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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Uncommonly Dense Thread 2

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Hermagoras Posts: 1260 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,06:22    kairosfocus has added quasi-latching to "implicit latching."  I missed that expansion of our vocabulary earlier. -------------- "I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,06:58    O'Leary self diagnoses:   Quote I’ve covered the persecution for years. To say it is not happening is, to me, like saying 9-11 didn’t happen. It is always possible for an ideologue to construct an alternate reality - a legend in his own mind, in which the event is not happening. He likes his alternate reality, of course. Shes a little confused about the sex, of course.

FrankH Posts: 525 Joined: Feb. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,07:13    Quote (CeilingCat @ Mar. 23 2009,06:58) O'Leary self diagnoses:     Quote I’ve covered the persecution for years. To say it is not happening is, to me, like saying 9-11 didn’t happen. It is always possible for an ideologue to construct an alternate reality - a legend in his own mind, in which the event is not happening. He likes his alternate reality, of course. Shes a little confused about the sex, of course. After seeing "her", I'm not so sure she got the gender wrong. -------------- Marriage is not a lifetime commitment, it's a life sentence!

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,07:39    Quote (FrankH @ Mar. 23 2009,15:13)     Quote (CeilingCat @ Mar. 23 2009,06:58) O'Leary self diagnoses:         Quote I’ve covered the persecution for years. To say it is not happening is, to me, like saying 9-11 didn’t happen. It is always possible for an ideologue to construct an alternate reality - a legend in his own mind, in which the event is not happening. He likes his alternate reality, of course. Shes a little confused about the sex, of course. After seeing "her", I'm not so sure she got the gender wrong. Not that there is anything wrong with that. The great thing about the Fundy mindset is their ability to unselfconsciously mirror themselves. Create a powerful horizon with a deep moat immune to education, it's the hallmark of any Identity Group. Hell 70% of Arabs around the world still think 9/11 was an Israeli plot. Jonestown, Waco and all the other nutjob cults use the exact same priciples used in enabling genocide through religious propagada admirably documented in the bible. And boy for an uneducated bunch of blow hards and culturaly vacant rubes, UD Tards do a fantastic job of *not* hiding that fact. KF for example has set himself up as the worlds expert on GA's. Except he JUST CAN'T GROK THEM too many fantasy bible stories. Once you go down the line of people detouring by foot over water THEN NOTHING IS REAL anymore. Hey KF tell us about the flood I'll bet you have a convincing story on that too. <k.e.. rolls eyes> -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,07:51    wouldn't you love to hear it? snicker too bad that Dud won't come see us. gordon mullings gordon mullings gordon mullings what do you think that earns you a free laptop?  what an impotent little man.  self-impotent -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

KCdgw Posts: 376 Joined: Sep. 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,08:46    I'll give you a list of those you must ban, All must be banned with their children Carry their posts to the palace of old Hang them high let the tard flow.   KC -------------- Those who know the truth are not equal to those who love it-- Confucius

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,08:53    <snikker> Shhhh, you'll give them a complex. -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,08:55    Sorry - Crosspost. Someone get this on UD so THEY can mock him also: Mwuahahahah! Joe has measured the CSI of a cake. NOT! http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2008....1061841 Quote At 7:48 AM,  Joe G said… Measuring the CSI of a cake: Given the following recipe: • 1 cup cornmeal • 3 cups all-purpose flour • 1 1/3 cups white sugar • 2 tablespoons baking powder • 1 teaspoon salt • 2/3 cup vegetable oil • 1/3 cup melted butter • 2 tablespoons honey • 4 eggs, beaten • 2 1/2 cups whole milk • Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C), and grease a 9x13 inch baking dish. • Stir together the cornmeal, flour, sugar, baking powder, and salt in a mixing bowl. Pour in the vegetable oil, melted butter, honey, beaten eggs, and milk, and stir just to moisten. • Pour the batter into the prepared baking dish and bake in the preheated oven for 45 minutes, until the top of the cornbread starts to brown and show cracks. A simple character count reveals there are over 650 characters. Therefor the minimum information that cake will contain is just over 650 bits if each character is a bit. Wow - 'the complete works of shakespear' can't have much information in it. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

FrankH Posts: 525 Joined: Feb. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,09:15    Well, I'm still in moderation purgatory: 372 FrankH 03/23/2009 9:04 am Your comment is awaiting moderation. Question to the Admins, Why was I put on moderation? That is especially true if the other posters I was “sparring” with kept up with their personal attacks? To be blunt, are only “anto-IDists” (to be fair I’m “anti-Santa Claus” as well) going to be tagged? -------------- Marriage is not a lifetime commitment, it's a life sentence!

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,09:22    Huh... I suppose it's "a bit" too much to ask people to read what other people have done concerning the information in English text. Stuff from 1950 is just too cutting-edge to possibly show up on the religious antievolutionist radar, I guess. I mean, when one is fomenting a revolution by restating arguments published in 1802, there's only so much modernity that can be tolerated. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,09:46    Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,08:55) Sorry - Crosspost. Someone get this on UD so THEY can mock him also: Mwuahahahah! Joe has measured the CSI of a cake. NOT! http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2008....1061841 Quote At 7:48 AM,  Joe G said… Measuring the CSI of a cake: Given the following recipe: • 1 cup cornmeal • 3 cups all-purpose flour • 1 1/3 cups white sugar • 2 tablespoons baking powder • 1 teaspoon salt • 2/3 cup vegetable oil • 1/3 cup melted butter • 2 tablespoons honey • 4 eggs, beaten • 2 1/2 cups whole milk • Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C), and grease a 9x13 inch baking dish. • Stir together the cornmeal, flour, sugar, baking powder, and salt in a mixing bowl. Pour in the vegetable oil, melted butter, honey, beaten eggs, and milk, and stir just to moisten. • Pour the batter into the prepared baking dish and bake in the preheated oven for 45 minutes, until the top of the cornbread starts to brown and show cracks. A simple character count reveals there are over 650 characters. Therefor the minimum information that cake will contain is just over 650 bits if each character is a bit. Wow - 'the complete works of shakespear' can't have much information in it. why did he never do that with the peanut butter sandwich after sally_t asked him so sweetly so many times.  i mean, hell, if it's that easy.... by the way this means that Ayn Rand's books are chock full of CSI!!!!  also gulag archipelago and war and peace.  See Dick and Jane fall far below the UPB and therefore could have been generated by random genetic accidents.   i can see clearly now the rain is gone... -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,10:01    What's really lovely about "cake CSI" is that it would seem that a cake baked by a literate person following a printed recipe has loads, and about the same cake baked by an illiterate person has none at all. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,10:05    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 23 2009,10:01) What's really lovely about "cake CSI" is that it would seem that a cake baked by a literate person following a printed recipe has loads, and about the same cake baked by an illiterate person has none at all. Also (and mentioned before) is that 'a perfect sphere of aluminium of radius 1 meter' is clearly designed but has much less 'CSI' than 'a pebble' because of it's ease of description. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,10:07    Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,08:55) Sorry - Crosspost. Someone get this on UD so THEY can mock him also: Mwuahahahah! Joe has measured the CSI of a cake. NOT! http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2008....1061841       Quote At 7:48 AM,  Joe G said… Measuring the CSI of a cake: Given the following recipe: • 1 cup cornmeal • 3 cups all-purpose flour • 1 1/3 cups white sugar • 2 tablespoons baking powder • 1 teaspoon salt • 2/3 cup vegetable oil • 1/3 cup melted butter • 2 tablespoons honey • 4 eggs, beaten • 2 1/2 cups whole milk • Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C), and grease a 9x13 inch baking dish. • Stir together the cornmeal, flour, sugar, baking powder, and salt in a mixing bowl. Pour in the vegetable oil, melted butter, honey, beaten eggs, and milk, and stir just to moisten. • Pour the batter into the prepared baking dish and bake in the preheated oven for 45 minutes, until the top of the cornbread starts to brown and show cracks. A simple character count reveals there are over 650 characters. Therefor the minimum information that cake will contain is just over 650 bits if each character is a bit. Wow - 'the complete works of shakespear' can't have much information in it. Well, I posted my first-ever comment there, but I think he's disabled comments:   Quote Joe, excuse me. 665 characters including spaces do not add up to 665 bits of information in this context. Yes, until recently a character in computer programming took a bit of information storage (it's a little more now, due to formatting). No, that is not how one measures the information of this recipe. It can have no more than 665 bits of information, but we are talking about memory storage here. One measures the information of a string in nits or nats (or nepits), in other words, in terms of entropy, expressed by the average number of bits needed for storage or communication. I think you can now see that there is much redundancy in this recipe. Spaces are certainly redundancy. What are the other examples? -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,10:12    Quote gpuccio: Biological information is all the functional information which allows living beings to “work”. The simplest, and best known example is the information in protein coding genes. It is a form of digital symbolic sequence which conveys the information for the functional proteins to the translation system. In the simplest form, we call that information FSCI (functionally specified complex information). In support, gpuccio cites the following paper. Quote gpuccio: You can also find more on FSCI and a simple way of measuring it in protein families in the important paper by Durston et al: “Measuring the functional sequence complexity of proteins”, easily available on the internet. One measure of its importance is the number of cites to it in Google Scholar. After a cursory reading, the idea seems to be that by checking how much variation there is within a protein family, this gives us some idea of the amount of functional information. It does this by determining the variation at each site on the aligned sequence. If there is little variation across proteins in the database, then the site is assigned a high value in "fits". However, this study does not actually measure how much information is required *for* the function. These sequences are presumably optimized and the function is assumed by its presence in the family. Some aspects of their structure may be locked in due to their historical development. Other, nearby sequences may be capable of varying levels of function or even different functions. Multiple sites may be jointly dependent leading to computational error. Completely different sequences could also have the same functional capability. The metric does not measure what gpuccio suggests it does. Even if it did, it still wouldn't support ID. We expect highly optimized sequences to inhabit narrow confines of available sequences. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,10:39    Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,10:05) Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 23 2009,10:01) What's really lovely about "cake CSI" is that it would seem that a cake baked by a literate person following a printed recipe has loads, and about the same cake baked by an illiterate person has none at all. Also (and mentioned before) is that 'a perfect sphere of aluminium of radius 1 meter' is clearly designed but has much less 'CSI' than 'a pebble' because of it's ease of description. what about a 1-km perfect sphere of plutonium? -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,10:42    Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Mar. 23 2009,10:39) Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,10:05) Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 23 2009,10:01) What's really lovely about "cake CSI" is that it would seem that a cake baked by a literate person following a printed recipe has loads, and about the same cake baked by an illiterate person has none at all. Also (and mentioned before) is that 'a perfect sphere of aluminium of radius 1 meter' is clearly designed but has much less 'CSI' than 'a pebble' because of it's ease of description. what about a 1-km perfect sphere of plutonium? From a description standpoint (information?) it's easy. Imperfection contains more information than perfection, which is a problem for design detectives - OR IS IT? I'm thinkng it might be "fall information" from eating that bad apple. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,10:46    So, who baked the cake, anyway? I suppose we don't get to ask that? Quote Imagine this bit of dialog: (I hand you a piece of cake.) YOU: What a wonderful cake! You must give me the recipe! ME: There was no recipe. My wife made the cake. YOU: Of course there was a recipe! Just tell me what it is. ME: I tell you, there was no recipe. My wife made the cake, and that's final! YOU: But surely she puts in eggs and flour and sugar. How much of each did she put in? ME: There is no recipe! Do you doubt my wife? Are you calling my wife a liar? Listen, I'm telling you, my wife made the cake! YOU: Well, how long did she bake it in the oven? ME: Are you not listening to me? My wife made the cake! There was no oven, there was no recipe, there were no ingredients! My wife made the cake! See, she wrote right here in this note, "Dear Richard, I made this cake." Proof that there was no recipe! Yes, what good does a recipe do, anyway? Did all of the pieces of the cake have to combine simultaneously? -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,10:46    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 23 2009,17:22) Huh... I suppose it's "a bit" too much to ask people to read what other people have done concerning the information in English text. Stuff from 1950 is just too cutting-edge to possibly show up on the religious antievolutionist radar, I guess. I mean, when one is fomenting a revolution by restating arguments published in 1802, there's only so much modernity that can be tolerated. I very much doubt KF or any of the current tards on UD have the faintest idea of the significance of Dr. Claude Shannon's contribution to information theory -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,11:03    Quote (Hermagoras @ Mar. 23 2009,06:22) kairosfocus has added quasi-latching to "implicit latching."  I missed that expansion of our vocabulary earlier. Quote kairosfocus: On the evidence of the o/p circa 1986, the simplest explanation is explicit latching of letters once they go correct. Implicit latching and/or quasi-latching is also possible, and that was noted before this thread ever began. In the D-M paper, they looked at the former case, which is a legitimate case of Weasel, given the many versions floating out there. No, they were corrected on that years ago and have—just like you—refused to correct the error. There is no explicit latching, and implicit latching is the whole point of the simulation. "Quasi-latching" is apparently based on another of kairosfocus' misunderstandings of how the algorithm works. I had to go back and read through his posts. (One might think this is completely impractical, but by compressing the information, such as repeats of "oil-soaked" and "libel", it turns out there is little actual content. Just takes a few days of computer time to pre-process each post.) From the long thread: Quote kairosfocus:  [Notice how in Gen 40, we see that one letter is out, and it takes a couple more to get to the final result. Why: the distance metric is probably a bitwise Hamming metric so that a closer initial letter that is not quite correct can win at a stage. Remember, BASIC allows subtraction of letters as well as numbers, based on ASCII code bit values. I used to do that on my old department's "TRASH-80."] Apparently he thinks the algorithm works by measuring ASCII proximity to the final result. Of course, none of that is necessary. And we know from the author that that's not how it works. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,11:17    uh-oh. JoeZilla is now cranky and on a rampage in NeoPaleyville: http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-309462 -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Rrr Posts: 146 Joined: Nov. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,11:18    Quote (Zachriel @ Mar. 23 2009,11:03) Quote (Hermagoras @ Mar. 23 2009,06:22) kairosfocus has added quasi-latching to "implicit latching."  I missed that expansion of our vocabulary earlier. Apparently he thinks the algorithm works by measuring ASCII proximity to the final result. Of course, none of that is necessary. And we know from the author that that's not how it works. Ah, but that presupposes that one knows something about Teh Author, see? It's not as if He left us a note explaining what He'd done or anything, you know? Oh wait. Wait. I get this dizzy spell now and then. This time it is rather intense and quite debilitating. Excuse me for a whine. Keep on teaching the Parade Oxe!

Rrr Posts: 146 Joined: Nov. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,11:26    Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,11:17) uh-oh. JoeZilla is now cranky and on a rampage in NeoPaleyville: http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-309462 Well, he must be feeling a little challenged as one of the prime-ates (for breakfast) and as we can observe he is under a spelling dizz right now. Also. Notable is his suggestion concerning what to do with books, though:   Quote I provided you with a list of books. Read them. Is he some new kind of nazi?

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,11:50    Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Mar. 23 2009,10:39) Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,10:05) Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 23 2009,10:01) What's really lovely about "cake CSI" is that it would seem that a cake baked by a literate person following a printed recipe has loads, and about the same cake baked by an illiterate person has none at all. Also (and mentioned before) is that 'a perfect sphere of aluminium of radius 1 meter' is clearly designed but has much less 'CSI' than 'a pebble' because of it's ease of description. what about a 1-km perfect sphere of plutonium? That can be measured by the size of the resulting hole. How to get the 1-km perfect sphere together in the first place is left as an exercise for the reader, with the hope that the reader will do his experimenting in another solar system or galaxy. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,11:57    Quote (Rrr @ Mar. 23 2009,11:26) Notable is his suggestion concerning what to do with books, though:     Quote I provided you with a list of books. Read them. Is he some new kind of nazi? No, he seems to be the standard kind. Consult your baraminology text for details. -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

FrankH Posts: 525 Joined: Feb. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,12:11    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 23 2009,11:50) Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Mar. 23 2009,10:39) Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,10:05)   Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 23 2009,10:01) What's really lovely about "cake CSI" is that it would seem that a cake baked by a literate person following a printed recipe has loads, and about the same cake baked by an illiterate person has none at all. Also (and mentioned before) is that 'a perfect sphere of aluminium of radius 1 meter' is clearly designed but has much less 'CSI' than 'a pebble' because of it's ease of description. what about a 1-km perfect sphere of plutonium? That can be measured by the size of the resulting hole. How to get the 1-km perfect sphere together in the first place is left as an exercise for the reader, with the hope that the reader will do his experimenting in another solar system or galaxy. Talk about a "great design" to even get that much Pu close enough to even take a spherical shape. Honestly, I'm not even sure "beaming", ala Star Trek, all of that together could be pulled off.  Doesn't take much of that stuff to start fizzing all by itself, no "gun" required. -------------- Marriage is not a lifetime commitment, it's a life sentence!

sparc Posts: 2089 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,12:52    Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,08:55) Sorry - Crosspost. Someone get this on UD so THEY can mock him also: Mwuahahahah! Joe has measured the CSI of a cake. NOT! http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2008....1061841   Quote At 7:48 AM,  Joe G said… Measuring the CSI of a cake: Given the following recipe: • 1 cup cornmeal • 3 cups all-purpose flour • 1 1/3 cups white sugar • 2 tablespoons baking powder • 1 teaspoon salt • 2/3 cup vegetable oil • 1/3 cup melted butter • 2 tablespoons honey • 4 eggs, beaten • 2 1/2 cups whole milk • Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C), and grease a 9x13 inch baking dish. • Stir together the cornmeal, flour, sugar, baking powder, and salt in a mixing bowl. Pour in the vegetable oil, melted butter, honey, beaten eggs, and milk, and stir just to moisten. • Pour the batter into the prepared baking dish and bake in the preheated oven for 45 minutes, until the top of the cornbread starts to brown and show cracks. A simple character count reveals there are over 650 characters. Therefor the minimum information that cake will contain is just over 650 bits if each character is a bit. Wow - 'the complete works of shakespear' can't have much information in it. Does the information content change when the recipe is translated to another language and how will tis affect the taste of the cake? -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,13:06    Quote (sparc @ Mar. 23 2009,12:52)     Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,08:55) Sorry - Crosspost. Someone get this on UD so THEY can mock him also: Mwuahahahah! Joe has measured the CSI of a cake. NOT! http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2008....1061841         Quote At 7:48 AM,  Joe G said… Measuring the CSI of a cake: Given the following recipe: • 1 cup cornmeal • 3 cups all-purpose flour • 1 1/3 cups white sugar • 2 tablespoons baking powder • 1 teaspoon salt • 2/3 cup vegetable oil • 1/3 cup melted butter • 2 tablespoons honey • 4 eggs, beaten • 2 1/2 cups whole milk • Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C), and grease a 9x13 inch baking dish. • Stir together the cornmeal, flour, sugar, baking powder, and salt in a mixing bowl. Pour in the vegetable oil, melted butter, honey, beaten eggs, and milk, and stir just to moisten. • Pour the batter into the prepared baking dish and bake in the preheated oven for 45 minutes, until the top of the cornbread starts to brown and show cracks. A simple character count reveals there are over 650 characters. Therefor the minimum information that cake will contain is just over 650 bits if each character is a bit. Wow - 'the complete works of shakespear' can't have much information in it. Does the information content change when the recipe is translated to another language and how will tis affect the taste of the cake? Oh my Going Out for Dinner, was he talking about the physical cake having the "information" that the recipe allegedly has? I thought he was just talking about the recipe! *Finally get it - holds head - can't handle the hard stuff* I have a headache. Bye for now. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

dogdidit Posts: 315 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,13:16    Quote (FrankH @ Mar. 23 2009,12:11)   Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 23 2009,11:50)   Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Mar. 23 2009,10:39)   Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,10:05)     Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 23 2009,10:01) What's really lovely about "cake CSI" is that it would seem that a cake baked by a literate person following a printed recipe has loads, and about the same cake baked by an illiterate person has none at all. Also (and mentioned before) is that 'a perfect sphere of aluminium of radius 1 meter' is clearly designed but has much less 'CSI' than 'a pebble' because of it's ease of description. what about a 1-km perfect sphere of plutonium? That can be measured by the size of the resulting hole. How to get the 1-km perfect sphere together in the first place is left as an exercise for the reader, with the hope that the reader will do his experimenting in another solar system or galaxy. Talk about a "great design" to even get that much Pu close enough to even take a spherical shape. Honestly, I'm not even sure "beaming", ala Star Trek, all of that together could be pulled off.  Doesn't take much of that stuff to start fizzing all by itself, no "gun" required. Start with a larger sphere with subcritical density and then implode it. Kids, don't try this at home. -------------- "Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,13:18    Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 23 2009,13:06) Quote (sparc @ Mar. 23 2009,12:52)       Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,08:55) Sorry - Crosspost. Someone get this on UD so THEY can mock him also: Mwuahahahah! Joe has measured the CSI of a cake. NOT! http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2008....1061841           Quote At 7:48 AM,  Joe G said… Measuring the CSI of a cake: Given the following recipe: • 1 cup cornmeal • 3 cups all-purpose flour • 1 1/3 cups white sugar • 2 tablespoons baking powder • 1 teaspoon salt • 2/3 cup vegetable oil • 1/3 cup melted butter • 2 tablespoons honey • 4 eggs, beaten • 2 1/2 cups whole milk • Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C), and grease a 9x13 inch baking dish. • Stir together the cornmeal, flour, sugar, baking powder, and salt in a mixing bowl. Pour in the vegetable oil, melted butter, honey, beaten eggs, and milk, and stir just to moisten. • Pour the batter into the prepared baking dish and bake in the preheated oven for 45 minutes, until the top of the cornbread starts to brown and show cracks. A simple character count reveals there are over 650 characters. Therefor the minimum information that cake will contain is just over 650 bits if each character is a bit. Wow - 'the complete works of shakespear' can't have much information in it. Does the information content change when the recipe is translated to another language and how will tis affect the taste of the cake? Oh my Going Out for Dinner, was he talking about the physical cake having the "information" that the recipe allegedly has? Actually, it all makes sense.  If the recipe actually called for particular brands for each ingredient, you would expect the CSI to increase dramatically.   I mean, seriously, what did you think specified actually meant? -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

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