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Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,07:30   

Arden Chatfield concluded:

Quote

It'll have to be rammed through by corrupt judges and politicians.
   


And creationists with tire irons, apparently.

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,07:39   

Quote

May 25, 2006
ACLU Supports Vile Protesters at Military Funerals


Quote
   ACLU lawsuit challenges Ky. funeral-protest law

   By The Associated Press
   05.02.06
   FRANKFORT, Ky. — Portions of a new state law intended to prevent protesters from disrupting funerals for soldiers killed in Iraq are unconstitutional and should be struck down, the American Civil Liberties Union said in a federal lawsuit filed yesterday.

   The ACLU filed suit in U.S. District Court in Frankfort, challenging sections of the law that the group claims go too far in limiting freedom of speech and freedom of expression.

   The lawsuit puts the ACLU, which routinely handles discrimination cases involving gays and lesbians, on the same side as Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan., which is known for its anti-gay protests.

   The law, which also applies to memorial services, wakes and burials, was aimed at members of that church who have toured the country protesting at military funerals. The church members claim the soldiers’ deaths are a sign that God is punishing America for tolerating homosexuality.

   The ACLU filed the lawsuit on behalf of Bart McQueary, a Mercer County man who has protested alongside the church members on three occasions. McQueary had no listed telephone number and couldn’t be reached for comment.

   U.S. District Judge Karen Caldwell has been assigned to hear the case. The ACLU already has asked her to grant a preliminary injunction that would allow funeral protests to continue.

   “Mr. McQueary clearly has the right to express his message in a non-disruptive manner, even if others disagree with him,” said Lili S. Lutgens, an attorney for the ACLU in Louisville.

   The law is so broad, Lutgens said, that people could unknowingly violate it by whistling as they walk down a sidewalk, or by stopping to chat on a public sidewalk near a funeral home. She said the law also could prevent pro-military groups from standing outside memorial services to counter the Kansas demonstrators.

   “The commonwealth simply cannot prohibit free expression because it doesn’t like certain activities, nor can it suppress the speech of groups or individuals because it doesn’t like the message,” Lutgens said.

   Gov. Ernie Fletcher signed the measure into law in March in an attempt to prevent disruptions at military funerals.

   Protesters within 300 feet of such services would be guilty of first-degree disorderly conduct, punishable by up to a year in jail. The bill also would prevent protesters from using bullhorns to try to disrupt the services.

   Members of the Westboro church have protested at funerals for members of the Kentucky National Guard and U.S. Army soldiers based at Fort Campbell who have been killed in action.

   At their protests, members of the Kansas group carry such signs as “Thank God for IEDs,” the improvised explosive devices used by insurgents in Iraq.

   Fletcher spokesman Brett Hall said yesterday that the governor hadn’t seen the lawsuit. “We’ll take a look at it and move from there,” he said.

   However, Hall said, mourning families deserve privacy and dead soldiers deserve reverence.

   “The public should respect their dignity in a very difficult time,” he said. “That’s why this law was passed. It’s inconceivable why anyone would want to protest at a military funeral while family members are there.”

Found at First Amendment Center
Filed under: Legal, Courts, Laws, Constitution — DaveScot @ 12:01 pm


So Davescot unintentionally makes the point that the ACLU supports the rights of nutty religious groups? Is he trying to suggest that this proves the ACLU is somehow anti-military? Would even the dimbulbs at Uncommonly Dense believe that? We'll have to watch and see.

   
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,08:02   

Maybe DaveTard thinks the group protesting the funerals aren't True Christians™, so the ACLU helping them is really just the ACLU helping a group that offends the True Christian Faith™ and therefore the ACLU is still evil.

  
John_H



Posts: 6
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,08:04   

Westboro Baptist "Church"? Is that Fred "God Hates Fags" Phelps's outfit?

The Church of Scientology, Church of Subgenius and Church's Shoes are all closer to the Christian church than that crowd. Oh, and Charlotte Church.

Never mind suing them for their revolting protests, someone ought to sue them for breaking trades descriptions laws.

   
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,08:16   

Stop the ACLU

Here's a particularly boneheaded comment:
Quote
1.  Please, DaveScot, do not associate ID with right-wing politics. ID is a matter whose importance transcends politics, and whose association with politics of either stripe only clouds the issues and makes for an easy guilt-by-association tactic by detractors.

Comment by jaredl — May 25, 2006 @ 12:53 pm

Why is it boneheaded?
1.  Asking DaveTard to stop associating ID with right-wing politics would be like letting the atheist liberal homos win.
2.  All ID has is politics.  The only traction ID can gain is through political (and religious, but I lump them together) means.

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,09:28   

http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1160#comments

Quote
2.  jaredl is completely correct.

DaveScot, it might be a good idea to review the information which you yourself posted at http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/comment-policy/moderation/, which says, in part:

“This blog is for me (Dembski) mainly to get out news items ABOUT THE ID MOVEMENT and my work in particular.” (emphasis mine)

For those of us who may want the scoop on the latest hot-button right-wing political issue, there are plently of places on the web to get it. The rest of us are interested in ID. Please make an effort to stay on topic.

Comment by SteveB — May 25, 2006 @ 2:24 pm

Please tell me there's a banination coming on!

  
slpage



Posts: 349
Joined: June 2004

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,09:32   

Quote (Aardvark @ May 22 2006,14:47)
Quote

  5.

     You people are retarded.

     The email is a fake and you’re an idiot for not realizing that.

     Good show, Professor. This type of thing does wonders for your credibility.

     Comment by mamoulian — May 22, 2006 @ 2:38 pm


Probably won't last long either...

I found that one especially on-target.
:D

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,09:35   

Hee hee hee.

It seems that even UDers are fed up with Dave's anti-ACLU delirium.

Let's see now if his gargantuan ego allows him to STFU... Any bets?

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
slpage



Posts: 349
Joined: June 2004

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,09:44   

Quote (Drew Headley @ May 23 2006,15:00)
Before reading this quote, please turn off your irony meters.

Turned off?

Good.

Quote
It never ceases to amaze me how many blogs write long, vitriolic attacks on Dembski whenever he posts anything. Just goes to show you, one side of this debate is running out of ideas of their own…

Comment by Qualiatative — May 23, 2006 @ 1:52 pm

I wonder if those stooges realize how utterly bassackwards they are...

It would seem not.

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,09:45   

Uh oh, more dissent on the anti-ACLU screed:

Quote
3.  Agreed. This blog’s value is in its focus and in what should be its example of excellence on its topic.

Comment by TomG — May 25, 2006 @ 2:32 pm

Although, I'm not sure how one can excellently focus on a non-existent theory, but whatever...

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,09:47   

Quote (John_H @ May 25 2006,13:04)
Westboro Baptist "Church"? Is that Fred "God Hates Fags" Phelps's outfit?

The Church of Scientology, Church of Subgenius and Church's Shoes are all closer to the Christian church than that crowd. Oh, and Charlotte Church.

Not to mention the Landover Baptist Church, Church's Fried Chicken, and the late Senator Frank Church of Idaho.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,10:34   

One of Dave's poodles jumps to his defense...
Quote
It seems there are two aspects to ID — the first is science in that the empiracle, objective evidence is on the side of a designer (regardless of whom or what the designer is.)

The second is that the opposition to ID is not science but political/cultural/religious. This is where the ACLU is relevant.

If the courts allowed questions of creation to be treated in public schools as they had from before the Constitution’s ratification through 1963, this debate might not be as acrimonious or unproductive.

Comment by tribune7 — May 25, 2006 @ 3:01 pm


...But fails to make any sense whatsoever.

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,10:40   

Dunno if anyone's had fun with this one:

(from http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1147#comments)

"It would be really ironic if your restraint was due to knowing you’d be censored if you didn’t restrain yoursef. -ds "

Woah! Move over Alannis Morissette!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
beervolcano



Posts: 147
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,10:42   

http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1157

Quote
“Good science identifies weak links in what is known. Science should acknowledge the shortcomings in evolutionary science, especially as regards what is known about transition species.”

It does, but you being a molecular geneticist and all wouldn't know that.

Quote
the notion that we evolved by random mutation from a pool of amino acids requires more ‘faith’ than I am capable of mustering,” he says.

Yet, a wooden boat carrying all the species of the world while a god in the sky flooded the entire planet sounds pretty reasonable.

Or, maybe you don't believe that part of the Bible. But you must believe that a man was born of a virgin, then rose from the dead to take away your sins...at least in order to be head of the IDEA club.

--------------
("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."--Jonathan Swift)

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,10:46   

"I was curious and so I went back and looked at the last several of DaveScot’s posts. Among these, 3 have been either explicit or implicit calls to “Stop the ACLU.” We’ve learned about “Kevin Padian hating fundamentalists,” and that Judge Jones apparently belongs in the same category with a carefully cherrypicked list of former Time Men of the Year which includes Hitler, Stalin, Krushchev, and Khomeini. And, we’ve learned that its important that members of the Marine Corps be allowed to pray.

The point is not whether I agree or disagree with any of this. The point is that any student in a freshman composition class can identify all of this as wildly off topic.

Dr Dembski: You’re not doing yourself or the cause of ID any favors by continuing to grant DaveScot a forum to articulate his parochial, right-wing political agenda on a site which has your name and likeness in the banner, and which perports to be about ID.

Thanks,

Comment by SteveB — May 25, 2006 @ 3:43 pm "

Bwahahahahahahah!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
incorygible



Posts: 374
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,10:47   

Quote
It seems there are two aspects to ID — the first is science in that the empiracle, objective evidence is on the side of a designer (regardless of whom or what the designer is.)


Wow.  They can't even keep the miracle out of empirical when typing the word.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,10:53   

Quote (incorygible @ May 25 2006,15:47)
Wow.  They can't even keep the miracle out of empirical when typing the word.

Post of the week.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,11:09   

Quote (incorygible @ May 25 2006,15:47)
 
Quote
It seems there are two aspects to ID — the first is science in that the empiracle, objective evidence is on the side of a designer (regardless of whom or what the designer is.)


Wow.  They can't even keep the miracle out of empirical when typing the word.


This is the line you're looking for:

"You can't spell 'empirical' without 'miracle'!"

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
keiths



Posts: 2195
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,11:40   

Having humiliated himself by attacking the ACLU over a bogus urban legend, Davey now feels compelled to justify himself by digging up and posting as many ACLU-related issues as possible.

Knowing that people like DaveTard exist is strong motivation to join the ACLU.  I joined the ACLU (and Americans United) after Dover, but if I hadn't done it then, I'd be doing it now.

Keep up the recruiting efforts, Davey!

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Colin



Posts: 11
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,11:42   

Quote
Not everything is a slippery slope. Common decency can also be preserved with reasonable laws. When a society generally agrees on a standard, it is okay to make that into a law which preserves that basic standard against assault.


Shorter tinabrewer:

"Come on, the Constitution doesn't apply to unpopular minorities.  These are bad people, the First Amendment wasn't written for them!"

  
clamboy



Posts: 299
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,11:49   

Yep, next time the ACLU asks me for a donation above my membership dues, I think I'll send them a bog ol' check, and ask them to send a thank you note to davescot.

As a new member here, I would like to thank you all for this thread. I have no interest in reading Uncommon Pissant, there are only so many hours in the day. However, coming here every morning to see the latest foolishness puts a smile on my face as I wait for my tea to fully steep.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,12:00   

Quote
#6

I was curious and so I went back and looked at the last several of DaveScot’s posts. Among these, 3 have been either explicit or implicit calls to “Stop the ACLU.” We’ve learned about “Kevin Padian hating fundamentalists,” and that Judge Jones apparently belongs in the same category with a carefully cherrypicked list of former Time Men of the Year which includes Hitler, Stalin, Krushchev, and Khomeini. And, we’ve learned that its important that members of the Marine Corps be allowed to pray.

The point is not whether I agree or disagree with any of this. The point is that any student in a freshman composition class can identify all of this as wildly off topic.

Dr Dembski: You’re not doing yourself or the cause of ID any favors by continuing to grant DaveScot a forum to articulate his parochial, right-wing political agenda on a site which has your name and likeness in the banner, and which perports to be about ID.

Thanks,

Comment by SteveB — May 25, 2006 @ 3:43 pm



Are you threatening me? I am the great Daveholio!  -dh

   
keiths



Posts: 2195
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,12:25   

Quote (clamboy @ May 25 2006,16:49)
As a new member here, I would like to thank you all for this thread. I have no interest in reading Uncommon Pissant, there are only so many hours in the day. However, coming here every morning to see the latest foolishness puts a smile on my face as I wait for my tea to fully steep.

Entertainment is the one good thing to come out of the ID movement, and UD is a prodigious source of it.  Many of us are addicted.  If this comedic wellspring ever dries up, I think we'll have to put stevestory on methadone.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
steve_h



Posts: 544
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,12:32   

Quote (Richardthughes @ May 25 2006,15:46)
"I was curious and so I went back and looked at the last several of DaveScot’s posts. Among these, 3 have been either explicit or implicit calls to “Stop the ACLU.”
To the first of which, Denski  replied
     
Quote (Demsbski @ 22may)
Right on!

         
Quote
We’ve learned about “Kevin Padian hating fundamentalists,”

The whole Kevin Padian thing was started by Denski. The posts no longer appear (If I were to be charitable, I would assume that it's because KP asked Denski to remove the offending comments. If I were to be less charitable, based on the two-faced 'apology' I might have assumed it was removed as part of the cover up of embarrassing mistakes. Threads 1109, 1113 and 1114 are no more;  PT was mostly down that day; and there was no anti-blackhole mirror back then; so I have no quotes for this one. IIRC, it was all based upon the allegation that an observation that an audience was largely "young, asian and fundamentalist" was the same thing as saying "All asians are young fundamentalists" or something, although it wasn't spelled out quite like that. He just observed that it was somehow "racist" and left the mob to determine the finer detail.
         
Quote
and that Judge Jones apparently belongs in the same category with a carefully cherrypicked list of former Time Men of the Year which includes Hitler, Stalin, Krushchev, and Khomeini. And, we’ve learned that its important that members of the Marine Corps be allowed to pray.


To which Denski comments:
         
Quote
Thanks, Dave, for contextualizing this milestone in our proper appreciation of important personages. . . . What a crock.


       
Quote
The point is not whether I agree or disagree with any of this. The point is that any student in a freshman composition class can identify all of this as wildly off topic.

Dr Dembski: You’re not doing yourself or the cause of ID any favors by continuing to grant DaveScot a forum to articulate his parochial, right-wing political agenda on a site which has your name and likeness in the banner, and which perports to be about ID.

Thanks,

Comment by SteveB — May 25, 2006 @ 3:43 pm "

Bwahahahahahahah!


DaveTard is not OT:          
Quote
This blog is for me mainly to get out news items about the ID movement and my work in particular.
 Denski's work just happens to include character assassination and uncritical repetition of libellous material in addition to his bread and butter misapplication of mathematics to religious topics.

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,12:38   

Quote
More ID science please - less politics.


Do you think this person realizes they're calling for UD to shut down? :)

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,12:41   

Quote
If this comedic wellspring ever dries up, I think we'll have to put stevestory on methadone.

I'm already on 5,000 CCs of Ethanol. :-)

   
Drew Headley



Posts: 152
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,12:43   

Quote
#

“But to sum up: if error control gives a natural advantage, that must mean the Darwinian mechanism doesn’t give organisms a natural advantage. If the Darwinian mechanism is true, the error control system should not exist. But it does” –geoffrobinson

Many comments in this thread have followed a similar line of reasoning. We should extend it to other aspects of our life. My doctor, for instance, recommends that I lower my salt intake because too much sodium is detrimental to my health. Based on my biochemical and physiological training, however, I’m certain this is pure rubbish. Sodium is an essential component in many biochemical and physiological processes. If I need sodium, how can sodium also detrimental? It’s simply not possible that something can be both good and bad at once. His sodium-disease theory (SDT) is logically flawed and inconsistent with abundant evidence that sodium is necessary for biological functions. I therefore have opted to dismiss his advice altogether.

Comment by great_ape — May 25, 2006 @ 1:42 pm


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh man, he knows nothing about physiology. Apparently, he has never heard of homeostatsis or equilibrium.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,12:48   

Dàmn, Drew, you might have found the dumbest thing ever posted on UD.

Lemme ask people to put links to their excerpts, so others can find them more easily.

   
Drew Headley



Posts: 152
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,12:54   

Quote (stevestory @ May 25 2006,17:48)
Dàmn, Drew, you might have found the dumbest thing ever posted on UD.

Lemme ask people to put links to their excerpts, so others can find them more easily.

The comedy is made even better by the fact that he just might kill himself.

http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1155#comment-40085

   
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,13:04   

Steve:
 
Quote
IIRC, it was all based upon the allegation that an observation that an audience was largely "young, asian and fundamentalist" was the same thing as saying "All asians are young fundamentalists" or something, although it wasn't spelled out quite like that.

Actually, it was more like:  
Quote
"young", "Asian", and "fundamentalists".

That's right, he was quoting separate words that weren't even directly connected in Padian's phrasing.

It's ridiculous, of course, but then again so is Denski.  :)

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
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