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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2013,21:04   

KF is among the dumbest fucks I've ever seen.  That said, UD has become a distillation of the dumbest fucks on the planet.  All of them.  Sociopaths all.

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 13 2013,15:28   

vjtorley has cranked out yet another screed.  This one takes on Robert Ingersoll, Anatole France and Jerry Coyne.  Yet it's only 20 pages long.  
Clearly, Torley is losing his powers.

Batshit 77 replies:
Turin Shroud Hologram Reveals The Words ‘The Lamb’ – short video
http://www.metacafe.com/watch......4041205

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 659
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 13 2013,15:36   

Quote (CeilingCat @ Jan. 13 2013,21:28)
vjtorley has cranked out yet another screed.  [...]

Batshit 77 replies:
Turin Shroud Hologram Reveals The Words ‘The Lamb’ – short video
http://www.metacafe.com/watch......4041205

Further work has revealed that those words follow the barely-decipherable text: "I'll have the chicken. What would you like?"

--------------
SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G

BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 13 2013,18:05   

My favorite line from the above screed:

"I’d like to quote here from David Coppedge’s masterly online work, THE WORLD’S GREATEST CREATION SCIENTISTS From Y1K to Y2K:"

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 14 2013,15:03   

Quote (CeilingCat @ Jan. 13 2013,16:28)
vjtorley has cranked out yet another screed.  This one takes on Robert Ingersoll, Anatole France and Jerry Coyne.  Yet it's only 20 pages long.  
Clearly, Torley is losing his powers.

Batshit 77 replies:
Turin Shroud Hologram Reveals The Words ‘The Lamb’ – short video
http://www.metacafe.com/watch......4041205

OK, I watched the video, because I wanted to see what language this was supposed to be in.

The speaker says that he found evidence that there was an oval object placed on the throat area with the three letters in Hebrew script of ayin, alef, nun when read right to left. Further he says that these letters mean 'lamb' in Aramaic.

1 - I can't find any confirmation online that would translate lamb with these characters, or these characters as lamb.

2 - A writer of Hebrew or Aramaic would write the letter nun using a special letter form if it was the final letter of a word. This is not the letter form identified by this investigation.

So, total bullshit and par for the course of a BA^77 link.

--------------
I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 14 2013,20:11   

[quote=dvunkannon,Jan. 14 2013,15:03]  
Quote
The speaker says that he found evidence that there was an oval object placed on the throat area with the three letters in Hebrew script of ayin, alef, nun when read right to left. Further he says that these letters mean 'lamb' in Aramaic.

1 - I can't find any confirmation online that would translate lamb with these characters, or these characters as lamb.

2 - A writer of Hebrew or Aramaic would write the letter nun using a special letter form if it was the final letter of a word. This is not the letter form identified by this investigation.

So, total bullshit and par for the course of a BA^77 link.

And right below that was another oval which read "SYAR-N".  

Shroud experts are still undecided on the meaning of the second oval.

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 14 2013,21:51   

If I squint the turds in my cat's litter box spell out

"moar tuna"

Seriously.  I can post a picture.  And, surprisingly, if I superimpose an image of the Shroud it says "moar tuna" right on Jesus' neck in English.

Must be a sign.

  
Amadan



Posts: 1337
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2013,04:14   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Jan. 15 2013,03:51)
If I squint the turds in my cat's litter box spell out

"moar tuna"

Seriously.  I can post a picture.  And, surprisingly, if I superimpose an image of the Shroud it says "moar tuna" right on Jesus' neck in English.

John 6:5-15
Quote

Must be a sign.

Find "Moar loaves" and we're suckin diesel!

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1239
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2013,12:48   

[quote=CeilingCat,Jan. 14 2013,20:11]
Quote (dvunkannon @ Jan. 14 2013,15:03)
     
Quote
The speaker says that he found evidence that there was an oval object placed on the throat area with the three letters in Hebrew script of ayin, alef, nun when read right to left. Further he says that these letters mean 'lamb' in Aramaic.

1 - I can't find any confirmation online that would translate lamb with these characters, or these characters as lamb.

2 - A writer of Hebrew or Aramaic would write the letter nun using a special letter form if it was the final letter of a word. This is not the letter form identified by this investigation.

So, total bullshit and par for the course of a BA^77 link.

And right below that was another oval which read "SYAR-N".  

Shroud experts are still undecided on the meaning of the second oval.

Next major breakthrough: Shroud experts find third oval:

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2013,13:03   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki....pective

Hey IDiots - that's what *real science* looks like.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2013,09:33   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 15 2013,21:03)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki.......pective

Hey IDiots - that's what *real science* looks like.

In December 2011 physicist Giulio Fanti published a critical compendium of the major hypotheses regarding the formation of the body image on the shroud. Fanti stated that "none of them can completely explain the mysterious image".Fanti then considered corona discharge as the most probable hypothesis regarding the formation of the body image.

Ahhh you have to love the Opera in it's native language Amor et mort Inganno per inganno
Bwhahahahahahahahaha

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2013,09:51   

If you can't completely explain, at the videotape level, an historical event, then Jesus.

Literally, in this case.

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2013,09:56   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 16 2013,09:51)
If you can't completely explain, at the videotape level, an historical event, then Jesus.

Literally, in this case.

Except that requirement never applies to... well... Jesus.

That's the part that always bugs the heck out of me.  Christians assume the Bible is true and everything must fit around that.  They never treat their own beliefs like they treat beliefs (or science) that they don't like.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Henry J



Posts: 5787
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2013,10:46   

Quote
They never treat their own beliefs like they treat beliefs (or science) that they don't like.

That's because it's all shrouded in mystery! :p

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2013,10:55   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 15 2013,11:03)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki.......pective

Hey IDiots - that's what *real science* looks like.

I wonder if the Catholic Church has ever considered using the image for a line of quilt covers and throw rugs?  I'd buy one.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2013,11:13   

Why does Jesus look like Frank Zappa?

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 16 2013,12:16   

Quote (k.e.. @ Jan. 16 2013,07:33)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 15 2013,21:03)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki.......pective

Hey IDiots - that's what *real science* looks like.

In December 2011 physicist Giulio Fanti published a critical compendium of the major hypotheses regarding the formation of the body image on the shroud. Fanti stated that "none of them can completely explain the mysterious image".Fanti then considered corona discharge as the most probable hypothesis regarding the formation of the body image.

Ahhh you have to love the Opera in it's native language Amor et mort Inganno per inganno
Bwhahahahahahahahaha

Ew.

That stain on the shroud is... discharge?

Ew.

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 659
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2013,03:57   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 16 2013,17:13)
Why does Jesus look like Frank Zappa?

And he looks like he thinks I'm a jerk.

--------------
SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G

BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

  
Tony M Nyphot



Posts: 492
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2013,10:29   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 16 2013,10:13)
Why does Jesus look like Frank Zappa?

Because the shroud was created in Joe's garage?

--------------
"I, OTOH, am an underachiever...I either pee my pants or faint dead away..." FTK

"You could always wrap fresh fish in the paper you publish it on, though, and sell that." - Field Man on how to find value in Gary Gaulin's real-science "theory"

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1239
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2013,12:05   

Quote (Tony M Nyphot @ Jan. 17 2013,10:29)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 16 2013,10:13)
Why does Jesus look like Frank Zappa?

Because the shroud was created in Joe's garage?

by the Mothers of Invention?

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Tony M Nyphot



Posts: 492
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2013,22:08   

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Jan. 17 2013,11:05)
 
Quote (Tony M Nyphot @ Jan. 17 2013,10:29)
 
Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 16 2013,10:13)
Why does Jesus look like Frank Zappa?

Because the shroud was created in Giusčppe's garage?

by the Mothers of Invention?

He was looking for a Jewish princess?

--------------
"I, OTOH, am an underachiever...I either pee my pants or faint dead away..." FTK

"You could always wrap fresh fish in the paper you publish it on, though, and sell that." - Field Man on how to find value in Gary Gaulin's real-science "theory"

  
Henry J



Posts: 5787
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 17 2013,23:11   

Or Mrs. Edison!

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 18 2013,11:06   

ID:UD short version.

I honestly believe this captures it:

'ID isn't religious and I've got a bible verse that proves it!'



Edited by Lou FCD on Jan. 19 2013,07:41

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1036
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 18 2013,12:22   

Quote (Tony M Nyphot @ Jan. 17 2013,22:08)
Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Jan. 17 2013,11:05)
 
Quote (Tony M Nyphot @ Jan. 17 2013,10:29)
   
Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 16 2013,10:13)
Why does Jesus look like Frank Zappa?

Because the shroud was created in Giusčppe's garage?

by the Mothers of Invention?

He was looking for a Jewish princess?

And did they use yellow snow to make it?

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 18 2013,13:11   

Quote (afarensis @ Jan. 18 2013,10:22)
Quote (Tony M Nyphot @ Jan. 17 2013,22:08)
Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Jan. 17 2013,11:05)
   
Quote (Tony M Nyphot @ Jan. 17 2013,10:29)
   
Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 16 2013,10:13)
Why does Jesus look like Frank Zappa?

Because the shroud was created in Giusčppe's garage?

by the Mothers of Invention?

He was looking for a Jewish princess?

And did they use yellow snow to make it?

With zirconium-encrusted tweezers.  On the sofa.  Financed through the heavenly bank account.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 18 2013,23:13   

Quote (fnxtr @ Jan. 16 2013,12:16)
 
Quote (k.e.. @ Jan. 16 2013,07:33)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 15 2013,21:03)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki.......pective

Hey IDiots - that's what *real science* looks like.

In December 2011 physicist Giulio Fanti published a critical compendium of the major hypotheses regarding the formation of the body image on the shroud. Fanti stated that "none of them can completely explain the mysterious image".Fanti then considered corona discharge as the most probable hypothesis regarding the formation of the body image.

Ahhh you have to love the Opera in it's native language Amor et mort Inganno per inganno
Bwhahahahahahahahaha

Ew.

That stain on the shroud is... discharge?

Ew.

There's a reason they call it The Passion.

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2013,20:20   

Quote (afarensis @ Jan. 18 2013,13:22)
Quote (Tony M Nyphot @ Jan. 17 2013,22:08)
Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Jan. 17 2013,11:05)
   
Quote (Tony M Nyphot @ Jan. 17 2013,10:29)
   
Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 16 2013,10:13)
Why does Jesus look like Frank Zappa?

Because the shroud was created in Giusčppe's garage?

by the Mothers of Invention?

He was looking for a Jewish princess?

And did they use yellow snow to make it?

Vis Shrouds: One size fits all.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1100
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2013,23:11   

Do we have to know what the purpose is for a 20 ft, perfectly rectangular plane of 1? thick glass with uniform, beveled edges in order to discern that it is best explained by design? Must we know how it was made, or where it was found and in what environmental conditions?

Or, hey, what about large square columns?  Surely the objects pictured below must have been designed:



The fact is that design must have evidence of rationality--or at least some sort of mark of intelligence--behind it, but even that has to be demonstrated, not merely assumed.  That's why Dembski's "test" for design is circular, since after redefining the rationality of most simple human objects, and the apparent rationality of crystals, as "complex" in order to conflate life and design, he has to leave out crystals because they have "CSI," because they're known not to be designed.  

Life, of course, simply is lacking in any sort of evident rationality behind its "design" (at least when studied, rather than stupidly assumed), which is what really is a great marker of design, yet which isn't sufficient to alone determine design.  The spiel now is that there's all of this "information technology" in life, as if that's the clincher, but surely there would simply be no life without information systems at least nearly as complex as exist in life.  More importantly, gee, just how much more evolvable are the information elements in life (genes, most notably) than in a designed system?  Uh, hugely, sufficiently (at least insofar as we can judge), while there's no realistic chance at all that human-made information systems will start to evolve organically (mimicking evolution in silico does work, but merely reinforces the fact that life's information systems were analogized sufficiently in order to do so).  It's just a great coincidence, or for microevolution--just mindless excuses ad nauseam.

Forethought is the one aspect of design that, if it were demonstrated, should actually indicate design.  Apparent rationality is a good marker, but fails alone, mainly because natural processes can produce what rationality would in some cases.  Neither, however, is demonstrable in life.

That's why Stephen Meyer tries to pull a fast one, by claiming that processes observed today must produce the results that we see.  Clearly it's an intellectually dishonest endeavor (would any intellectually honest person draw upon Lyell's uniformitarianism today?), which also must ignore the vast differences between information systems in life--the evolvable ones--and those designed by us without copying natural evolution.  You simply rule out the evolution of information systems because we didn't observe their evolution (and who cares that we evolved our information-manipulating abilities?  Not IDiots, anyway), and default to design because we've designed information systems--and if you ignore all of the differences, notably evolvability, what's left are the similarities.

So, you can just observe an object and see that it's designed, unless, that is, it's a crystal or some such thing that wasn't designed and we know that because of all of the contextual information.  Even if that fails us, well, information "technology" surely indicates design, because that simply redefines what makes life able to succeed at all as design, so if you can just fake that well enough, you've won by defining the terms.  

The evolvability of life's information can be conveniently ignored, just as all of the evidence that life lacks the requisite forethought and rational shortcuts that would (at least one or the other) be necessary to legitimately infer design can be ignored.

Glen Davidson

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
sparc



Posts: 2089
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2013,23:07   

Finally, someone at UD realizes that there is something like quadruplex DNA. And DLH derives predictions from its existence:        
Quote
If the quadruple helix is from mutated or erroneous copying, that could be a cause of cancer. From an ID perspective, if double helix DNA was designed and the quadruple helix DNA was not, then I hypothesize that there may be detection and repair mechanisms designed to prevent the quadruple helix DNA from being formed. The underlying cause for the quadruple helix DNA may thus be failure of the detection and repair mechanisms. John C. Sanford’s studies suggest there is an accumulation of mutations in the genome over time. See Mendel’s Accountant, and Genetic Entropy and the Mystery of the Genome.

Consequently this suggests an increase in the relative frequency quadruple helix DNA to population over time. This raises the potential to identify historic mutations causing this aberration with consequent potential to detect it.

There is bad news for DHL, however: Quadruplex DNA is conserved and often found in promoters of eukaryotic genes. Thus, it seems that G4-DNA is under evoulionary constraints and functional in non-cancer cells. Back in 1995 such sequences were described as oligopurine tracts  and a young scientist concluded from their frequencies in eukaryotic genomes that they are likely functional under normal conditions:
     
Quote
An overabundance of long oligopurine tracts occurs in the genome of simple and complex eukaryotes.
Nucleic Acids Res. 23(4):689-95


A search of sequence information in the GenBank files shows that tracts of 15-30 contiguous purines are greatly overrepresented in all eukaryotic species examined, ranging from yeast to human. Such an overabundance does not occur in prokaryotic sequences. The large increase in the number of oligopurine tracts cannot be explained as a simple consequence of base composition, nearest-neighbor frequencies, or the occurrence of an overabundance of oligoadenosine tracts. Oligopurine sequences have previously been shown to be versatile structural elements in DNA, capable of occuring in several alternate conformations. Thus the bias toward long oligopurine tracts in eukaryotic DNA may reflect the usefulness of these structurally versatile sequences in cell function.

Since I worked with G-rich sequences in the early 90s I was aware of Behe's early work and actually expecting something like "ID-prediction proven" and "super-complex DNA structure with unforeseeable high information content that cannot be explained by evolution theory". Most biologist will not know Behe's papers but shouldn't the guys who have posting privileges at ID's leading mouthpiece at least check if any of the movements leading figurs said something on the issues before they are trumpeting them?
Of course, they still have the 404 option to for correction.

(edited for spelling mistakes and phrasing)

Edited by sparc on Jan. 21 2013,23:28

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2013,04:22   

Quote (sparc @ Jan. 21 2013,23:07)
Finally, someone at UD realizes that there is something like quadruplex DNA. And DLH derives predictions from its existence:            
Quote
If the quadruple helix is from mutated or erroneous copying, that could be a cause of cancer. From an ID perspective, if double helix DNA was designed and the quadruple helix DNA was not, then I hypothesize that there may be detection and repair mechanisms designed to prevent the quadruple helix DNA from being formed. The underlying cause for the quadruple helix DNA may thus be failure of the detection and repair mechanisms. John C. Sanford’s studies suggest there is an accumulation of mutations in the genome over time. See Mendel’s Accountant, and Genetic Entropy and the Mystery of the Genome.

Consequently this suggests an increase in the relative frequency quadruple helix DNA to population over time. This raises the potential to identify historic mutations causing this aberration with consequent potential to detect it.

There is bad news for DHL, however: Quadruplex DNA is conserved and often found in promoters of eukaryotic genes. Thus, it seems that G4-DNA is under evoulionary constraints and functional in non-cancer cells. Back in 1995 such sequences were described as oligopurine tracts  and a young scientist concluded from their frequencies in eukaryotic genomes that they are likely functional under normal conditions:

Even worse, there aren't "detection and repair mechanisms" acting against quadruplex DNA. Instead nuclei have thing things called "histones".

Incidentally, DLH (he should be DHL, BTW, but one of his letters was late) seems to think that quadruplex DNA is some sort of mutation, rather than being a secondary structure of DNA (albeit one that only forms when G rich).

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
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