Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread

Posted: Sep. 12 2006,21:36

An amusing friendly fire incident on UD. Salvador has a twitchy trigger finger:

Quote

BarryA,

Something happened to you comment when I was moderating this thread. WordPress whacked it when I tried to delete some one else\’s comments. I\’m really sorry.

Sal

Comment by scordova — September 13, 2006 @ 12:46 am

It's hard to tell one comment from another when you're deleting so many. At least Barry deserved it, if the post by djmullen above is any indication.

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

Robert O'Brien

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Posted: Sep. 12 2006,21:49

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 12 2006,20:12)

This renders [David Heddle] basically useless as a scientist...

Wrong again, Ardo.

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Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

Robert O'Brien

Posts: 348
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Posted: Sep. 12 2006,21:55

Quote (argystokes @ Sep. 12 2006,23:08)

Here are the results from a pubmed search for "myers pz"

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Dudkin EA, Myers PZ, Ramirez-Latorre JA, Gruberg ER. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Calcium signals monitored from leopard frog optic tectum after the optic nerve has been selectively loaded with calcium sensitive dye.
Neurosci Lett. 1998 Dec 18;258(2):124-6.
PMID: 9875543 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
2: Stachel SE, Grunwald DJ, Myers PZ. Related Articles, Links
Free Full Text Lithium perturbation and goosecoid expression identify a dorsal specification pathway in the pregastrula zebrafish.
Development. 1993 Apr;117(4):1261-74.
PMID: 8104775 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
3: Myers PZ, Bastiani MJ. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Growth cone dynamics during the migration of an identified commissural growth cone.
J Neurosci. 1993 Jan;13(1):127-43.
PMID: 8423468 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
4: Myers PZ, Bastiani MJ. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Cell-cell interactions during the migration of an identified commissural growth cone in the embryonic grasshopper.
J Neurosci. 1993 Jan;13(1):115-26.
PMID: 8423467 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
5: Myers PZ, Bastiani MJ. Related Articles, Links
Abstract NeuroVideo: a program for capturing and processing time-lapse video.
Comput Methods Programs Biomed. 1991 Jan;34(1):27-33.
PMID: 2036787 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
6: Metcalfe WK, Myers PZ, Trevarrow B, Bass MB, Kimmel CB. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Primary neurons that express the L2/HNK-1 carbohydrate during early development in the zebrafish.
Development. 1990 Oct;110(2):491-504.
PMID: 1723944 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
7: Myers PZ, Eisen JS, Westerfield M. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Development and axonal outgrowth of identified motoneurons in the zebrafish.
J Neurosci. 1986 Aug;6(8):2278-89.
PMID: 3746410 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
8: Eisen JS, Myers PZ, Westerfield M. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Pathway selection by growth cones of identified motoneurones in live zebra fish embryos.
Nature. 1986 Mar 20-26;320(6059):269-71.
PMID: 3960108 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
9: Myers PZ. Related Articles, Links
Abstract Spinal motoneurons of the larval zebrafish.
J Comp Neurol. 1985 Jun 22;236(4):555-61.
PMID: 4056102 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
10: Green DM, Myers PZ, Reyna DL. Related Articles, Links
Abstract CHROMPAC III: an improved package for microcomputer-assisted analysis of karyotypes.
J Hered. 1984 Mar-Apr;75(2):143.
PMID: 6546940 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I suppose that makes him a productive graduate student and postdoc, but perhaps only one paper since becoming a full professor. I don't think this is uncommon for a someone who is primary a teacher at a small liberal arts school, and he is responsible for 4 courses. Developing an undergraduate curriculum is surely time consuming, and few researchers (at least in my department) do so. That said, it seems to me he puts more effort into Pharyngula than his research program (completely unverified).

I don't think Peezee is a full professor. In any event, don't post that PubMed search to Peezee's wikipedia article because it will be deleted.

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Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

Ogee

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Posted: Sep. 13 2006,03:42

Quote

This renders him basically useless as a scientist,

Not quite; he seems to be quite capable in his domain of physics. He is, however, a poster boy for cognitive dissonance, and prone to producing classic howlers in defense of the absolute correctness of the Bible.

He also seems to be quite conflicted about the ID crowd: he recognizes their ignorance, weak arguments and cretinous behaviour, but can't quite manage to condemn or disown them, since they're fellow members of Team Jesus.

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Posted: Sep. 13 2006,04:36

Quote

I suppose that makes him a productive graduate student and postdoc, but perhaps only one paper since becoming a full professor. I don't think this is uncommon for a someone who is primary a teacher at a small liberal arts school, and he is responsible for 4 courses. Developing an undergraduate curriculum is surely time consuming, and few researchers (at least in my department) do so. That said, it seems to me he puts more effort into Pharyngula than his research program (completely unverified).

Actually, he's at a college that emphasizes teaching, not research, and if he indeed teaches 4 courses a semester, I'm not at all surprised he doesn't publish anymore. I've known dozens of very promising academics who got so crushed by their teaching load that they practically stopped publishing anything, at least for several years, often forever. And institutions like that are where most of the professorships are. It's actually a very common phenomenon.

That said, it's hard to guess where PZ finds all the time to administer the blog.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Ichthyic

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Joined: May 2006

Posted: Sep. 13 2006,08:51

Quote

Wrong again, Ardo.

why do i keep feeling like telling RO just to STFU?

argy:

Quote

That said, it seems to me he puts more effort into Pharyngula than his research program (completely unverified).

I agree. It's not uncommon for many professors to decide they prefer teaching to pure research. If you want to actually spend more time teaching, a small school that doesn't put one under tremendous pressure to bring in grant money is the way to go.

It also tends to leave more time for other extracurricular activities, like blogging, say.

I could be wrong, but based on similar situations I am familiar with, it doesn't surprise me that PZ puts out very few papers at this point. I've found that professors who take this path typically only involve themvelves in studies that really pique their interest, since there is no pressure to put out new papers all the time.

I bet he teaches a mean dev bio class.

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"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

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Robert O'Brien

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Posted: Sep. 13 2006,14:37

Quote (Ichthyic @ Sep. 13 2006,13:51)

why do i keep feeling like telling RO just to STFU?

Cuz' you ran out of Prozac?

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Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

Richardthughes

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Posted: Sep. 13 2006,15:52

Vintage DaveTard:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1578#comments

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...Plunge asserts he is an outspoken atheist but he sure sounds like an outspoken agnostic to me. I find it a little irritating that atheist and agnostic are commonly conflated because that throws me into the atheist camp when in reality I am simply unsure one way or the other - in a no man’s land between theists and atheists.

emphasis mine

then..

http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1606

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September 13, 2006
And who are your three favorite atheists?
The latest Newsweek gives a sympathetic portrait of Daniel Dennett, Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris. The article closes with the following sentence:

If Dawkins, Dennett and Harris are right, the five-century-long competition between science and religion is sharpening. People are choosing sides. And when that happens, people get hurt.

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14638243/site/newsweek.

Filed under: Culture — William Dembski @ 2:34 pm

14 Comments »
Me, myself, and I.

I kill me sometimes!

Comment by DaveScot — September 13, 2006 @ 2:44 pm

emphasis mine again

Drop and give me twenty, flip-flopper homo-fag! - DT

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steve_h

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Posted: Sep. 13 2006,15:58

Quote

Hey Karl, if you want to talk about the substance of my posts, by all means do and I will respond. If you want to whine and nit pick rhetorical flourishes, don’t expect me to 1. respond; or 2. leave your whiny comments on the thread.

Comment by BarryA — September 13, 2006 @ 6:45 pm

Doh! I never could tell the difference between a rhetorical flourish and making up stuff about your opponents to make them look bad.

Also, BarryA removed a comment of mine on that thread consisting only of remarks he had made and which had no "whiney" additions of my own. I wonder at which point those words became unacceptable.

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Posted: Sep. 13 2006,16:21

Quote

I agree w/ you BenZ. Not only b/c not seeking God’s favor and your own instead is pretty much synonymous with sin, but to be so bold in your selfishness. I guess they help others only b/c they want to feel good themselves.

@ tinabrewer: I agree with you that this same Creator uses conscious to draw people to Him and for believer’s as a warning system of sorts. And Calvinism debate aside ie total depravity, don’t you think in the context of the quote 1) The deliberate refusal to seek God’s favor for one’s own 2) Doing good deeds for purely one’s own benefit ie “took be able to look themselves in the mirror” is not the type of “good conscious” you are talking about? Seems like the total opposite.

Comment by jpark320 — September 13, 2006 @
8:07 pm

I started to make fun of this guy, but he's probably South Korean and english is not his first language.

steve_h

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Posted: Sep. 13 2006,16:26

Someone said they like juxtaposed quotes:

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As I was revieing Strangelove’s comment history here to see if there was any good reason to keep him around I found this
http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/343#comment-7213
Strangelove and Cogzoid are the same person. Since Cogzoid was banned by Professer Dembski a year ago, and it’s been my experience that Bill’s decisions in these matters are sound ones, Cogzoid under his new name is no longer with us. Fare thee well, Cogzoid.
Comment by DaveScot — September 13, 2006 @ 4:31 am

Quote

DaveScot said,
I'm baffled as well. I would have had Carlos on the moderation list like Jack Krebs is and would have disapproved few if any of his comments.
I can't always predict what will go against the grain with Bill. Ofttimes I will disapprove a comment to protect a commenter from getting banned by Bill. He does a permanent banning while I only add names to a list of commenters that need explicit approval for each comment.

First quote from UD/1600 yesterday. Second from http://alanfox.blogspot.com/2006/09/ken-miller-is-creationist.html three days ago.

So are Dembski's decisions sound or aren't they?

BTW, following the link to Strangelove's/Cogzoid's first banning, it looks like he was banned for hypocrisy: Criticising sarcasm while employing it at the same time.

Edit: apostrophe added.

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Posted: Sep. 13 2006,16:32

I do love the Juxtaposed Quote. As I was reading your first quote I was anticipating your second.

ScaryFacts

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Posted: Sep. 13 2006,17:07

Argy and Jeannot,

A belated thanks for the answers on page 212 or so--I had to take a couple days off looking for a kidney (don't ask.)

ScaryFacts

Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Sep. 13 2006,18:27

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 13 2006,21:21)

Quote

I agree w/ you BenZ. Not only b/c not seeking God’s favor and your own instead is pretty much synonymous with sin, but to be so bold in your selfishness. I guess they help others only b/c they want to feel good themselves.

@ tinabrewer: I agree with you that this same Creator uses conscious to draw people to Him and for believer’s as a warning system of sorts. And Calvinism debate aside ie total depravity, don’t you think in the context of the quote 1) The deliberate refusal to seek God’s favor for one’s own 2) Doing good deeds for purely one’s own benefit ie “took be able to look themselves in the mirror” is not the type of “good conscious” you are talking about? Seems like the total opposite.

Comment by jpark320 — September 13, 2006 @
8:07 pm

I started to make fun of this guy, but he's probably South Korean and english is not his first language.

Darn. Otherwise, he'd be a lock for 'most incoherent theological explanation'.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

djmullen

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Posted: Sep. 13 2006,23:51

BarryA has "answered" Karl Pfluger's posting to the "Who said evolutionists aren't a barrel of laughs?" thread:

Quote

5. Hey Karl, if you want to talk about the substance of my posts, by all means do and I will respond. If you want to whine and nit pick rhetorical flourishes, don’t expect me to 1. respond; or 2. leave your whiny comments on the thread.

Comment by BarryA — September 13, 2006 @ 6:45 pm

Karl comes right back to him:

Quote

6. Barry,

Look at what you wrote:

My comment was met with howls of indignation by commentators who insisted that “science” is pristine, self-correcting and ideology-free. Nonsense.

That’s not a “rhetorical flourish”, it’s an outright fabrication. Nobody on either of those two threads said any such thing.

Face it: You created a strawman position out of whole cloth, looking for an easy target. When I called you on it, you tried to cover your tracks by editing one of my comments and deleting another. Sounds like an awful lot of trouble to go through to avoid answering questions about a mere “rhetorical flourish”.

Maybe you should take your father’s advice:

If you have a position and you can’t meet your opponent’s argument, you must work harder, and if you do that and still can’t meet your opponent’s argument you must change your mind.

Think about it.

Comment by Karl Pfluger — September 14, 2006 @ 2:19 am

Anybody want to bet on whether BarryA follows his father's advice?

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Posted: Sep. 14 2006,05:14

Quote

Face it: You created a strawman position out of whole cloth, looking for an easy target. When I called you on it, you tried to cover your tracks by editing one of my comments and deleting another.

Barry: "Your honor, I'd like Karl Pfluger's question stricken from the record!"

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

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Posted: Sep. 14 2006,05:30

Quote

In other words, make a ribosome and a DNA molecule in a proverbial test tube without using intelligently designed assembly procedures or precursors. That, while not falsifying ID per se, makes ID an unnecessary requirement in the origin of organic life as observed on this planet.

Comment by DaveScot — September 14, 2006 @ 6:18 am

Can someone please tell me what action a scientist could take, which would not count as an intelligently designed procedure, or what ingredients he could use, which would not count as an intelligently designed precursor?

Richardthughes

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Posted: Sep. 14 2006,05:32

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 14 2006,10:30)

Quote

In other words, make a ribosome and a DNA molecule in a proverbial test tube without using intelligently designed assembly procedures or precursors. That, while not falsifying ID per se, makes ID an unnecessary requirement in the origin of organic life as observed on this planet.

Comment by DaveScot — September 14, 2006 @ 6:18 am

Can someone please tell me what action a scientist could take, which would not count as an intelligently designed procedure, or what ingredients he could use, which would not count as an intelligently designed precursor?

If you force my god out of this gap, there are plenty more for me to hide him in...

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dhogaza

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Posted: Sep. 14 2006,11:12

Quote

Yet another nail in the Darwinian coffin. The problems with the theory are mounting almost daily and becoming more and more severe in more and more areas. The trend is clear. The only thing propping it up is increasingly desperate and fantastic speculation — the sign of a paradigm in crisis and on the verge of meltdown.

Methinks there's a reason Gil Dodgen wrote a checkers program rather than one for, say, Go ...

keiths

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Posted: Sep. 14 2006,11:36

Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 14 2006,10:32)

If you force my god out of this gap, there are plenty more for me to hide him in...

I like it, Richard. Sort of a "Hermit God of the Gaps."

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

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Posted: Sep. 14 2006,12:20

Quote (keiths @ Sep. 14 2006,16:36)

Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 14 2006,10:32)

If you force my god out of this gap, there are plenty more for me to hide him in...

I like it, Richard. Sort of a "Hermit God of the Gaps."

Maybe more like a Whack-a-Mole game.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Aardvark

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Posted: Sep. 14 2006,13:01

Quote

#

DaveScot: “I find continuous intervention to be inelegant but it remains a possibility.”

Newtonian physics was more elegant than QM. I don’t see how elegance is logically relevant. Seems more like an emotional/intuitive response to me, and thus without any rational usefulness.

Seems to me that if there is a designer(s) it may be smart enough to engineer life, but not smart enough to completely front-load it. Why does it have to be all frontloading or nothing?

Comment by mike1962 — September 14, 2006 @ 3:30 pm

Duh

Looks like there's some controversy about IDC. This must mean that it is about to collapse.

But collapse from what exactly?

Bebbo

Posts: 161
Joined: Dec. 2002

Posted: Sep. 14 2006,13:06

Quote (jujuquisp @ Sep. 14 2006,17:04)

God, DaveTard is making me sick. The crap he posts at UD is unbelievable. How can anyone be so stupid and yet so righteous? I can't take his garbage anymore. It is actually making me physically angry to see someone act so childish at that blog, yet that person is practically worshipped by the masses of bleating sheep there. The anger and loss of faith in humanity is intruding in my daily life. Maybe I need UD rehab and DaveTard Detox. Any suggestions for me?

I think the main problem with DaveScot is his ego. He sneers at scientists but never loses an opportunity to tell everyone about software he wrote, or how he made lots of money at Dell, or that he's retired with a yacht. It seems that the "power" he has on UD has gone to his head. What a sad way to spend one's retirement, as hanger on to a minor academic at a God college.

J. G. Cox

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Posted: Sep. 14 2006,13:23

Quote

Can someone please tell me what action a scientist could take, which would not count as an intelligently designed procedure, or what ingredients he could use, which would not count as an intelligently designed precursor?

None, which is one reason why none of the supposed 'tests' of ID (e.g. put a bunch of bacteria in a nutrient solution and wait for a flagellum to evolve) actually test anything. Because science requires scientists, they can always retreat to that position.

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Posted: Sep. 14 2006,14:21

J.G., If it makes you feel any better, ponder how pathetic they are. This is the gross and scope of our opposition. A few arrogant laymen, posting their fevered thought experiments on a few blogs, congratulating themselves on how Galilean they are, and predicting victory any day now.

Juju, maybe you need a break. Before you have a break.

keiths

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Posted: Sep. 14 2006,20:52

Jujuquisp,

My suggestion is to join the ACLU and/or AU, or to make another donation if you're already a member.

I joined both organizations largely because of what I witnessed at UD.

Someone once suggested making a donation to the ACLU in DaveScot's name, making sure that he was notified of the gift. Sounds like a nice way to do some good and tweak Dave at the same time.

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

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Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Sep. 14 2006,21:01

Quote (keiths @ Sep. 15 2006,02:52)

Someone once suggested making a donation to the ACLU in DaveScot's name, making sure that he was notified of the gift. Sounds like a nice way to do some good and tweak Dave at the same time.

It would also trigger an avalanche of liberal junk mail into his mailbox. Amnesty, Sierra, you name it, join the ACLU and you'll get a pile of it. They're not entirely worthless, though. I slice them open looking for cool return address labels.

(BTW, I'm not advocating this hijinx)

Altabin

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Posted: Sep. 15 2006,03:22

Dennis's rant about the woeful standards of secondary education is slightly undercut by her inability to spell:

Quote

I’m old-fashioned, so I believe students should earn the right to dissent from their teachers’ views. The principle way they should earn it is by being good students.

By the way, snarkiness aside, can you follow her rather surprising reasoning in the rest of this post? She seems to be saying that, despite the fact that "Darwinism’s a dead duck" promoted by the Evil Atheist Conspiracy, students' parents should not be trying to introduce criticism of it into schools, lest it further undermine the respect the little punks have for their teachers. Do I have that right?

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bourgeois_rage

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Posted: Sep. 15 2006,04:46

Quote

That, by the way, is one reason why I have never been enthusiastic about the initiatives taken by various American school boards to warn students away from Darwinian evolution. Yes, yes, Darwinism’s a dead duck. It is promoted principally for ideological purposes, and anti-religious ones at that. In the form of social Darwinism, it has some stinky associates and in the form of persecution of non-Darwinian scientists, it has a stinky history. So I completely understand why the school boards and parents are concerned, and I wish them well.

But , all that said, I maintain my objections for the following reason: We do no favor to students who cut classes to smoke in the can when we act as though they can easily understand problems with Darwinism. These are the same kids who need a calculator to add up a shopping bill, don’t know whether Canada is north or south of the United States, can’t name the three branches of the US government, and are not disciplined for being rude to teachers. I could go on, but why bother?

Yeah, crazy. These kids are so dumb, why try to confuse them with things like, "Jesus is Lord!" and "Goddidit?"

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Overwhelming Evidence: Apply directly to the forehead.

Ogee

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