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khan Posts: 1554 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,19:11    Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,18:31) I'd be perfectly content if PZ would just put a visible disclaimer on his blog drawing attention to the fact that his views are his alone and not that of his place of employment.   I mean, let's be honest, PZ does go *out of his way* to try to piss off anyone who believes in a higher power.  He's a bigot.  period. The worst thing about him is that he absolutely feeds the hard core religious right who are looking to point out the antics of the villiage atheist mentality.  PZ = exactly what they are looking for. So will I "go to hell" for dissing a biscuit? I can't imagine what it is like to spend my life living in fear that I might have a thought. -------------- "It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad Frequency is just the plural of wavelength... -JoeG

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,19:26    Quote So will I "go to hell" for dissing a biscuit? Not in my book, but that's not really the point.  There are things that are sacred to most people in one way or the other...be it something related to their heritage, religion, memorials to loved ones, etc., etc.,. If we don't respect that, it only leads to hatred.   I don't agree with a lot of things that other religions hold as sacred, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go out of my way to be disrepectful of them.  There are ways to disagree with people without showing extreme bigotry. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,19:39    Ummm...there is a poster name Pastor reading the forum right now.  He just signed up today.  I think we're all in big trouble. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,19:51    I know I should shut my mouth, but... Oh, forget it...it'll only open a can of worms. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,19:56    Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,19:39) Ummm...there is a poster name Pastor reading the forum right now.  He just signed up today.  I think we're all in big trouble. I'm quaking in my boots, I tell ya. FWIW, I was raised Catholic (8 years in parochial school, altar boy, but unmolested), but now I am a "godless liberal teaching in our universities". Thankfully I don't teach godless liberalism, but that's another issue. I think PZ has some good days (like when he banned FtK for using his daughter as a surrogate for her attacks on him), and bad days. I agree with Dr. GH; this is one of his bad days. Gratuitous insults, even if they involve mere symbols, don't help at all. Deserved insults, on the other hand, have their place. IMHO, PZ's take on this is a gratuitous insult. Anyhoo, FtK, you shouldn't be wasting time on this thread. You have unfinished business on your own thread. You'd go a long way toward being undeserving of insults if you could just manage to address those arguments, or admit that you are wrong. -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

Maya Posts: 702 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,20:05    Quote (Benny H @ July 11 2008,15:14) I'm curious about DaveScot's religious beliefs. It was my understanding that he was an agnostic, but his recent posts seem to me the words of a theist. Has he converted? Or perhaps he mistakenly believes non-denom theist and agnostic are the same thing. He worships Our Lady of Gutlessness and Censorship.

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,20:11    Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 11 2008,19:56) Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,19:39) Ummm...there is a poster name Pastor reading the forum right now.  He just signed up today.  I think we're all in big trouble. I'm quaking in my boots, I tell ya. FWIW, I was raised Catholic (8 years in parochial school, altar boy, but unmolested), but now I am a "godless liberal teaching in our universities". Thankfully I don't teach godless liberalism, but that's another issue. I think PZ has some good days (like when he banned FtK for using his daughter as a surrogate for her attacks on him), and bad days. I agree with Dr. GH; this is one of his bad days. Gratuitous insults, even if they involve mere symbols, don't help at all. Deserved insults, on the other hand, have their place. IMHO, PZ's take on this is a gratuitous insult. Anyhoo, FtK, you shouldn't be wasting time on this thread. You have unfinished business on your own thread. You'd go a long way toward being undeserving of insults if you could just manage to address those arguments, or admit that you are wrong. Due time, big guy.  I addressed Bill's last post with a lengthy post of my own, and here you are again acting as though I never address a thing.   Chill. I'm in no mood to type out several pages of translation from Darwinism to Design today. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,20:21    Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,20:11) Due time, big guy.  I addressed Bill's last post with a lengthy post of my own, and here you are again acting as though I never address a thing.   Chill. I'm in no mood to type out several pages of translation from Darwinism to Design today. You had a post that you alleged was a response to Bill's post, but it didn't really address the issues he raised. You had a long post on your blog that you alleged was a response to my arguments about icefish, but it also didn't address the issues. Going on at length about the various definitions of "species" was a nice touch, but the two icefish that I mentioned would be categorized as different species under all of those definitions. So you have basically agreed that macroevolution happened. Thanks. So I'm not just "acting" as if you never address a thing. That is a verifiable fact. At any rate, it won't take pages. If you have some argument as to why your opinion trumps my evidence, it shouldn't take more than a few sentences. But I can wait. I'm sure that your response will be, per usual, evidence-free and opinion-rich. -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,20:28    Quote (khan @ July 11 2008,20:11) I can't imagine what it is like to spend my life living in fear that I might have a thought. That really is the crux of it, isn't it? -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,20:29    Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,20:26) Quote So will I "go to hell" for dissing a biscuit? Not in my book, but that's not really the point.  There are things that are sacred to most people in one way or the other...be it something related to their heritage, religion, memorials to loved ones, etc., etc.,. If we don't respect that, it only leads to hatred.   I don't agree with a lot of things that other religions hold as sacred, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go out of my way to be disrepectful [sic] of them.  There are ways to disagree with people without showing extreme bigotry. Yeah, so stop making fun of people who use voodoo dolls. It might offend them. Edited by Lou FCD on July 11 2008,21:30 -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,20:35    Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 11 2008,20:21) Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,20:11) Due time, big guy.  I addressed Bill's last post with a lengthy post of my own, and here you are again acting as though I never address a thing.   Chill. I'm in no mood to type out several pages of translation from Darwinism to Design today. You had a post that you alleged was a response to Bill's post, but it didn't really address the issues he raised. You had a long post on your blog that you alleged was a response to my arguments about icefish, but it also didn't address the issues. Going on at length about the various definitions of "species" was a nice touch, but the two icefish that I mentioned would be categorized as different species under all of those definitions. So you have basically agreed that macroevolution happened. Thanks. So I'm not just "acting" as if you never address a thing. That is a verifiable fact. At any rate, it won't take pages. If you have some argument as to why your opinion trumps my evidence, it shouldn't take more than a few sentences. But I can wait. I'm sure that your response will be, per usual, evidence-free and opinion-rich. Well then I guess there's no point in addressing any of your posts Dave, because I believe I did answer your questions.  I think the problem is that you still don't understand that I agree with much of what evolution postulates.  You have this narrow vision of "Creationists" as some bizzarre religious cult that rejects science altogether. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,20:37    Quote (Lou FCD @ July 11 2008,20:28) Quote (khan @ July 11 2008,20:11) I can't imagine what it is like to spend my life living in fear that I might have a thought. That really is the crux of it, isn't it? I always find statements like this so terribly odd.  It must be a testimony to how you were brought up in whatever faith beliefs you were born into. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,20:41    Lou, if you're going be an ass and point out my typos, you might be curteous enough to provide me with an edit button. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,20:47    Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,21:41) Lou, if you're going be an ass and point out my typos, you might be curteous enough to provide me with an edit button. You'd still have one if you hadn't abused the one you had in the first place, Ftk. Your lack of edit button is your responsibility alone.  Don't lay that on anyone but yourself. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,20:47    Well, PZ's on his seventh post about crackers.  It seems to me that a simple apology at the onset would have put a stop to the Donohue (sp?) frenzy and the whole entire parade.   He's clearly basking in the attention being brought on by his bigotry and striving his hardest to apply salt to the wounds. Pity.   Apologizing isn't really that hard to do...in fact, it usually feels pretty good once you're able to admit to yourself that you've made a mistake. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,20:48    On further reflection, I am equally disapproving that PZ has incited others to commit criminal acts. This will not go well. Edidted to fix some errors (becasue itz their) Edited by Dr.GH on July 11 2008,18:50 -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,20:49    Quote (Lou FCD @ July 11 2008,20:47) Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,21:41) Lou, if you're going be an ass and point out my typos, you might be curteous enough to provide me with an edit button. You'd still have one if you hadn't abused the one you had in the first place, Ftk. Your lack of edit button is your responsibility alone.  Don't lay that on anyone but yourself. Lou, I deleted about 3 posts because I was upset that I had made Ian so mad.  I didn't know you'd think I was trying to erase my entire thread or something.  Gads...that would have taken a month to accomplish. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,20:51    Quote (Dr.GH @ July 11 2008,21:48) On further reflection, I am equally disapproving that PZ has incited others to comitt crimainal acts. This will not go well. Dr. GH, I've been a little self-involved today with my total pwning of the entrance exam. Could you elaborate on the criminal acts for me briefly? ETA: Yeah, I'm arrogant today.   Edited by Lou FCD on July 11 2008,21:53 -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,20:52    Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,21:49) Quote (Lou FCD @ July 11 2008,20:47) Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,21:41) Lou, if you're going be an ass and point out my typos, you might be curteous enough to provide me with an edit button. You'd still have one if you hadn't abused the one you had in the first place, Ftk. Your lack of edit button is your responsibility alone.  Don't lay that on anyone but yourself. Lou, I deleted about 3 posts because I was upset that I had made Ian so mad.  I didn't know you'd think I was trying to erase my entire thread or something.  Gads...that would have taken a month to accomplish. Good thing I stepped in then... -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,21:01    Boy, oh boy.  I read some of those emails sent to PZ.  Those Catholics folks are PISSED OFF.   Here I thought you guys were tight with the Catholics being that they have no problem with Darwinism and all. PZ would be well advised to quit taunting them. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,21:02    Quote So, what to do. I have an idea. Can anyone out there score me some consecrated communion wafers? There's no way I can personally get them — my local churches have stakes prepared for me, I'm sure — but if any of you would be willing to do what it takes to get me some, or even one, and mail it to me, I'll show you sacrilege, gladly, and with much fanfare. I won't be tempted to hold it hostage (no, not even if I have a choice between returning the Eucharist and watching Bill Donohue kick the pope in the balls, which would apparently be a more humane act than desecrating a goddamned cracker), but will instead treat it with profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse, all photographed and presented here on the web. I shall do so joyfully and with laughter in my heart. If you can smuggle some out from under the armed guards and grim nuns hovering over your local communion ceremony, just write to me and I'll send you my home address. Someone who does not have legal access to church property is requested to "score" some hosts. As I said earlier, If a priest wants to test divine wrath, I am fully willing to desecrate any host they have legal access to. But to generally broadcast that just "anyone" should try to "score ... some consecrated communion wafers" does incite people to break the law. Edited by Dr.GH on July 11 2008,19:04 -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,21:08    Quote (Dr.GH @ July 11 2008,21:02) Quote So, what to do. I have an idea. Can anyone out there score me some consecrated communion wafers? There's no way I can personally get them — my local churches have stakes prepared for me, I'm sure — but if any of you would be willing to do what it takes to get me some, or even one, and mail it to me, I'll show you sacrilege, gladly, and with much fanfare. I won't be tempted to hold it hostage (no, not even if I have a choice between returning the Eucharist and watching Bill Donohue kick the pope in the balls, which would apparently be a more humane act than desecrating a goddamned cracker), but will instead treat it with profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse, all photographed and presented here on the web. I shall do so joyfully and with laughter in my heart. If you can smuggle some out from under the armed guards and grim nuns hovering over your local communion ceremony, just write to me and I'll send you my home address. Someone who does not have legal access to church property is requested to "score" some hosts. As I said earlier, If a priest wants to test divine wrath, I am fully willing to desecrate any host they have legal access to. But to generally broadcast that just "anyone" should try to "score ... some consecrated communion wafers" does incite people to break the law. "Street Theater?" -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,21:22    Wow.oh.wow.  I just read some more of them.  He's posted endless emails from Catholics.  Honestly, the whole episode makes me feel like crying...for both sides really. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,21:23    Quote (Dr.GH @ July 11 2008,22:02) Quote So, what to do. I have an idea. Can anyone out there score me some consecrated communion wafers? There's no way I can personally get them — my local churches have stakes prepared for me, I'm sure — but if any of you would be willing to do what it takes to get me some, or even one, and mail it to me, I'll show you sacrilege, gladly, and with much fanfare. I won't be tempted to hold it hostage (no, not even if I have a choice between returning the Eucharist and watching Bill Donohue kick the pope in the balls, which would apparently be a more humane act than desecrating a goddamned cracker), but will instead treat it with profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse, all photographed and presented here on the web. I shall do so joyfully and with laughter in my heart. If you can smuggle some out from under the armed guards and grim nuns hovering over your local communion ceremony, just write to me and I'll send you my home address. Someone who does not have legal access to church property is requested to "score" some hosts. As I said earlier, If a priest wants to test divine wrath, I am fully willing to desecrate any host they have legal access to. But to generally broadcast that just "anyone" should try to "score ... some consecrated communion wafers" does incite people to break the law. Thanks, Dr. GH. Which law, though?  I guess I'm missing the illegal part. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,21:27    Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,22:22) Wow.oh.wow.  I just read some more of them.  He's posted endless emails from Catholics.  Honestly, the whole episode makes me feel like crying...for both sides really. Definition Quote A concern troll is a false flag pseudonym created by a user whose point of view is opposed to the one that the user's sockpuppet claims to hold. The concern troll posts in web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed "concerns". The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group.[10] -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,21:29    Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,21:11) Due time, big guy.  I addressed Bill's last post with a lengthy post of my own, and here you are again acting as though I never address a thing.   I have posted several substantive comments directed at the topic of common descent versus common design since your last response, beginning with an article documenting the work of Johanne Haile-Selassie you claimed would make you think. That doesn't seem to have happened. Rather, you've ignored them. That isn't addressing my questions. Nor was the post you describe above at all responsive to my original comment - rather, you simply restated much of what you had already posted on your blog. Go here and here, both substantial, on-topic non-personal remarks. -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,21:44    How about we start a betting pool on how long it takes PZ to learn the hard way that I was correct about Mirecki? Who ever is closest wins. I'll start with $5 on Aug 11th. (It was about a month before Mirecki got slapped around.) -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,21:55    Quote (Dr.GH @ July 11 2008,21:44) How about we start a betting pool on how long it takes PZ to learn the hard way that I was correct about Mirecki? Who ever is closest wins. I'll start with $5 on Aug 11th. (It was about a month before Mirecki got slapped around.) What do you mean by "I was correct about Mirecki"?   Are you saying that you think Mirecki was actually beat up by some fundies, and that PZ is next in line? You do realize that the cops never actually ran across those "fundies", who I think should have been pretty easy to track down.  Retarded fundies packing punches don't usually cover their tracks very well, and they tend to brag.  Doesn't seem like it would be a terribly hard case to crack. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,22:03    Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,22:55) Quote (Dr.GH @ July 11 2008,21:44) How about we start a betting pool on how long it takes PZ to learn the hard way that I was correct about Mirecki? Who ever is closest wins. I'll start with $5 on Aug 11th. (It was about a month before Mirecki got slapped around.) What do you mean by "I was correct about Mirecki"?   Are you saying that you think Mirecki was actually beat up by some fundies, and that PZ is next in line? You do realize that the cops never actually ran across those "fundies", who I think should have been pretty easy to track down.  Retarded fundies packing punches don't usually cover their tracks very well, and they tend to brag.  Doesn't seem like it would be a terribly hard case to crack. I'm sorry.  Why is it that anyone should care about what you think again? Violence is, after all, the way of salvation.  There's a long history of that. So they didn't get caught.  That makes it OK? -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 11 2008,22:06    Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,21:55) Mirecki blah blah. PZ blah blah. Were you there???? blah blah Still here, still opinions without evidence, still ignoring questions from here and here.   Quote Ftk   Viewing Board index   July 11 2008,21:57 Good to know that some things never change... G'night -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

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