demonic. The commenters who pronounced your story incredible need to open their minds.

Say, on a planet near Aldebaran having had intelligent life 500 million years longer than earth has had, I might not be surprised at apparent invisibility, levitation, or some other seemingly unlikely (to earthlings) technological feat.

On Montserrat, it seems a tad less likely.

That distinction apparently goes unnoticed by VJT.

Glen Davidson

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2016,11:44   

I was going to say something like...

   
Quote
LOL, I bet these gullible fools believe in faith healing and all that shite.


...but then I remembered Dembski and, yep, of course they believe in all that shite. And now we've arrived at....

Invisible Demonic Levitators from Outer Space.

Just let that sink into your closed minds.

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2016,11:50   

Quote (Woodbine @ Mar. 02 2016,19:44)
I was going to say something like...

     
Quote
LOL, I bet these gullible fools believe in faith healing and all that shite.


...but then I remembered Dembski and, yep, of course they believe in all that shite. And now we've arrived at....

Invisible Intelligent Demonic Levitators from Outer Space.

Just let that sink into your closed minds.

Fixed. I for one welcome our new overlords (..said in a  Kent Brockman accent)

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2016,14:37   

Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 02 2016,11:50)
Quote (Woodbine @ Mar. 02 2016,19:44)
I was going to say something like...

     
Quote
LOL, I bet these gullible fools believe in faith healing and all that shite.


...but then I remembered Dembski and, yep, of course they believe in all that shite. And now we've arrived at....

Invisible Intelligent Demonic Levitators from Outer Space.

Just let that sink into your closed minds.

Fixed. I for one welcome our new overlords (..said in a  Kent Brockman accent)

That thread just keeps getting better and better. Well worth the price of admission.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2016,16:27   

Quote
63
AletaMarch 2, 2016 at 4:03 pm
vjt wrote to kf,
Quote

For my part, I would like to say that I have no trouble believing your story of the levitation that you and 50 other people witnessed. I also have no trouble believing in demonic intelligences. This should be obvious to any thinking person, even arguing on purely secular grounds. After all, there’s a good chance that if intelligent beings like ourselves exist, then other intelligent beings do, too. Some of them would be far ahead of us, mentally speaking, so invisibility would not be a problem for them. The same goes for levitation. Some of these beings would be good and some would be evil, or demonic. The commenters who pronounced your story incredible need to open their minds.

I understand that a religious person who believes that supernatural beings (God, angels, demons, whatever) might exist might also accept this explanation for levitation.

I’m not interested in discussing whether those are reasonable beliefs are not, although as a non-supernaturalist, I don’t believe them.

But I do want to respond to one part of what vjt said: As a thinking person, I think it is nonsense to say that on “purely secular grounds” there is a “good chance” that there are other intelligent beings here on earth who are “so far ahead of us, mentally speaking, [that] invisibility would not be a problem for them.”

It is one thing to have an open mind. It it is another thing to abandon critical thinking. There are no secular grounds whatsoever for thinking that invisible demonic spirits exist, much less that they spend their time levitating people.

And a reminder: I’m not interested in all the talk about eye-witness accounts and other evidence. I just want to point out that the only people willing to entertain the validity of these purported phenomena must accept the possibility of supernatural phenomena outside the scope of what is considered a secular viewpoint.

So to say that the existence of demonic intelligences “should be obvious to any thinking person, even arguing on purely secular grounds,” is flat out wrong.


linky

   
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2016,18:17   

Gordon E. Mullings (dba KairosFocus) gets spanked:
[QUOTE]KairosFocus: “something that is illogical will be incoherent; to assert or imply that something not in accord with the usual course of events is illogical is to imply that these laws obtain with logical necessity.”

No it doesn’t. If a law is logically incoherent, you modify the law. What is so difficult about that?

A world formed by a necessary being who is a greatest possible being and inherently good creator God is not logically incoherent.”

Except that this presupposes a creator God. Doing so invokes circularity. Patently obvious.

It also presumes the universality and necessity of the laws of nature arrived at inductively; but such is inherently open to rare exceptions.”

No they aren’t. If there is an exception, then the formulation of the law is incorrect. It needs to be modified or discarded.

“In this case, you overlook the possibility that the world we experience is sustained in being and operation by its Creator who for good reasons may act in unusual ways. Such as the resurrection of Jesus from the dead with 500 witnesses that could not be broken.”

Can you provide me with the sworn testimony of any of these 500? Or was this recorded many years after the event? Or their deaths?

“Further, you overlook that other beings may be more intelligent and advanced than we are (where I make no commitments whatsoever to their being morally well intentioned) and can manipulate reality in ways that we do not understand.”

No I don’t. Where are they? And how do they do it?

“I therefore suggest avoiding the position that a supernatural event or believing one has witnessed such is an ILLOGICAL point.”

When someone can explain why it is LOGICAL to blindly accept things that we don’t yet understand, I will change my position.

  
sparc



Posts: 2089
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2016,22:41   

I wonder on which grounds Kairosfocus would be dismissing other Montserratian belief systems like Obeah against which witchcraft laws were established.
link to pdf "Interning the Serpent: Witchcraft, Religion and the Law on Montserrat in the 20th Century" by Jonathan Skinner

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Lethean



Posts: 292
Joined: Jan. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2016,01:45   

Intelligent Design Man Saves Darwinist Materialist Being Attacked By Evil Intelligence From Outer Space

--------------
"So I'm a pretty unusual guy and it's not stupidity that has gotten me where I am. It's brilliance."

"My brain is one of the very few independent thinking brains that you've ever met. And that's a thing of wonder to you and since you don't understand it you criticize it."


~Dave Hawkins~

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2016,05:06   

Quote (sparc @ Mar. 03 2016,06:41)
I wonder on which grounds Kairosfocus would be dismissing other Montserratian belief systems like Obeah against which witchcraft laws were established.
link to pdf "Interning the Serpent: Witchcraft, Religion and the Law on Montserrat in the 20th Century" by Jonathan Skinner

Thanks for a great link Sparc.

It's well worth the read. I can imagine this sentence came straight out of Gordo's mouth.

Quote
...Explaining the evolution of the horse (Anon, 1972: 8), one common jumbie story on
Montserrat concludes with the judicious comment from one jumbie caught off guard
in the middle of the night by strange noises: “Well my done! Horse eye bright tonight
eh?” ...
(near the end.)

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
KCdgw



Posts: 376
Joined: Sep. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2016,08:52   

Quote
After all, there’s a good chance that if intelligent beings like ourselves exist, then other intelligent beings do, too. Some of them would be far ahead of us, mentally speaking, so invisibility would not be a problem for them.


The sheer inanity of this logical leap is breathtaking.

--------------
Those who know the truth are not equal to those who love it-- Confucius

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2016,13:10   

I don't see no invisible intelligent beings!

What?

Oh.

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2016,21:43   

Quote (Henry J @ Mar. 03 2016,21:10)
I don't see no invisible intelligent beings!

What?

Oh.

Keep it down please. The ID crew are trying to hear their invisible master's whispers right now.

God why have you abandoned them? If you don't answer I'll take it to mean you don't give a fuck.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Learned Hand



Posts: 214
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2016,00:46   

Oh, hi otangelo:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone....175620d

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2016,19:14   

well this correction should clear things right up to the commenters OH FOR THE LOVE OF PETE...

   
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2016,22:12   

Mapou keeps things in perspective....


  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2016,01:18   

Quote (Woodbine @ Mar. 05 2016,06:12)
Mapou keeps things in perspective....




--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2016,08:20   

Erdogan is a notorious atheist.

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2016,10:15   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 05 2016,16:20)
Erdogan is a notorious atheist.

Jesus, that must piss off ISIS as much as the American Taliban (aka  
Christain Fundie Theocrats).

Best thing I've heard all week.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
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