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Febble Posts: 310 Joined: Jan. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2014,06:29    Quote (OgreMkV @ Feb. 28 2014,08:00) Here's the criag carrol debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?f....tAwH33k Well, that was a pretty unambiguous win for Carroll.

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2014,07:41    Quote (Febble @ Mar. 01 2014,06:29) Quote (OgreMkV @ Feb. 28 2014,08:00) Here's the criag carrol debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?f....tAwH33k Well, that was a pretty unambiguous win for Carroll. You know, I have a good grounding in the majority of sciences. I've spoken to biochemists, paleontologists, even a physicist at one point.  I've been able to hold my own with them, ask intelligent questions and understand complex, technical answers. I read journals at least weekly. After listening to Carroll, I'm woefully behind in my understanding of the current state of cosmology, but that happens. I've been concentrating on Cambrian evolution for the last few months/years. But I am totally honest when I say half the time I couldn't understand what the hell Craig was saying. It reminded me of that guy on In living Color who would string together words that obviously didn't belong together, just to sound smart. Craig struck me the same way. He didn't care whether anyone understood him. He just wanted to sound smart. Sort of the ultimate appeal to authority. "I'm smart and you don't understand me and are too scared to ask questions on the facts I'm saying because you will look stupid. Therefore, I win."   Even the judge commented on it subtly. Mentioning that everyone is looking up Boltzman Brains on their iPhones. Craig's argument didn't change either. He just said the same thing, with digs at Carroll. I can only imagine what a lay audience was thinking. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2014,11:49    We don't need Boltzmann Brains. We have Logical Depth. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2014,14:14    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 01 2014,11:49) We don't need Boltzmann Brains. We have Logical Depth. Never sold, but never remaindered either.

steve_h Posts: 544 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2014,15:38    Adam and Eve and Ann Gauger   Quote Here’s a vid of Gauger arguing a similar point in a different venue: Said venue is of course the Disco'tute's fake lab / real stock photo. Axel Quote If only the materialists didn’t come across as such charlatans in the discussions here on UD.

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2014,16:14    Quote (steve_h @ Mar. 02 2014,15:38) Adam and Eve and Ann Gauger   Quote Here’s a vid of Gauger arguing a similar point in a different venue: Said venue is of course the Disco'tute's fake lab / real stock photo. Axel   Quote If only the materialists didn’t come across as such charlatans in the discussions here on UD. But as Barb points out in reply 3: Quote Yet, embodied in Christianity are the highest moral principles that can be found anywhere. Is it possible that the finest teachings as to truth and honesty could originate with something that is basically false?

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 02 2014,16:46    All science etc... -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

timothya Posts: 280 Joined: April 2013 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2014,00:26    From UD via a commenter called Chalciss: Quote . . . These debates serve a purpose when they can get a believer to think and get the thinker to believe. . . . Is the dichotomy in the second paragraph really what he/she meant? -------------- "In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread." Anatole France

BillB Posts: 388 Joined: Aug. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2014,01:26    KF Quote One of the major problems I have with atheistical arguments is their habitual reliance on misrepresentations and caricatures, backed up by selective hyperskepticism rather than addressing comparative difficulties. Not to mention turnabout accusations and personalities, thuggishness and enabling behaviour. That isn't the sound of clapping KF, it is the sound of irony meters popping.

Quack Posts: 1961 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2014,03:14    Quote (BillB @ Mar. 03 2014,01:26) KF   Quote One of the major problems I have with atheistical arguments is their habitual reliance on misrepresentations and caricatures, backed up by selective hyperskepticism rather than addressing comparative difficulties. Not to mention turnabout accusations and personalities, thuggishness and enabling behaviour. That isn't the sound of clapping KF, it is the sound of irony meters popping. That isn't just KF's problem, it is a most characteristic problem shared by most if not all creationist (ID included) fundamentalists. They have cataracts in their mental eye; they are unable to see the difference between atheism and the application of scientfic method and thinking to all aspects of nature. It remains to be proven that biology should be extempt from scientific thought and investigation. A telling fact is that all biological knowlege stems from scientific discovery. Nothing from creationism regardless of how it is cloaked. -------------- Rocks have no biology.               Robert Byers.

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2014,07:33    Quote (Quack @ Mar. 03 2014,11:14) Quote (BillB @ Mar. 03 2014,01:26) KF   Quote One of the major problems I have with atheistical arguments is their habitual reliance on misrepresentations and caricatures, backed up by selective hyperskepticism rather than addressing comparative difficulties. Not to mention turnabout accusations and personalities, thuggishness and enabling behaviour. That isn't the sound of clapping KF, it is the sound of irony meters popping. That isn't just KF's problem, it is a most characteristic problem shared by most if not all creationist (ID included) fundamentalists. They have cataracts in their mental eye; they are unable to see the difference between atheism and the application of scientfic method and thinking to all aspects of nature. It remains to be proven that biology should be extempt from scientific thought and investigation. A telling fact is that all biological knowlege stems from scientific discovery. Nothing from creationism regardless of how it is cloaked. Creationism's only redeeming scientific quality is to bring us the meme of the cheap tuxedo. Scientists don't have to worry much, third world tailors on the other hand must be up in arms. -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

timothya Posts: 280 Joined: April 2013 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2014,04:46    From KF at UD on events in the Ukraine: Quote F/N: I trust the above, in light of the OP, also suffices to expose the destructive, deceitful, toxic nature of yet another increasingly common tactic: turnabout, blame the targetted victim accusations. Unfortunately, this seems to be a favourite stratagem of the Darwinist fever swamp denizens, and even those who are more genteel are prone to use it in subtler form, as Mr Nye plainly did. TSZ, I trust you are listening. KF Apparently you lot down there in the fever swamp are the cause of a Russophile insurrection in the Crimea. How did you manage that? I wonder which rabbit hole the "Putin is a bulwark against atheist immorality" trope suddenly disappeared down. -------------- "In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread." Anatole France

Lethean Posts: 292 Joined: Jan. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2014,05:32    Quote (BillB @ Mar. 03 2014,01:26) KF     Quote One of the major problems I have with atheistical arguments is their habitual reliance on misrepresentations and caricatures, backed up by selective hyperskepticism rather than addressing comparative difficulties. Not to mention turnabout accusations and personalities, thuggishness and enabling behaviour. That isn't the sound of clapping KF, it is the sound of irony meters popping. "habitual reliance on misrepresentations and caricatures" This one always gets me. It reminds me of "Socrates" over at TR who constantly makes the same claim. Whenever someone poses a question or makes a statement that illustrates how what they have asserted is false by extending that persons thought/idea/assertion further in order to demonstrate that it's incorrect, their defense is to frequently claim that they are being misrepresented. They never seem to look for where they are wrong, rather they are searching for ways to entrench their doubt concerning the ideas they disagree with. It makes me sad sometimes.  :( -------------- "So I'm a pretty unusual guy and it's not stupidity that has gotten me where I am. It's brilliance." "My brain is one of the very few independent thinking brains that you've ever met. And that's a thing of wonder to you and since you don't understand it you criticize it." ~Dave Hawkins~

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2014,11:12    ooooo 'strategem'. Aren't we fancy.

Quack Posts: 1961 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2014,11:15    Quote They never seem to look for where they are wrong, rather they are searching for ways to entrench their doubt concerning the ideas they disagree with. It makes me sad sometimes.  :( Don't we all share a slice of the same sadness? Edited by Quack on Mar. 05 2014,11:16 -------------- Rocks have no biology.               Robert Byers.

Glen Davidson Posts: 1100 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2014,13:51    Quote (Quack @ Mar. 05 2014,11:15) Quote They never seem to look for where they are wrong, rather they are searching for ways to entrench their doubt concerning the ideas they disagree with. It makes me sad sometimes.  :( Don't we all share a slice of the same sadness? Schaden, yes. Freude, yes. It more than balances out, I think. Glen Davidson -------------- http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2014,13:54    Quote (timothya @ Mar. 05 2014,04:46) From KF at UD on events in the Ukraine:   Quote F/N: I trust the above, in light of the OP, also suffices to expose the destructive, deceitful, toxic nature of yet another increasingly common tactic: turnabout, blame the targetted victim accusations. Unfortunately, this seems to be a favourite stratagem of the Darwinist fever swamp denizens, and even those who are more genteel are prone to use it in subtler form, as Mr Nye plainly did. TSZ, I trust you are listening. KF Apparently you lot down there in the fever swamp are the cause of a Russophile insurrection in the Crimea. How did you manage that? I wonder which rabbit hole the "Putin is a bulwark against atheist immorality" trope suddenly disappeared down. No fan of Putin, but just the same, how dare he copy what we do with the CIA? And what countries have done since the dawn of history. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Ptaylor Posts: 1180 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2014,16:59    The latest thread on James Tour makes for entertaining reading, especially the comments about and from Nick Matzke. But then again any thread that can generate this...   Quote 25 kairosfocusMarch 5, 2014 at 4:29 pm Mr Matzke, you still have some outstanding apologies to make. Kindly understand that, for cause, I am on the verge of asking you to leave this thread as an abusive and disruptive false accuser. KF ...has got to be worth checking out. UD link ETA - Bonus follow-up!: Quote 26 kairosfocusMarch 5, 2014 at 4:41 pm Mr Matzke, I scrolled up to post 15 ff. I see you already tried a turnabout and pretzel twist game, compounding what you have done in recent weeks. Strike three. PLEASE LEAVE THIS THREAD, AND PLEASE DO NOT POST IN ANY THREADS I OWN UNTIL YOU CAN FIND THE BASIC MANNERS TO APOLOGISE FOR AND FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE YOUR CONDUCT TOWARDS BASIC CIVILITY. Any further posts from you in this and future threads I own will be deleted, until you show that you have a civil tongue in your head. Good day GEM of TKI Edited by Ptaylor on Mar. 06 2014,10:12 -------------- We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.” -PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2014,17:05    Quote (Ptaylor @ Mar. 05 2014,16:59) The latest thread on James Tour makes for entertaining reading, especially the comments about and from Nick Matzke. But then again any thread that can generate this...     Quote 25 kairosfocusMarch 5, 2014 at 4:29 pm Mr Matzke, you still have some outstanding apologies to make. Kindly understand that, for cause, I am on the verge of asking you to leave this thread as an abusive and disruptive false accuser. KF ...has got to be worth checking out. UD link Yeah, and that's Dr. Matzke to Mullings. I know that will be painful for the IDC cheerleading crowd whose refrain from early on was that Matzke didn't have that Ph.D. Now he does, and I think reminding the cheerleaders of that is precisely right. Edited by Lou FCD on Mar. 05 2014,18:48 -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2014,11:41    Quote (Febble @ Mar. 01 2014,04:29) Quote (OgreMkV @ Feb. 28 2014,08:00) Here's the criag carrol debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?f....tAwH33k Well, that was a pretty unambiguous win for Carroll. "Sean Carroll & William Lane..." This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Tactical Faith, Inc.. Chicken shits. Here is a live URL: http://truthbomb.blogspot.com/2014....an.html Edited by Dr.GH on Mar. 06 2014,09:50 -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2014,12:09    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 05 2014,15:05) Quote (Ptaylor @ Mar. 05 2014,16:59) The latest thread on James Tour makes for entertaining reading, especially the comments about and from Nick Matzke. But then again any thread that can generate this...       Quote 25 kairosfocusMarch 5, 2014 at 4:29 pm Mr Matzke, you still have some outstanding apologies to make. Kindly understand that, for cause, I am on the verge of asking you to leave this thread as an abusive and disruptive false accuser. KF ...has got to be worth checking out. UD link Yeah, and that's Dr. Matzke to Mullings. I know that will be painful for the IDC cheerleading crowd whose refrain from early on was that Matzke didn't have that Ph.D. Now he does, and I think reminding the cheerleaders of that is precisely right. BatShit77 posted a URL, http://vimeo.com/8193063....1930637 , to a lecture by Edward Trifonov that was supposed to imply that DNA couldn't have evolved. I'd point Batty to; Trifonov, Edward N. 2004 "The Triplet Code From First Principles" Journal of Biomolecular Structure & Dynamics, ISSN 0739-1102 Volume 22, Issue Number 1. Edited by Dr.GH on Mar. 06 2014,10:17 -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Soapy Sam Posts: 659 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2014,15:57    Quote (Ptaylor @ Mar. 05 2014,22:59) The latest thread on James Tour makes for entertaining reading, [...] Tour:     Quote I will tell you as a scientist and a synthetic chemist: if anybody should be able to understand evolution, it is me, because I make molecules for a living, Evolution not synthetic chemistry. Not OoL. Evolution something different. Evolution evolution. -------------- SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

Glen Davidson Posts: 1100 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2014,16:22    Quote (Soapy Sam @ Mar. 06 2014,15:57) Quote (Ptaylor @ Mar. 05 2014,22:59) The latest thread on James Tour makes for entertaining reading, [...] Tour:       Quote I will tell you as a scientist and a synthetic chemist: if anybody should be able to understand evolution, it is me, because I make molecules for a living, Evolution not synthetic chemistry. Not OoL. Evolution something different. Evolution evolution. Haven't you heard of intelligent molecules? Maybe Gary does have one fan... Glen Davidson -------------- http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2014,16:55    Mapou: Quote Science is 90% guts, 5% sweat and 5% smarts. All of you Darwinists and atheists out there are a bunch of gutless cowards. Take a lesson from Tour and grow some gonads. Mapou is 87% making things up, 9% Tard and 4% needed to add up to 1. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2014,17:30    Quote (Soapy Sam @ Mar. 06 2014,15:57)   Quote (Ptaylor @ Mar. 05 2014,22:59) The latest thread on James Tour makes for entertaining reading, [...] Tour:         Quote I will tell you as a scientist and a synthetic chemist: if anybody should be able to understand evolution, it is me, because I make molecules for a living, Evolution not synthetic chemistry. Not OoL. Evolution something different. Evolution evolution. Tour is a secular Jew who had an emotional conversion to Christianity.  He describes himself as an Old Earth Creationist.  There's a URL for one of his talks on that thread and it's a standard "come to Jesus, you miserable sinner" Bible thumping speech like you'd hear in any conservative Christian church on any Sunday.   Nowhere in Tour's writings does he describe what "understanding macroevolution" entails, but I'm betting he means the standard atom by atom description of how every molecule in every living thing came into existence, complete with date stamped samples, that every creationist loves to demand, on pain of Jesus.  Think of a JoeG who's accomplished something in the secular world.   Fuck them both.  If they can't provide us with an atom by atom description of how God designed every biological molecule on the planet, complete with date stamped samples and all applicable DNA sequences, then Jesus is dead and Torley's an ass for not bringing up Tour's religious/emotional baggage.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2014,17:46    KF is *very* excited about a video. He comments: Quote PS: In only a few minutes, another 100, it is going viral. He then graciously gives us time stamps and counts: Days Count 0.00 82000 0.03 82600 0.09 83602 0.15 84272 0.38 87300 What's the best fit for this? A linear regression (r^2 .9958). That's the very definition of NOT VIRAL. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2014,17:49    I WUV YOU FRANKLIN: Quote yes, it does speak volumes that the environment here is not conducive to uncensored/unmodified responses. IOW, no one trust you…just look at your (Kf) recent censoring of Dr. Matzke.s responses and your subsequent modification of one of his posts….yes, Kf, it does speak volumes. It also speaks volumes that you refuse to engage those you wish to engage in a forum where they (and you) are free to make uncensored points/opinions. You are either against censorship or you are not. Apparently, given your actions and your requests that others be censored elsewhere puts you in the “yes I approve of censorship’ category. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Ptaylor Posts: 1180 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2014,17:58    Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 07 2014,10:49) I WUV YOU FRANKLIN:     Quote yes, it does speak volumes that the environment here is not conducive to uncensored/unmodified responses. IOW, no one trust you…just look at your (Kf) recent censoring of Dr. Matzke.s responses and your subsequent modification of one of his posts….yes, Kf, it does speak volumes. It also speaks volumes that you refuse to engage those you wish to engage in a forum where they (and you) are free to make uncensored points/opinions. You are either against censorship or you are not. Apparently, given your actions and your requests that others be censored elsewhere puts you in the “yes I approve of censorship’ category. And note the emphasis of Dr. in the original -------------- We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.” -PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2014,18:08    And know KF has just had another BIGNUM / 747 Junkyard / NOMATH blurt. Still no CSI calcs, KF? Sad, and very telling. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2014,18:23    Quote Franklin: you just tried an ad hominem atmosphere-poisoning distractor to polarise and divert discussion instead of dealing with a key matter on its merits. You full well know that I gave a specific offer to host such an essay in toto, here at UD, and that it could freely be hosted elsewhere in parallel (I suggested TSZ). No censorship or manipulation of such a post would be feasible under such circumstances, so you are making a deliberate misrepresentation in the teeth of what you know or should know. It is also the case in describing showing hecklers and slanderers the door until they can find a civil tongue in their heads, as censorship. Shame on you. But then, this sort of diversion, twisting about, poisoning the atmosphere and making of threats is unfortunately all too common in the circles of toxic critics UD has had to deal with. For instance, should I take your behaviour just now as willful enabling of the sort of behaviour where some attempted to identify and publicly name my uninvolved wife and minor children? Or, those who tried to reveal my residential address under similar circumstances? I would suggest to you and ilk that leaving such information up and entertaining the sort of thug who does that IS enabling, and “freedom of expression” has limits of civility long before we come to libel and slander issues because there are ill willed, maladjusted bullies and crazies like that out there. KF tl:dr - Censorship is okay when KF does it. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

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