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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 3, The Beast Marches On...< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,12:29   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Oct. 08 2009,12:21)
 
Quote
Murray also wore an orange cord necklace with a pair of earplugs and a black cord necklace that featured two pentagrams and a medallion showing the Eye of Ra, an ancient Egyptian symbol.

In the right front pocket of his pants he carried a red paperback book called "The Book of the Law" by Aleister Crowley, a British occultist that Murray referred to in some of his web writings.


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news....himself


 
Quote
On December 10, the gunman in both the YWAM Arvada and New Life Church shootings was identified as Matthew J. Murray, age 24, one of two sons of a prominent Colorado neurologist. Reportedly, Murray was homeschooled in a deeply religious Christian household, and he attended, but did not complete, a missionary training program at the YWAM Arvada facility in 2002.[5] Early on in the investigation, law enforcement officials stated that Murray had been sending "hate mail" to the program and that he "hated Christians",[14] the religion in which he had been raised.[15][16][17] Murray had previously attended the same YWAM Missionary Center where he began his shooting spree. Court records indicated that Murray was bitter over his expulsion from the 12-week missionary training program.[18][19] His expulsion from the school was confirmed by Cheryl Morrison, whose husband, George Morrison, is pastor of the Faith Bible Chapel adjacent to YWAM Denver. She didn't know specifics of the conflict. "I don't think that ‘run-in’ is the word, but they did have to dismiss him. It had to be something of significance, because they go the nth degree with people." Murray was expelled from the school due to "strange behavior," which included playing frightening rock music and claiming to hear voices.[20][21] Before the second shooting, Murray left several violent and threatening messages on several religious websites, espousing his hatred for Christianity and his intentions on killing as many Christians as possible.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_J._Murray

This article indicates that a Bible, a Youth With a Mission certificatde, and a picture of Ted Haggard were also found among his possession.

EDIT: I think Murray was severely mentally ill and neither Dawkins, Dennett, Haggard, or the Bible/church was a cause of what he did.

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,12:31   

Was the picture sticky with fluids? Just askin'

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
BGOG



Posts: 5
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,12:35   

I was first to go out on that thread, which wouldn't bother me so much (I did break their rules after all) if I hadn't put up a second post a minute later which condemned Polanski's behaviour (just to avoid a Seversky-style witchhunt) which they chose not to publish, leaving people to wonder if I condone child rape. (I don't!)

  
keiths



Posts: 2195
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,12:35   

Ahhh, the tard monsoon has come at last.  Come out and dance in the rain, folks!

Barry just banned one of his own:
Quote
27

Gods iPod
10/08/2009
11:59 am

SNIP. Long-time poster God’s iPod is no longer with us.


GI had complained that the thread was making ID supporters look like uneducated dolts.

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
BillB



Posts: 388
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,12:35   

I just realized why there isn't an rss feed from UD for individual comments - if there were it would be easier to keep track of the vanishing posts.

  
sparc



Posts: 2089
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,12:36   

Quote (BillB @ Oct. 08 2009,10:36)
 
Quote (REC @ Oct. 08 2009,16:17)
Please won't someone think of the children!!!

And a post that will never see the light of day.....

Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Lets say I’m a atheist materialist that favors property rights. No god, I just like my stuff. The first and foremost property is one’s own body. Violations to that right (and particularly minors who are less able to defend their right) should be prosecuted.

I suppose this blog argues all legal codes ever evolved from the Old Testament? You should really take a look at Numbers 31:18.

Or maybe this should this be the punishment?
“If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl…..” Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NI
….

You beat me to it:
     
Quote
Your comment is awaiting moderation.

I have a daughter, and plenty of instincts to protect her, I also like living in communities where I feel that I and my family are safe (it would be a bad survival tactic to do otherwise). I wouldn’t want someone to force themselves on my daughter, and thanks to an ability to feel empathy I don’t want to see that happen to anyone else.

The result is a belief that it is wrong for people to force sexual acts on unwilling participants.

Given that the Bible has this piece of advice:
     
Quote
If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 New International Version

It is clear that rape is disapproved of, but do you believe that the punishment it advises is just – particularly from the girls point of view?

Unfortunately, I can not judge how reliable the following source is that came up when I googled pedophil "southern baptist" but according to The Southern Baptist Church Has A Dirty Little Secret their pastors must be hard core materialists by Arrington's measures.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,12:37   

Quote
EDIT: I think Murray was severely mentally ill and neither Dawkins, Dennett, Haggard, or the Bible/church was a cause of what he did.


Hearing voices might be a clue. Voices from the ceiling are usually rather unpleasant.

I read somewhere that there is no record in the annals of psychotherapy of disembodied voices telling people to love their neighbors, be nice to the wife and kids, and pet the cat.

I think that may be an exaggeration, but still true in the main.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
keiths



Posts: 2195
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,12:42   

Jackboots make StephenB horny:
Quote
39

StephenB
10/08/2009
12:27 pm

I fully support the administrators and moderators for keeping this thread on track and sending to the showers all those who refuse to confront the issue. Sooner or later, deniers and equivocators must be brought face to face with their inability to debate the issue on its merits.

Stephen will be waiting, soaped up and ready.

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,12:44   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Oct. 08 2009,12:37)
Quote
EDIT: I think Murray was severely mentally ill and neither Dawkins, Dennett, Haggard, or the Bible/church was a cause of what he did.


Hearing voices might be a clue. Voices from the ceiling are usually rather unpleasant.

Speaking of which, has there been any recent Davescot sightings?

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,12:46   

Quote (keiths @ Oct. 08 2009,12:42)
Jackboots make StephenB horny:
Quote
39

StephenB
10/08/2009
12:27 pm

I fully support the administrators and moderators for keeping this thread on track and sending to the showers all those who refuse to confront the issue. Sooner or later, deniers and equivocators must be brought face to face with their inability to debate the issue on its merits.

StephenB crows triumphantly about the empty chair's inability to answer his questions.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,13:12   

Quote
Barry Arrington: I am not suggesting that Auvinen’s and Harris’ actions are the inevitable consequences of believing in Darwinism.  It is, however, clear that at least some of Darwin’s followers understand “survival of the fittest” and the attendant amorality at the bottom of Darwinism as a license to kill those whom they consider “inferior.”  Nothing could be more obvious.

I'm not sure that Auvinen or Harris really grasped the concept of reproductive success.

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You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
REC



Posts: 638
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,13:20   

Someone should ask them if they think non-human primate social order and sense of justice is derived from the cute little monkey religious beliefs.  

e.g: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed....VDocSum

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,13:42   

Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 08 2009,13:12)
 
Quote
Barry Arrington: I am not suggesting that Auvinen’s and Harris’ actions are the inevitable consequences of believing in Darwinism.  It is, however, clear that at least some of Darwin’s followers understand “survival of the fittest” and the attendant amorality at the bottom of Darwinism as a license to kill those whom they consider “inferior.”  Nothing could be more obvious.

I'm not sure that Auvinen or Harris really grasped the concept of reproductive success.

 
Quote
Borne: While the actions of these young men are not the inevitable consequences of believing Darwinism, the conclusions they came to are.

I would have thought that spreading your seed around to produce prodigious numbers of offspring, or forming a stable family and community to produce a few, high-quality offspring, or even helping those close to you with their children, would be the inevitable conclusion.

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You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,13:43   

Here's part of God's iPod's final post, courtesy of Clive:

Quote
If you want to attack materialists, there’s better fodder for the fire than this example. I suggest you just delete this entire thread and pretend it never happened, it makes us look like uneducated fools.

Indeed.

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,14:03   

Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 08 2009,11:12)
Quote
Barry Arrington: I am not suggesting that Auvinen’s and Harris’ actions are the inevitable consequences of believing in Darwinism.  It is, however, clear that at least some of Darwin’s followers understand “survival of the fittest” and the attendant amorality at the bottom of Darwinism as a license to kill those whom they consider “inferior.”  Nothing could be more obvious.

I'm not sure that Auvinen or Harris really grasped the concept of reproductive success.

I've written about this before (the last two times B-Tard felt like flogging Columbine for cheap rhetorical purposes). Harris certainly didn't.  His journals mention natural selection I think four times.  In one case, he wrote that he thought he should be able to steal stuff if people leave it in plain sight on the front seat of their car because, somehow,  that's "NATURAL SELECTION".   He also thought removing all warning labels, from everything, was a good idea and would somehow eliminate "dumbasses". Also people who "only know stupid facts" should be shot. Then there's the whole blowing his own head off and leaving no offspring behind thing, along with statements like these:
Quote

If you recall your history the Nazis came up with a "final solution" to the Jewish problem... kill them all. well incase you havent figured it out yet, I say, "K I L L M A N K I N D" no one should survive.


IOW, Harris didn't understand shit about evolution.  He just liked anything that potentially included stuff dying violently, preferably people who pissed him off, which basically seemed to be everybody.

BTW, Klebold regularly attended a Lutheran church while growing up, and in the available documents he never said anything about either evolution in general or natural selection. Mostly he just pined over some girl, and his writings indicate clearly that he believed in some form of afterlife (or hoped for one, anyway) and a quasi-pantheistic deity.  Not very materialist of him, I must say.  Strange how Barry only seems to mention him in passing, if at all, but loves to harp on Harris ad nauseum.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
Reg



Posts: 112
Joined: Dec. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,14:28   

Good grief, Barry's really been wielding the Ban Scythe with gusto. Not counting the deletions where he's cut out inconvenient parts of people's responses, just the bannings:

* 2nd comment: BGOG is no longer with us.
Many snips and warnings follow before we reach comment 22:
* SNIP. Quaggy ignored the warning above and is no longer with us.
A mere 2 comments later Todd falls to the Banninator:
* SNIP. Todd, a guest on this site, attacked and insulted his host. He is no longer with us.
* Then: SNIP. Long-time poster God’s iPod is no longer with us.
* and SNIP, DNA_Jock is no longer with us..

5 down, warnings aplenty.

I love this bit where he justifies the gaggings and bannings:
Quote
It is rude for a dinner guest to tell his host that the food is odious. It is just as rude to come into UD’s house and tell the posters their posts are unworthy for discussion.

Yes, it would be rude to tell the host that the food is odious. To continue Barry's preferred dinner party analogy; if the host turned to the guest over dinner and proclaimed "Your problem is you lack any sense of decency and morality, I bet you think it's okay to sodomize drugged girls and I'm amazed we even allow you into our house while our daughter lies asleep upstairs" then it would hardly be rude for the guest to mount a spiritied defence and ask how the host justified such a position.

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"Even though I am not a creationist by any reasonable definition ... the Cambrian explosion was doubtless the work of God in my view but I would say that of all creation." - Denyse O'Leary, Oct 17, 2009.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,14:30   

Quote (didymos @ Oct. 08 2009,14:03)
BTW, Klebold regularly attended a Lutheran church while growing up, and in the available documents he never said anything about either evolution in general or natural selection. Mostly he just pined over some girl, and his writings indicate clearly that he believed in some form of afterlife (or hoped for one, anyway) and a quasi-pantheistic deity.  Not very materialist of him, I must say.  Strange how Barry only seems to mention him in passing, if at all, but loves to harp on Harris ad nauseum.

He doesn't bring up Klebold for the same reason he never brings up Matthew Murray.  Barry is the worst sort of cultural warrior, in that he is not concerned with concepts such as truth, accuracy, or fairness. He is only concerned with advancing his cause and if that means telling the Noble Lie, so be it.  We can this see through his willful misrepresentation of Seversky and his convenient wielding of the ban hammer with critics.

EDIT: Fixed for more better clearness.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,15:01   

Quote (Reg @ Oct. 08 2009,15:28)
Good grief, Barry's really been wielding the Ban Scythe with gusto. Not counting the deletions where he's cut out inconvenient parts of people's responses, just the bannings:

* 2nd comment: BGOG is no longer with us.
Many snips and warnings follow before we reach comment 22:
* SNIP. Quaggy ignored the warning above and is no longer with us.
A mere 2 comments later Todd falls to the Banninator:
* SNIP. Todd, a guest on this site, attacked and insulted his host. He is no longer with us.
* Then: SNIP. Long-time poster God’s iPod is no longer with us.
* and SNIP, DNA_Jock is no longer with us..

5 down, warnings aplenty.

Not to mention:

Editor: SNIP. your warped interpretation of the Old Testament is not the subject of this post.

SNIP. “I know you are but what am I” arguments are not germane. If you have any response to the actual question posed by the post, please submit it.

Indeed, SNIP, I do not find...

May I remind you that Mohamed SNIP. As I indicated in my post, I know you would like to change the subject away from your own ethically impoverished wouldview, but this post is not about Muhammad.

I'm thinking Barry needs to get on with that career performing vasectomies and circumcisions pronto. He has missed his calling.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,15:04   

BTW, I think we stand a very good chance of enjoying a genuine FRIDAY MELTDOWN, a real barn-burner, the first in months.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,15:05   

I'm not having Barry baptize any of my kids then - I want them whole after the ceremony.

P.S. more snippings as well now.

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Reg



Posts: 112
Joined: Dec. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,15:07   

People are still being SNIPped and told to stay tightly on topic after Clive's 3000 word quote of CS Lewis on morality in religious texts is left intact.

--------------
"Even though I am not a creationist by any reasonable definition ... the Cambrian explosion was doubtless the work of God in my view but I would say that of all creation." - Denyse O'Leary, Oct 17, 2009.

  
REC



Posts: 638
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,15:35   

And for the Hat Trick-CHINA!!!

And the connection to evolution-?  ?  ?

<crickets>

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,15:42   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Oct. 08 2009,13:01)
I'm thinking Barry needs to get on with that career performing vasectomies and circumcisions pronto. He has missed his calling.

They're not usually carried out with machetes and chainsaws.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Reg



Posts: 112
Joined: Dec. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,15:44   

Quote (REC @ Oct. 08 2009,15:35)
And for the Hat Trick-CHINA!!!

And the connection to evolution-?  ?  ?

<crickets>


Duh; climatology, euthanasia, Hitler, child rape, the Columbine shootings and Chinese infanticide are all made possible by evolution corrupting people's souls away from God.

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"Even though I am not a creationist by any reasonable definition ... the Cambrian explosion was doubtless the work of God in my view but I would say that of all creation." - Denyse O'Leary, Oct 17, 2009.

  
REC



Posts: 638
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,15:45   

By the way, follow the logic of the last update?

"Even in 1955, for example, it was taken for granted in the southern United States that black people are inferior to white people and therefore have no claim to equal rights under the law."

Yes Barry, 1955 White Southerners were such god-hating atheist materialists.  Luckily, they found racism was objectively wrong throughout history, in all cultures and times, as plainly stated in the one true book, and left their evil ways.

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,15:50   

Ugh.  What a creepy, creepy thread.  I'm going to spend the rest of the day in the shower.

History is full of people who shared Barry's belief that morality stemmed solely from the word of God.  Some of them even heard the word of God themselves, telling them to do all kinds of things.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,15:55   

Quote (JohnW @ Oct. 08 2009,21:50)
Ugh.  What a creepy, creepy thread.  I'm going to spend the rest of the day in the shower.

History is full of people who shared Barry's belief that morality stemmed solely from the word of God.  Some of them even heard the word of God themselves, telling them to do all kinds of things.

I've always wondered why the voices never tell people to perform random acts of kindness. Why do the voices say "go out and kill" as opposed to "make them a cup of tea"?

Maybe it's just because we don't notice the nice voices....

...ZOMG YOU IS ALL SCHIZO!!!!!

Louis

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Bye.

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,16:08   

Quote (Louis @ Oct. 08 2009,13:55)
Quote (JohnW @ Oct. 08 2009,21:50)
Ugh.  What a creepy, creepy thread.  I'm going to spend the rest of the day in the shower.

History is full of people who shared Barry's belief that morality stemmed solely from the word of God.  Some of them even heard the word of God themselves, telling them to do all kinds of things.

I've always wondered why the voices never tell people to perform random acts of kindness. Why do the voices say "go out and kill" as opposed to "make them a cup of tea"?

Maybe it's just because we don't notice the nice voices....

...ZOMG YOU IS ALL SCHIZO!!!!!

Louis

To be fair, if the voices tell you to send me a case of malt, I'm very, very unlikely to call the police.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
sledgehammer



Posts: 533
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,16:18   

Quote (dmso74 @ Oct. 08 2009,10:19)
over at Corny's blog he's now claiming quantum mechanics is a religious theory:
   
Quote
As for Einstein's religious claims, sure, like everyone else he had his religious beliefs. And they probably influenced his thinking on QM. It is another example of religious influences in science.


linky

That fits.  Einstein was wrong about QM:  God really does play dice with the universe.

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The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
MichaelJ



Posts: 462
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2009,17:03   

The US is really turning into 2 nations isn't it. The Barrys and Clives of your country have their own history, science, TV channels, web sites etc. UD is one of the few interfaces and even there reality has a hard time to poke its head through.

  
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