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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Expelled: The Real Deal

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 29 2007,08:09    While the DI works on camera angles to turn molehills into mountains, there are people who really have been harassed, given death threats, and/or lost their jobs... they are folks who have taken a pro-science stance among antievolutionists. I'll start the thread off with the case of Chris Comer, former employee of the Texas Education Agency. Expelled: Texas Education Agency Fires Staffer for Announcing Talk by Barbara Forrest Ms. Comer used her work email to forward a relevant talk announcement, and within a couple of hours the TEA administration was on the move to can her. Quote Apparently, not being a team player in the The Republican War on Science is a firing offense at the TEA. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 15 2007,06:51    (Cross posting this from the UD thread) Lizzette Reynolds is a lying sack of Tard. Texas Education Agency Deputy Commissioner Lizzette Gonzalez Reynolds is the woman who sent the following in an email regarding Chris Comer:           Quote (Lizzette Reynolds @ via email) This is highly inappropriate. I believe this is an offense that calls for termination or, at the very least, reassignment of responsibilities. In yesterday's Austin American-Statesman, she is interviewed and proves the old adage, "Better to remain silent and be thought a completely ignorant IDiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt".           Quote (Lizzette Reynolds @ Friday, December 14, 2007, 03:17 PM) Were you surprised she resigned? Yes, because I had asked her supervisor to look into the e-mail issue. But I wasn’t kept in the loop. I was at a meeting some time later when someone mentioned, “By the way, she (Chris Comer) is resigning today.”           Quote (Lizzette Reynolds @ via email) This is highly inappropriate. I believe this is an offense that calls for termination or, at the very least, reassignment of responsibilities.           Quote (Lizzette Reynolds @ Friday, December 14, 2007, 03:17 PM) Was Comer forced out because she forwarded the e-mail? You don’t just fire someone or force them out overnight. There are state processes in place, and you must respect them.           Quote (Lizzette Reynolds @ via email) This is highly inappropriate. I believe this is an offense that calls for termination or, at the very least, reassignment of responsibilities.           Quote (Lizzette Reynolds @ Friday, December 14, 2007, 03:17 PM) Has this episode had a chilling effect on TEA employees? I don’t think there is a muzzle on anyone. Everyone can express their opinions — goodness knows I have many — but we are a state agency and must respect the beliefs of Catholics, atheists, Jews, Christians, Muslims, everyone. And we should all respect the fact that it is the bailiwick of the State Board of Education to write (curriculum) standards.           Quote (Lizzette Reynolds @ via email) This is highly inappropriate. I believe this is an offense that calls for termination or, at the very least, reassignment of responsibilities.           Quote (Lizzette Reynolds @ Friday, December 14, 2007, 03:17 PM) What is your position on evolution and intelligent design regarding public education? I don’t have an opinion about it because I don’t have content knowledge, meaning that I am not a science expert or teacher. But (determining content) is not my role. When it comes to defining educational standards, that is done by our writing teams, which include teachers. Members of the writing teams are nominated by the State Board of Education, which has final authority for approving standards.           Quote (Lizzette Reynolds @ via email) This is highly inappropriate. I believe this is an offense that calls for termination or, at the very least, reassignment of responsibilities.           Quote (Lizzette Reynolds @ Friday, December 14, 2007, 03:17 PM) The TEA has received a lot of criticism, especially from scientists, who note that evolution is not a relic or abstract theory, but an important plank in the study of modern sciences and in scientific research. Were you aware of the significance of evolution? I didn’t recognize the importance of the subject in terms of it being tagged “evolution.” I know now that it has very real importance in modern science and research. I know that it is in our TEKS, and I’ve no reason to believe it won’t continue that way. What I didn’t think about was evolution in terms of a political struggle. That took me by surprise because the science is being utilized in all our schools.           Quote (Lizzette Reynolds @ via email) This is highly inappropriate. I believe this is an offense that calls for termination or, at the very least, reassignment of responsibilities. Well, now that all doubt is most assuredly removed, we could stop there.  But just for fun, let's add hypocrite to the resume:           Quote (Lizzette Reynolds @ Friday, December 14, 2007, 03:17 PM) Knowing what you know now, what would you do differently? I would have alerted the proper people that something was being sent on the state e-mail. I would have said, “Let’s discuss this,” instead of giving my opinion in the e-mail. … Should I have used the words “termination” or “reassignment”? I don’t know.         Quote (Lizzette Reynolds @ via email) This is highly inappropriate. I believe this is an offense that calls for termination or, at the very least, reassignment of responsibilities. So, Chris Comer, the director of the state science curriculum, sending an email about a science issue is a termination offense, but Little Lizzy Liarpants sending out email to lobby for a hatchet job is Okely Dokely. (HT to Dr. BA)  (again)  (y'know for one astronomer to be consistently up on this quicker than the bunch of biologists around here... I'm just sayin'....)  (FYI) -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 24 2007,05:02    Glenn Branch, of the NCSE and author of the Email that Chris Comer forwarded, writes briefly about the incident at the Beacon Broadside.   Quote (Glenn Branch @ December 19, 2007, 0927) Unfortunately, Comer works at the Texas Education Agency, as its director of science curriculum—or, rather, she worked there. Less than two hours after sending the e-mail, she was called on the carpet and instructed to send a disclaimer. And then she was forced to resign. Although a memorandum recommending her dismissal referred to various instances of alleged “misconduct and insubordination” on her part, it was clear what her real offense was: “the TEA requires, as agency policy, neutrality when talking about evolution and creationism.” It’s absurd, of course, to regard Comer’s forwarding of my announcement of Forrest’s talk as endorsing Forrest’s view (ask a linguist). But that absurdity pales in comparison to the absurdity of the Texas Education Agency trying to adopt a position of “neutrality” on evolution, when (as the National Academy of Sciences observes) “The scientific consensus around evolution is overwhelming.” As Forrest commented, “Maybe the TEA can’t afford to take a position on what constitutes good science education—maybe it must remain neutral on whether or not to lie to students about evolution—but if so, that's just sad.” More at the link. FYI. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Texas Teach Posts: 2084 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 02 2008,21:57    ERV reports that Comer is suing TEA to get her job back.  I love this quote from the Dallas Morning News article she linked to: Quote Critics – and at least one federal judge – contend that intelligent design is nothing more than creationism and has no business being taught in science classes. my bold -------------- "Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr "I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 03 2008,15:53    Thanks, TT.  I had been looking for this thread several pages back, but couldn't find it this morning.  I posted over in the Expelled thread. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 03 2008,16:04    No one looks at the bathrrom wall today. For those interested in reading and possibly quoting from the lawsuit, I have a text pdf. text pdf -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: July 03 2008,16:17    Quote (midwifetoad @ July 03 2008,14:04) No one looks at the bathrrom wall today. For those interested in reading and possibly quoting from the lawsuit, I have a text pdf. text pdf Thanks (Thanks to ERV as well) -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

lcd Posts: 137 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 03 2008,16:34    Hey guys, Waiting for the wife and kids to get back.  So I decided to check out what is going on here. Hmmm, interesting (I've already read the well thought out, very professional and good natured blasting directed at me on the Dr. Hovind thread) that these people and the posters here say that those that are really pro-science, those who want to actually teach all the things in science, such as ID, are the ones who whine and claim persecution. I guess it all depends on whose doing the whining what you think of them. As for lawsuits, I'm sure the good people at the Discovery Institute (OBTW, I think the name people around here give it, the "Disco Tute" is funny) are getting ready to do more lawsuits to get the "Evolution Uber Alles"* thrown out and let science back into the classroom. *Yes my friend, this one's for you.

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 03 2008,16:38    Quote As for lawsuits, I'm sure the good people at the Discovery Institute (OBTW, I think the name people around here give it, the "Disco Tute" is funny) are getting ready to do more lawsuits to get the "Evolution Uber Alles"* thrown out and let science back into the classroom. Now that's funny. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 03 2008,16:56    Quote (lcd @ July 03 2008,16:34) Hey guys, Waiting for the wife and kids to get back.  So I decided to check out what is going on here. But you apparently couldn't bring yourself to back up any of your claims with a fact or two. How surprising. If those facts have been misplaced, when your wife and kids get back,maybe you can ask them if they know where you left them... -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 03 2008,20:04    What about Richard Colling? -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 03 2008,20:52    Quote (afarensis @ July 03 2008,21:04) What about Richard Colling? Blake Stacey was keeping a list at one time, and I don't specifically recall that name being on there. I'll have to check into that one. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 03 2008,20:57    Quote (Lou FCD @ July 03 2008,21:52) Quote (afarensis @ July 03 2008,21:04) What about Richard Colling? Blake Stacey was keeping a list at one time, and I don't specifically recall that name being on there. I'll have to check into that one. My mistake. He's on there. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 04 2008,08:03    DaveTard has been taking lawyer lessons from LarryF, apparently. According to Larry/Dave logic, Comer's email was promoting an unconstitutional activity! Quote Forrest’s lecture, because it centers on creationism, even though critical of it, is still unconstitutional in public schools by current USSC decision. Any mention of creationism in the public schools, regardless of whether the mention is pro or con, is in fact the teaching of it. Since his last excursion into barrister land ended so well, I can only hope that this one presages yet another defeat for the Dishonesty Institute's crack legal team. link -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,13:45    Language Log weighs in on Comer: More Nonsense from the Texas Education Agency Their conclusion: Quote I am hard put to tell whether the TEA officials are incapable of the most elementary analysis of a text or whether they are simply lying. Lay your bets! -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 06 2008,14:13    Quote (lcd @ July 03 2008,14:34)  As for lawsuits, I'm sure the good people at the Discovery Institute (OBTW, I think the name people around here give it, the "Disco Tute" is funny) are getting ready to do more lawsuits to get the "Evolution Uber Alles"* Speaking of German phrases, Paley LCD:     Quote thrown out and let science back into the classroom. You're right. We can't have science be defined by scientists anymore. Thank goodness we have Creationists to fix that. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

jeannot Posts: 1201 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,06:29    The story is relayed by Nature. http://www.nature.com/news/2008/080709/full/454150e.html (may require registration) EDIT: Larry Farfarman is posting there!

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,13:42    Looks like The Catholic League is going after PZ, to get him Expelled. Heh.  Good luck with that.  Methinks they shoulda stuck to biting off crackers.  This will be a bit more than they can chew, I suspect. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,13:49    Quote (Lou FCD @ July 10 2008,13:42) Looks like The Catholic League is going after PZ, to get him Expelled. Heh.  Good luck with that.  Methinks they shoulda stuck to biting off crackers.  This will be a bit more than they can chew, I suspect. If the cracker does in fact become the body of Christ, then we could get his DNA! -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

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