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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 2, general discussion of Dembski's site< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,16:22   

Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Mar. 20 2009,16:12)
Quote (dheddle @ Mar. 20 2009,15:38)
Which one of you is AmerikanInKananaskis? Nobody is that stupid in real life. Nobody. Not even F1 fans.

the K-K-K in the name screams puppet.  perhaps it is Davetard

I think the most interesting aspect is that Dembski has not refuted or reprimanded "kkk" for not playing nice.  I guess those new rules only apply to the other guys.  

Bigotry rules at UD and the ID tent.

Amadan - I still remember the early indoctrination Catholic Grade School stuff, and  I think you nailed the ex cathedra thing.  And good on you for pointing out the ex cathedra clause in the infalibilty ruling.  If it weren't for that, Pope's would not be invited over for poker, or football pools.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
sparc



Posts: 2089
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,16:35   

Albatrossity2
Quote
and had one of them (Paul Berg) as a teacher
Does that mean that you are part of the Protein Synthesis video? If so, what did you take on the set?

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,17:05   

Ugh.
Quote
SteveB, 03/20/2009, 2:46 pm
You’re describing animal husbandry, not blind watchmaker evolution.

SteveB, go read Origin of Species. What does Darwin spend the first part of the book talking about?
*Ugh, ugh, ugh, ugh!*

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Bueller_007



Posts: 39
Joined: Nov. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,17:22   

Looks like Allen had at least one of his posts removed for calling a Darwin = Hitler reference unfair.  Meanwhile KKK is still rocking like a hurricane.

 
Quote
13
Charlie
03/20/2009
2:31 pm
Hi Allen Macneill,
Re: #9
It’s nice to finally agree with you.


Post #9 by Allen (originally about Godwin's Law) is no longer there.

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,17:29   

My last post at UD has been gifted with a complimentary header:
 
Quote
304
Reciprocating_Bill
03/20/2009
5:04 pm

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

 
Quote
So when you said drift and deterioration, it was a flag that you did not understand the debate.


But now you know I was responding to Joseph’s misleading use of “accumulation,” and his twice repeated demand for a prediction. Given my (mis)understanding of what he intended by “accumulation” (eg., something other than accumulation), my response is correct. I don’t hear you disputing that.

The balance of your post again describes your justification for rejecting the assertion that current evolutionary theory accounts for the origins of macroevolutionary changes and complex biochemical systems.

However, the (putative) failure of an entailment of evolutionary theory does not convert to support for ID. That is because such a finding does not permit the distinction between “ID is also wrong” and “ID is correct.”

Why don’t you speak to that, just for variety.

What is required is an entailment that arises uniquely from ID, and an empirical test of that entailment such that ID, or a major tenet of ID, is put at risk of disconfirmation.

None of the above is responsive to that. Why not give it a whirl.

This on a thread concerning UD's new, "open" moderation policy. Therein the standard was enunciated: no vicious personal attacks, no comments that are defamatory or profane.

Anyone reading that thread will see that I have utterly refrained from ad hominem, defamatory or profane remarks. This despite a steady drizzle of low key (and generally irrational) insults from Jerry, Joseph and, earlier, Unpleasant Biped.

Rather, I have pressed a single, well taken query regarding the evidentiary basis of ID theory, a query that remains unanswered. However, in addition to my interest in their responses to this question, there has always been a meta-purpose to these queries.

That purpose is now served.

(Now let's wait for congratulations all around because I have "run away.")

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,17:36   

RB isn't it more fun to just piss on them than to try to engage in reasoned dialogue?

of course i have had great pleasure following your attempts to teach monkeys to solve differential equations and giraffes how to scuba dive, but we all knew that the "new" moderation policy would never be any different than the "old" moderation policy.

When you go to kicking the shit out of tards, the tard-keepers get a little bent out of shape.  Tribal tardalist protectionism.  

the tard keepers (at least... Dumbski) surely know that your points dissolve any claims about ID being science.  They just refuse to address it because you are right.  and they can't stand that.

ID=cargo cult brain in vat how do you know you exist look at your hand-ism.  

if it were even attempting to be legitimate science then it wouldn't be so fun to watch.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,18:21   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Mar. 20 2009,17:29)
My last post at UD has been gifted with a complimentary header:
     
Quote
304
Reciprocating_Bill
03/20/2009
5:04 pm

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

     
Quote
So when you said drift and deterioration, it was a flag that you did not understand the debate.


But now you know I was responding to Joseph’s misleading use of “accumulation,” and his twice repeated demand for a prediction. Given my (mis)understanding of what he intended by “accumulation” (eg., something other than accumulation), my response is correct. I don’t hear you disputing that.

The balance of your post again describes your justification for rejecting the assertion that current evolutionary theory accounts for the origins of macroevolutionary changes and complex biochemical systems.

However, the (putative) failure of an entailment of evolutionary theory does not convert to support for ID. That is because such a finding does not permit the distinction between “ID is also wrong” and “ID is correct.”

Why don’t you speak to that, just for variety.

What is required is an entailment that arises uniquely from ID, and an empirical test of that entailment such that ID, or a major tenet of ID, is put at risk of disconfirmation.

None of the above is responsive to that. Why not give it a whirl.

This on a thread concerning UD's new, "open" moderation policy. Therein the standard was enunciated: no vicious personal attacks, no comments that are defamatory or profane.

Anyone reading that thread will see that I have utterly refrained from ad hominem, defamatory or profane remarks. This despite a steady drizzle of low key (and generally irrational) insults from Jerry, Joseph and, earlier, Unpleasant Biped.

Rather, I have pressed a single, well taken query regarding the evidentiary basis of ID theory, a query that remains unanswered. However, in addition to my interest in their responses to this question, there has always been a meta-purpose to these queries.

That purpose is now served.

(Now let's wait for congratulations all around because I have "run away.")

Gee, you must have used one of their spam triggers. Yes, that must be it.
 
Quote
Spam Words - we get thousands of unsolicited advertisements trying to make their way into our comments. Online gambling, pharmaceuticals, diet plans, porn… you name it and we get it. [Okay..."natural selection!" Do you get it?] To keep this out certain letter combinations in a comment automatically dump the comment into a moderation bin (2 or 3 above). Occasionally a trusted user will unknowingly use one of these and his comment won’t show up. Don’t have a cow. If you can’t figure out why your comment didn’t show up right away this was probably the reason. Three of the most common letter sequences to trigger this are “pill”, “diet”, and “porn”. It doesn’t have to be a separate word. “Pillow” will trip it because of “pill”. We don’t publish the words we watch for so that the spammers don’t know what to avoid.


--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
1of63



Posts: 126
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,18:56   

Quote (dheddle @ Mar. 20 2009,15:38)
Which one of you is AmerikanInKananaskis? Nobody is that stupid in real life. Nobody. Not even F1 fans.

What's wrong with Formula 1?

--------------
I set expectations at zero, and FL limbos right under them. - Tracy P. Hamilton

  
Maya



Posts: 702
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,18:59   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Mar. 20 2009,17:29)
My last post at UD has been gifted with a complimentary header:
   
Quote
304
Reciprocating_Bill
03/20/2009
5:04 pm

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

   
Quote
So when you said drift and deterioration, it was a flag that you did not understand the debate.


But now you know I was responding to Joseph’s misleading use of “accumulation,” and his twice repeated demand for a prediction. Given my (mis)understanding of what he intended by “accumulation” (eg., something other than accumulation), my response is correct. I don’t hear you disputing that.

The balance of your post again describes your justification for rejecting the assertion that current evolutionary theory accounts for the origins of macroevolutionary changes and complex biochemical systems.

However, the (putative) failure of an entailment of evolutionary theory does not convert to support for ID. That is because such a finding does not permit the distinction between “ID is also wrong” and “ID is correct.”

Why don’t you speak to that, just for variety.

What is required is an entailment that arises uniquely from ID, and an empirical test of that entailment such that ID, or a major tenet of ID, is put at risk of disconfirmation.

None of the above is responsive to that. Why not give it a whirl.

This on a thread concerning UD's new, "open" moderation policy. Therein the standard was enunciated: no vicious personal attacks, no comments that are defamatory or profane.

Anyone reading that thread will see that I have utterly refrained from ad hominem, defamatory or profane remarks. This despite a steady drizzle of low key (and generally irrational) insults from Jerry, Joseph and, earlier, Unpleasant Biped.

Rather, I have pressed a single, well taken query regarding the evidentiary basis of ID theory, a query that remains unanswered. However, in addition to my interest in their responses to this question, there has always been a meta-purpose to these queries.

That purpose is now served.

(Now let's wait for congratulations all around because I have "run away.")

This is what bothers me second most[1] about UD.  The blatant lack of respect for free and open discussion and the hypocritical claims to have that respect really trigger my violent disgust mental triggers.  I have a lot of respect for you long term followers of UD who can keep your sense of humor when watching these offensive nitwits.  I keep trying to attain the same sense of enlightenment, but then Jerry or Upright Dickhead post something even more egregious.

Aside to Clive (I know you're watching):  You realize your "moderation" is really a desperate attempt to avoid criticism, right?  You realize that everyone can see that you're afraid of really examining you claims?  You also realize that, scarily enough, Davey leaving actually lowered the average understanding of science at UD?  Good, as long as everything is clear.

I would love to see a site that shadows the topics on UD, but actually supports open discussion (without the AtBC mocking that would scare off the IDiots).  I wonder if the Allen MacNeills, Reciprocating Bills, David Kelloggs, Zachriels, and all the rest of the sock puppet army stopped toying with the intellectual mice at UD[2] and would only contribute where they aren't subject to arbitrary censorship, would that pull some of the rodents out into the light?

Thoughtfully,

Maya

[1] The thing that bothers me most is that these people vote.
[2] You may now take this metaphor behind the barn and put it out of its misery.  I'm done with it.

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,19:17   

Unpleasant Biped sums up:
 
Quote

307
Upright BiPed
03/20/2009
5:36 pm
I’ve been quietly keeping score on this thread. since comment #186...

...And that leads us to Numero Uno, the Big Kahuna. The man who demands an answer, the man that lives up to his moniker, the man who missed the very first pitch, none other than Reciprocating Bill with an amazing 20 trys at hitting the ball.

What does that even mean? "The man who lives up to his moniker?" And some of that shit is downright weird. You really got to get on the ground and interact with these guys to feel how weird it is. Particularly Unpleasant Biped.

But my comment is still in moderation. I'm keeping the Blogczar thread spun up and waiting while they wrestle with the ridiculous hypocrisy of the action they are contemplating, in the very thread that announces,
Quote
As a general rule, so long as your comment is not defamatory profane, or a vicious personal attack, you can say pretty much what you want...if you keep your comments restricted to ideas and not attacking people, you should have no problems passing muster here.


--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Freelurker



Posts: 82
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,19:40   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Mar. 20 2009,20:17)
What does that even mean? "The man who lives up to his moniker?"

I take it that it refers to you repeating your question (when they couldn't answer it and wouldn't admit it.)

BTW, kudos on your tardbusting.

--------------
Invoking intelligent design in science is like invoking gremlins in engineering. [after Mark Isaak.]
All models are wrong, some models are useful. - George E. P. Box

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,19:48   



Needs a caption, I think.

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,20:12   

Adel DiBagno tells Jerry
 
Quote
You are irritating. Grow up. Learn to address people with respect and courtesy, as gpuccio does. You are not DaveScot, and if that’s whom you’re emulating, you are embarrasing yourself and the cause of ID.

And that's cold right there, being compared to DaveScot and losing badly.
Quote
Looks like an agenda has motivated devolopment of the concept of CSI. So much for scientific objectivity.

Nope, no agenda here..... ;)

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1036
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,20:19   

Maya says:

Quote
The blatant lack of respect for free and open discussion and the hypocritical claims to have that respect really trigger my violent disgust mental triggers.  I have a lot of respect for you long term followers of UD who can keep your sense of humor when watching these offensive nitwits.


I've been following UD for quite awhile and tend to be one of those that can maintain my sense of humor, but O'leary's recent ugly comments about Jane Goodall on the chimp thread have had me growling and muttering all day. I was tempted to register at UD and say a few syllables - but eeeww. I may, yet, channel my inner Orac and apply some respectful insolence...

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1036
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,20:24   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Mar. 20 2009,20:12)
Adel DiBagno tells Jerry
 
Quote
You are irritating. Grow up. Learn to address people with respect and courtesy, as gpuccio does. You are not DaveScot, and if that’s whom you’re emulating, you are embarrasing yourself and the cause of ID.

And that's cold right there, being compared to DaveScot and losing badly.
 
Quote
Looks like an agenda has motivated devolopment of the concept of CSI. So much for scientific objectivity.

Nope, no agenda here..... ;)

Shorter Adel Dibagno: I know DaveScot, and you, sir, are no DaveScot :D

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
AmandaHuginKiss



Posts: 150
Joined: Dec. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,20:43   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Mar. 21 2009,12:17)
Unpleasant Biped sums up:
   
Quote

307
Upright BiPed
03/20/2009
5:36 pm
I’ve been quietly keeping score on this thread. since comment #186...

...And that leads us to Numero Uno, the Big Kahuna. The man who demands an answer, the man that lives up to his moniker, the man who missed the very first pitch, none other than Reciprocating Bill with an amazing 20 trys at hitting the ball.

What does that even mean? "The man who lives up to his moniker?" And some of that shit is downright weird. You really got to get on the ground and interact with these guys to feel how weird it is. Particularly Unpleasant Biped.

But my comment is still in moderation. I'm keeping the Blogczar thread spun up and waiting while they wrestle with the ridiculous hypocrisy of the action they are contemplating, in the very thread that announces,
 
Quote
As a general rule, so long as your comment is not defamatory profane, or a vicious personal attack, you can say pretty much what you want...if you keep your comments restricted to ideas and not attacking people, you should have no problems passing muster here.

I think that you will find that you are on permanent moderation. Your sin is insisting that they answer questions.

  
steve_h



Posts: 544
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,20:53   

Quote
Shorter Adel Dibagno: I know DaveScot, and you, sir, are no DaveScot
Aferensis, Apologize to Adel Dibagno (eta)/Jerry!

<font=less_tough>(or congratulate him, or notgratulate him, or whatever)</font>

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,21:13   

Clean up on isle Clive:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....-309134

Quote
5

iconofid

03/20/2009

1:34 pm
Denise O’Leary:

notedscholar, you seem to be writing about a different story.

Am I the only one confused here? Who is “notedscholar”?

6

Clive Hayden

03/20/2009

4:28 pm
iconofid,

I removed noted scholar’s comment.


--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,21:45   

Quote (deadman_932 @ Mar. 20 2009,19:48)


Needs a caption, I think.

There is a con in Gil-UD. ;)

PS - nice music, huh? :p

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
steve_h



Posts: 544
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2009,21:58   

Quote
O'drearyIf you have decided that a multiverse makes more sense than a designed universe, chances are, you will rethink after you see this:

Ha ha ha, the very idea of a multiverse is laughable. There's only one universe, this one, and teh one in which God teh Designer lives in. Two universes, thsi one and teh one that  God Teh Designer lives in; ... and the one that teh people that God teh Designer wants to suffer in, at teh hands of teh apprentis Designer, go. Three universes  - but 3 is leik teh maximum! 3! Any more than that wud be teh stoopid mutli neo Darwinbotism speakin. (*)
Also, time travel is teh Brit T0ff racist (I 8's Brits 'n' Toffs, but speshly Brit Toffs); there're two many paradoxes. Better to solve 'em, all wif one Cdesigner who exists outside of time, who sees teh one tr00  future and changes it all over the places  at His whim His non paradoxy, non-Brit(spit), non-Toff, Plan.

(*) and therefore a racist. Did I mention that Darwinist are racists? I forget sometimes.

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 21 2009,00:08   

Who is Adel Dibagno?

Bad Alien God
Die Banal God
Alan Be ID God
I'D Be God Alan
Bela God and I

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
sparc



Posts: 2089
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 21 2009,00:44   

Quote
O'dreary:
If you have decided that a multiverse makes more sense than a designed universe, chances are, you will rethink after you see this:
Quote

1
Jehu
03/20/2009
10:31 pm

I don’t think every possible universe is the same thing as every conceivable universe.
Quote
2
Frost122585
03/21/2009
12:16 am

I think his point is exactly right. Basically a theory like multiverse which exponentially increases the universal probabilistic resources in order to account for specified complexity leads to an even more outragous and reduculous view of physical reality than the simple one held by the biblical literalists- and of course there is even less physical and empirical evidence that multiverse exists than that say the garden of eden did.


Observing the multitude of blog universes created by a singular Toronto based intelligent entity I am forced to conclude from analogy that the existance multiverses wouldn't contradict intelligent design. Assuming that multiverses have been as heavily connected by self-referential links I am pretty sure that multivers theory will rather be accepted as proof of design by the scientific community soon.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 21 2009,03:49   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 20 2009,12:04)
Onlookers may note the weaseling of Mullings in trying to evade the clear conclusion that he cannot bring himself to admit error.

Oh, Wes, now you have done it.  You have breached protocol:
Quote
First, on personalities: Mr Elsberry has NOT got permission to use that proper name, and his abuse of that in the teeth of to all but moral certainty of knowing that he should not do so shows just how out of order, disruptive and uncivil the Anti Evo site is.

I therefore request of you, Mr Kellogg, on basic duties of care, that you kindly inform Mr Elsberry et al of their misbehaviour and request that he take down the offending use of a personal name. If you do not do so, that would simply show enabling behaviour on your part. Especially, after you tried to ask me to go there to participate in that site’s exchanges.

and later:
Quote
PS: I have specifically requested that my proper name not be used online, to avoid spam. Thankfully, Mr Elsberry et al are in no position to damage my career by trying an “outing” game. And that is their plain and routine intent, let us not fool ourselves. SHAMELESS!

In between the two, he continues to willfully misunderstand any of your points about Weasel.  

Note to KF: No one is trying to out you, Gordo.  We are merely using your proper name that you have plastered all over your personal website.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 21 2009,05:02   

hahahaha

I haven't bothered to check out Mr. Mullings before.

Now I have to take the TARD straight since my alter ego has committed tardoside.

*


Alas, poor Dave Tard!! I knew him, HorAtBC; a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy; he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is! My gorge rises at it. Here hung those lips that I have kissed I know not how oft. Where be your gibes now?

Indeed Dave Tard has given us a Memento mori vingnette to "freedom" under religous authoritarianism.

But Mr. Mullings???? <k.e. gleefully rubs his hands together>

From positiveliberty.com

I am debating a fundamentalist from the Caribbean named Gordon Mullings, infamously known on the Evangelical Outpost comments section for writing book length posts.

He truly is the shining wit.

Batter up!

Is this 30 year old totalizator plumber Gordon him?

http://info.nassauotb.com/Newsletter%5C10.pdf

*P.S 20 or so years ago I was that good looking ......I don't know about the guy on the left though, he needs a shave.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 21 2009,05:37   

Quote
Arthur Smith
03/21/2009
5:22 am
Off topic.

I have been following the fortunes of the Intelligent Design movement for a few years now, more for the sociological interest than anything, as the arguments and claims, especially that ID is science, or that it has the potential do produce useful insights, seem, frankly unconvincing.

One thing that really weakens the case for ID most obviously for me is the Orwellian way the moderation on ID blogs is conducted. Lack of integrity, lack of honesty merely highlights the lack of content.

If you think isolating yourselves in an echo chamber is the way to advance the cause of ID, so be it. Four years ago I predicted the demise of ID as any kind of possible route for scientific research within five years. I don’t expect, from what I have witnessed here lately, to be proved wrong.

I shall be wasting no more time here. My apologies to gpuccio for not continuing with the discussion on oxytocin and FCSI. If he or anyone would like to have further contact, you can reach me at alanfox@free.fr


I know I've said it before but I am going to leave UD to its own devices from now on. Its influence on US thinking must be pretty minimal, it is non-existant beyond those shores. The content is risible, the self-delusion and downright dishonesty polluting.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 21 2009,05:51   

One doesn't get extra spam by having one's actual name mentioned, Mr. Mullings. One gets extra spam by having one's email address revealed.

Now, last night I was wondering why the normally quick-but-long-off-the-mark Mr. Mullings had been quiet for some several hours. I wrote myself a note about two possibilities:

 
Quote


A. Mullings is having a nice sulk after realizing that the situation he claimed was a sure thing in a betting game was, in fact, at least a 100,000 to 1 longshot.

or

B. Mullings is still writing an abstract of his response, which will carefully fail to address the relevant math and relevant issues, in a mere 100,000 words.



Mr. Mullings has definitively gone for Option B... though I must admit that the word count there was slightly hyperbolic.

As for the weaseling about trying to call what "weasel" does "implicit latching", I've already addressed that canard, too:

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"Latching" would require an internal mechanism with knowledge of "correct" states and the ability to protect "correct" states from mutational processes. That would be counter to what we know of biology, and, indeed, Dawkins himself thought that ascribing "latching" would be didactically wrong.

But if there is no protection of "correct" states, how in the world can there be a mechanism that will accumulate adaptive information over time where all individual traits are treated just the same? Especially when mutating from an adaptive to a maladaptive character is so much more probable than mutating an adaptive character to a maladaptive one. That is what the "weasel" program by Dawkins demonstrates, that given the use of cumulative selection, it becomes likely that an evolving population can be in a situation where adaptive information is retained. It does so in a way that promotes an understanding of why biological evolution happens in reasonable-sized populations with a small but appreciable rate of mutation of inherited information.

Yes, adaptive information is retained in populations meeting those two biologically-relevant criteria (reasonable population size and non-zero small mutation rate), but it is precisely the point at issue that "latching" is not done in order to achieve that. We have no evidence of a generic "latching" capability in biology, but we do have plenty of evidence concerning biological population sizes and mutation rates. So no one is ignoring the fact that "weasel" works; it is precisely to the point that argument ensues when certain people persistently misrepresent the mechanism by which it works. I wonder why they ignore that fact?


And, of course, Mr. Mullings, do be careful about getting involved in betting games based on your misunderstanding of "weasel"... I don't think your bank account could stand the strain.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 21 2009,06:49   

Quote
One doesn't get extra spam by having one's actual name mentioned, Mr. Mullings. One gets extra spam by having one's email address revealed.


I included my email on UD just to see if Gordon's paranoia about spam has any substance. I find hugely more spam comes via email linked to websites. I'll let you know what accumulates.

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 21 2009,07:04   

Meanwhile, Gordon Mullings admits defeat on the moderation thread. Although doesn't seem to realize it:
   
Quote
Onlookers:

The ID explanatory filter is an excellent place to begin serious thinking on the matter. Look it up in the WACs above, and in the glossary.

It is painfully plain that RB et al have never seriously and consistently thought about the logic of the EF, or about the epistemology of defeatable, empirically based reasoning and warrant on inference to best explanation.

But, surprise: that’s how real world science, forensics, history, management and a lot of other serious disciplines and arts work — by glorified common sense that seeks to find the truth while being conscious of the possibility of error.

So, again, selective hyperskepticism leads to self-referential absurdity.

Predictably.

Ever so sadly so.

Shorter: We CAN'T describe an entailment of ID such that empirical test of said entailment places ID at risk of disconfirmation. But we don't have to! That's just selective hyperskepticism! Or is it accumulated hyperskepticism?

Never mind. As ever, onlookers, we depend upon the Nixplanatory Filter to keep our thoughts pure and our souls untroubled.

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Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 21 2009,07:45   

Gordon gets narky
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YOU KNOW THAT THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN INITIALS AND A NAME. THERE IS UTTERLY NO EXCUSE FOR THE SORT OF ATTEMPTED RETALIATORY OUTING AGAINST WHISTELBLOWING THAT ANTIEVO AND MR ELSBERRY HAVE INDULGED, PERIOD. (And, as a long time participant here, you KNOW or should know the reason I have asked that my name not be used: it causes spikes in email spamming. That my name may be accessed by search in a low traffic site of the Internet [for purposes of responsibility over authorship] is no excuse for putting it up in a high traffic site to be accessible without looking for it, and in effect inviting all and sundry to launch spammming attacks or worse. And, of course there is the obvious issue that evo mat advocates routinely resort to outing and persecution. And, FYI a personal name is NOT public domain information: you nor anyone does not have a right to take it and use it as it if you were me, regardless of how you come by it, or to subject me to harassment or worse — that is called identity theft sir, or worse than mere identity theft. So, kindly stop pretending to innocence and stop trying at rhetorical games to “justify” the indefensible. That is enabling behaviour. SHAME ON YOU!)

Capital letters? He must mean it then.
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And, FYI a personal name is NOT public domain information

Huh? How so? Is he thinking of Prince?

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 21 2009,08:03   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Mar. 20 2009,17:29)
Rather, I have pressed a single, well taken query regarding the evidentiary basis of ID theory, a query that remains unanswered. However, in addition to my interest in their responses to this question, there has always been a meta-purpose to these queries.

That purpose is now served.

Yes. Very excellent work. I would note that they don't know what is meant by an entailment, distinguishing, or even by a prediction. They think that if they can guess at the answer then it's entailed. That they can wave away Common Descent as irrelevant. And what they claim will never be seen is specific. (We just have to search the entire universe for all time to confirm the prediction.) You may as well have been speaking Greek.

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You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
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