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  Topic: A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin, As big as the poop that does not look< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,00:09   

Quote (Texas Teach @ June 08 2015,23:55)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 08 2015,23:33)
Quote (N.Wells @ June 08 2015,21:59)
 
Quote
The quality of the paper might be acceptable for evolutionary biology. I sensed that you would like the content. But in my opinion it doesn't explain the origin of female orgasms and is way too speculative to be of any use to me.
It's an interesting unresolved theoretical evolutionary problem.  Since the stated conclusion of the paper is not an explanation for the origin of female's orgasms but a statement that the problem remains unsolved because a previous claim to have resolved the problem in fact failed to do so, I am puzzled by why you needed to develop an opinion that the paper does not resolve the problem.  

You and others are happy with information that more or less puts the cart before the horse and results in arguing which of many speculative possibilities might be correct, while I'm most happy seeing a model of a bug to answer those questions slowly develop a brain that so outgrows its body Texas Teach makes fun of it.

Develops?  Did you or did you not program in "a hippocampus"?  How is that in any way considered developing?

One step at a time progress has given the critter more than "a hippocampus" it's now sprouting an entire mammalian brain.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,00:31   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 09 2015,00:09)
Quote (Texas Teach @ June 08 2015,23:55)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 08 2015,23:33)
 
Quote (N.Wells @ June 08 2015,21:59)
 
Quote
The quality of the paper might be acceptable for evolutionary biology. I sensed that you would like the content. But in my opinion it doesn't explain the origin of female orgasms and is way too speculative to be of any use to me.
It's an interesting unresolved theoretical evolutionary problem.  Since the stated conclusion of the paper is not an explanation for the origin of female's orgasms but a statement that the problem remains unsolved because a previous claim to have resolved the problem in fact failed to do so, I am puzzled by why you needed to develop an opinion that the paper does not resolve the problem.  

You and others are happy with information that more or less puts the cart before the horse and results in arguing which of many speculative possibilities might be correct, while I'm most happy seeing a model of a bug to answer those questions slowly develop a brain that so outgrows its body Texas Teach makes fun of it.

Develops?  Did you or did you not program in "a hippocampus"?  How is that in any way considered developing?

One step at a time progress has given the critter more than "a hippocampus" it's now sprouting an entire mammalian brain.

You ignored my actual questions.  Here they are again.

Quote
Develops?  Did you or did you not program in "a hippocampus"?  How is that in any way considered developing?


And a couple new ones that "developed" thanks to your attempts to evade:

Did "progress" do that, or did you?  Do insects develop mammalian brains during their lives in the real world?  Do they do so in your "theory"?

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,01:02   

I did not evade your questions.  In the brain modeling process I had  to one at a time add something new, not all at once. It has been a slow but steady years long development that led to where it is right now. Having to code each step along the way is expected when developing a program like this. And in a virtual reality the body the brain is given to control does not much matter. I would only waste my time and slow the program way down by getting fancy with graphics. It would otherwise be "all show and no go". Keeping the body simple greatly reduced the development time of the brain, which is what the model is to demonstrate, not a body.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,07:07   

Quote
[From Gary] ..... I'm most happy seeing a model of a bug to answer those questions slowly develop a brain  


Quote
[From Texas Teach] Did "progress" do that, or did you?  Do insects develop mammalian brains during their lives in the real world?  Do they do so in your "theory"?


Quote
[From Gary] I did not evade your questions.  In the brain modeling process I had  to one at a time add something new, not all at once. It has been a slow but steady years long development that led to where it is right now. Having to code each step along the way is expected when developing a program like this.



So "development of a brain" now means "gradually programmed by Gary as he thinks up improvements".  That in turn means (heaven help us here) that the "intelligent design" that has so far been absent from Gary's Intelligent Design not-a-theory turns out to be Gary himself.  That in turn means that Gary's model in Gary-Reality implies that Gary is god.  

That's going to go over really well with the faithful.

Gary, an important fundamental point is eluding you here: for a model to show how something develops, development has to occur independently of you tweaking the model at every twist and turn.

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,07:24   

It also means that Gary has gone from modeling 'intelligence', whatever the fuck he means by that, to modeling the brain.
No matter where one comes down on the relevant issues, it is literally insane to assert that the brain == intelligence.

Oh, wait, no wonder Gary equates the two.

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,07:34   

I'm having a bit of difficulty reconciling these two comments by Gary:

Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 08 2015,20:09)
...
I had to skip as much school as I could get away with or go nuts in one of the hell-holes I got stuck in while growing up.


Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 08 2015,22:27)
…I had an excellent science education while growing up.


Even when taking into account the remark that follows the second, to wit:
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 08 2015,22:27)
..
The problem is that very little of it was learned in a public school classroom. I had to find educational resources that the public schools don't offer, including college level material that only someone like me would want to study.

the sentiment is bizarre.

Gary, you're not competent to learn.  You are simply incorrect about the materials available to public school students.  Doubtlessly because you spent all your time and energy avoiding school.  (It shows.)
College level material is available to all and sundry, without regard to who or where they are (to a decent approximation anyway).  Trivially proven by the fact that this material was allegedly available to you back then and is certainly available to you now.  That it is as meaningful to you as hieroglyphics is obvious, but not relevant.

Irony meters across the universe exploded at the suggestion that 'someone like you' would or could 'study college level material'.  What you do to such material is certainly not 'study'.  As you would know if you knew anything at all about intelligence, learning, cognitive science, etc.

Epic fail, as per your usual.

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,08:36   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 09 2015,09:02)
I did not evade your questions.  In the brain modeling process I had  to one at a time add something new, not all at once. It has been a slow but steady years long development that led to where it is right now. Having to code each step along the way is expected when developing a program like this. And in a virtual reality the body the brain is given to control does not much matter. I would only waste my time and slow the program way down by getting fancy with graphics. It would otherwise be "all show and no go". Keeping the body simple greatly reduced the development time of the brain, which is what the model is to demonstrate, not a body.

So it's  a brain in a bottle? Not a champagne bottle obviously I'm guessing something very cheap. What's  the cheap drink that near do wells partake in, in your neck of the woods Gary?

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,08:41   

Quote (NoName @ June 09 2015,15:34)
I'm having a bit of difficulty reconciling these two comments by Gary:

 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 08 2015,20:09)
...
I had to skip as much school as I could get away with or go nuts in one of the hell-holes I got stuck in while growing up.


 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 08 2015,22:27)
…I had an excellent science education while growing up.


Even when taking into account the remark that follows the second, to wit:
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 08 2015,22:27)
..
The problem is that very little of it was learned in a public school classroom. I had to find educational resources that the public schools don't offer, including college level material that only someone like me would want to study.

the sentiment is bizarre.

Gary, you're not competent to learn.  You are simply incorrect about the materials available to public school students.  Doubtlessly because you spent all your time and energy avoiding school.  (It shows.)
College level material is available to all and sundry, without regard to who or where they are (to a decent approximation anyway).  Trivially proven by the fact that this material was allegedly available to you back then and is certainly available to you now.  That it is as meaningful to you as hieroglyphics is obvious, but not relevant.

Irony meters across the universe exploded at the suggestion that 'someone like you' would or could 'study college level material'.  What you do to such material is certainly not 'study'.  As you would know if you knew anything at all about intelligence, learning, cognitive science, etc.

Epic fail, as per your usual.

Gary didn't avoid school, it avoided him while he was counting the number of steps between classes then multiplying that by the color of the door knobs.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,08:56   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 09 2015,02:02)
I did not evade your questions.  ...

Really?

What about all of these?  They remain answered since they were originally asked, nor have they been addressed subsequently.

 
Quote (N.Wells @ Dec. 31 2014,09:31)
You've got a whole lot of transparent and ineffective distraction going on, Gary.
As NoName said earlier,
     
Quote
Stop deflecting, distracting, and denying.  Man up and deal with the facts on the ground:

A phenomenon is not properly called 'emergent' when it arises from a set of phenomena to which it is properly called 'self-similar'.  And vice versa.
Not all acts of 'intelligence' are motor acts, yet your "theory" insists otherwise.  This flies in the face of your assertion that your, or any competing, "theory" must "explain how ANY intelligence system works."
Deal with the fact that you smuggle 'intelligence' into your module with the undefined and uncharacterized 'guess' function.
Deal with the fact that 'guess' does not equal 'plan'.  Your "theory" is useless as a 'theory of intelligence' if it cannot deal with plans and planning.
Deal with the fact that many acts of intelligence involve imagination, and your "theory" does not deal with imagination at all.
Deal with the fact that some of the most crucial constraints on life are thermodynamic and that your "theory" simply ignores any and all thermodynamic issues.
Etc.

     
Quote
What is the ‘something’ that must be controlled when an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?
Note that none of these require muscle activity of any sort.

What are the senses that address what memory/memories when an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?
Note that each of these has been performed by individuals who lack the 'obvious' sensory modalities one would expect for the product.
Sub-question — what does it mean for memory to be sensory-addressed?  The naive view that has the senses directly writing to memory or directly “indicating” what memory to use and what to store there has been debunked many many years ago.  So what are you talking about here?

What is the measure of confidence to gauge failure and success when an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?
Sub-question — what senses address what memory/memories in the creation, storage, and retrieval of the ‘confidence’ factor?  Is it analog or digital?  What process(es) modify it, at what points, and what difference does it make?

What is the ‘ABILITY TO TAKE A GUESS’?  How is it manifested and how is it utilized when  an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?

What is a guess?  How does ‘guess’ relate to ‘plan’ and to ‘imagination?  Are there factors that feed into/influence the guess?  Is a guess random?  If not, what regularity does it exhibit?  Is it algorithmic?  What algorithm?  Or how is the specific algorithm used chosen?
What justifies embedding ‘guess’ into the “flow” that defines “intelligence” when the ability to guess is generally taken to be an act of intelligence?  How is it we only find guessing happening when we find ‘molecular intelligence’ in your sense, i.e., biology?
(You do realize that a random number generator in a computer program does not ‘guess’?)


And questions from me:
     
Quote
Why is your rubbish not made obsolete by Edgar Postrado's rubbish?

     
Quote

It is also unreasonable to expect out of place detail that would limit the theory to only one level of intelligence (brains) of a model that has to work for any behavior, intelligent or not.


Since you see intelligence darn near everywhere at all levels, in your opinion what behavior would qualify as not intelligent, and why?

...

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,08:58   

Quote (k.e.. @ June 09 2015,09:41)
...
Gary didn't avoid school, it avoided him while he was counting the number of steps between classes then multiplying that by the color of the door knobs.

Which he did in order to determine the scent of oranges so he could compare it to the shape of apples.

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,09:01   

Quote (NoName @ June 09 2015,07:34)
     
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 08 2015,20:09)
...
I had to skip as much school as I could get away with or go nuts in one of the hell-holes I got stuck in while growing up.


       
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 08 2015,22:27)
…I had an excellent science education while growing up.


       
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 08 2015,22:27)
..
The problem is that very little of it was learned in a public school classroom. I had to find educational resources that the public schools don't offer, including college level material that only someone like me would want to study.

It's bad practice to diagnose from a distance, and I'm certainly no expert in the following, but Gary's explanation of his educational background suggests the following to me.

Gary is an autodidact (someone who learned by teaching himself), which may well explain all of his achievements and his problems.  Being an autodidact is fine, and can be something to be very proud of - Bill Gates and Leonardo da Vinci are excellent examples of accomplished autodidacts.  

This has worked great for Gary in electronics and programming, in part because these are fields where you get constant, instant ground-truthing of your ideas: if your understanding is not correct, then what you are doing won't work, so you evolve a correct understanding very quickly.

However, it has worked very badly for Gary in writing and in science, because those are much hazier subject areas that do not provide good and continuous feedback.  Worse, he has the unhappy combination of defects that he is not a very good autodidact while also being exceptionally strongly convinced of whatever he has managed to teach himself.  The biggest problem with autodidacts is gaps in their knowledge, especially when they do not recognize that they have gaps, and another large problem is the inability to catch and correct errors (because, after all, they worked so hard to make sense of the material in the first place, so they've internalized their understanding as "truth"), and those bedevil Gary.

To any external audience, Gary's written English is execrable, but I'm guessing that Gary cannot see the problems, because he did not learn the rules of English but instead taught himself the way that he thinks that English ought to work, so in his lights his English is fine, because it follows what he thinks the rules ought to be.

In science, Gary has massive gaps in what he knows and vast discrepancies between his understanding of science works and reality.  This leads to an "Emperor's New Clothes" situation (but without the flattery) where Gary thinks he has clad himself in the glorious robes of science, while the rest of us see only a naked fool mouthing scienceyness.

Gary's only gauge of correctness has been whether or not it makes sense to him.  This blinds him to the need for evidence, laying out chains of logic, supporting assertions, and all the other steps that are so important to the rest of humanity, and it leaves him completely clueless about why, when he announces his understanding, we don't all prostrate ourselves in amazement and gratitude, saying, "wow, we never thought of it that way, but now that you say it, it's obvious".

It's possible that learning by flashing to an understanding may have left Gary impatient with regular classroom instruction.  Presumably, as school years went by, discrepancies increased between teachers' explanations of reality and Gary's incorrect internal models of the same. That could indeed have made even a good class seem like a pointless hell-hole, sending Gary even further off into his own universe.

Some quotes regarding difficulties for people in self-teaching situations, from Kirschner & van Merriënboer (2012) at  http://www.learnlab.org/research/wiki/images/4/4d/Kirschner-Merrienboer-2013.pdf
     
Quote
they also do not have the knowledge to adequately determine the relevance or truth of what they have found

     
Quote
have problems finding the information that they are seeking but also often trust the first thing they see, making them prone to “the pitfalls of ignorance, falsehoods, cons and scams”

     
Quote
lack regulatory skills and have difficulties defining the information problem; identifying what they do not know.

   
Quote
 it is what one already knows that determines what one sees and understands and not the other way around. Thus, prior knowledge largely determines how we search, find, select, and process (i.e., evaluate) information

  
Jim_Wynne



Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,09:14   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 08 2015,19:47)
Quote (Jim_Wynne @ June 08 2015,10:42)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 07 2015,23:46)
And how about this one? N.Wells?
   
Quote
Zietsch & Santtila’s study is not evidence against the by-product theory of female orgasm
Kim Wallen, P. Z. Myers, Elisabeth A. Lloyd

The adaptive significance of women’s orgasm remains a topic of debate, with little agreement on a specific adaptation and the preponderance of evidence consistent with women’s orgasm being a by-product of strong selection on orgasm in men. Zietsch & Santtila (2011) entered into this debate by investigating the intersexual phenotypic correlation between measures of orgasmic function in monozygotic (MZ) and dizygotic (DZ) opposite-sexed twins in an attempt to provide evidence of whether orgasm in women is an evolutionary adaptation or a by-product of strong selection on male orgasm with its accompanying ejaculation. Zietsch & Santtila (2011) reported significant within-sex correlations among both MZ and same-sex DZ twins in orgasmic function, but not among opposite-sex DZ twins. They interpreted this lack of significant correlations in opposite-sexed DZ twins as evidence against the by-product explanation of women’s orgasm, arguing that strong selection on male orgasmic function should have resulted in a correlated expression of orgasm in their twin sisters. We find this is a misinterpretation of their data and present three arguments that invalidate their conclusion and analysis.

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...._orgasm

What is your objection to that paper?

It's not exactly an objection. After PZ Myers said I coauthored a letter to Animal Behaviour with Lloyd and Wallen on evo biology I was imagining something at least slightly related to my science work (in-between all the obligatory warm and fuzzy selection did-it answers), which involves figuring out things like how a neocortex works and is expressed in the resulting animal behavior. Well, you can imagine my surprise after I read the title that ended with some "by-product theory of female orgasm" that had me laughing so hard my face started hurting!!

In other words, you were in effect a pubescent kid who overheard adults talking about the naughty bits and thought it was hilarious.

--------------
Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,10:57   

Quote (N.Wells @ June 09 2015,07:01)
Being an autodidact is fine, and can be something to be very proud of - Bill Gates and Leonardo da Vinci are excellent examples of accomplished autodidacts.  

Not exactly.  Bill Gates did his autodidactifying at the most expensive high school in the Pacific Northwest, then at Harvard.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,11:12   

There is an excellent book, available as a pdf on-line last time I checked, called "The Independent Scholar's Handbook".

It might of interest to some here; it should be of interest to Laddy GaGa, but it doesn't have pictures nor bright shiny words he can steal, so he'll undoubtedly ignore it.

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,11:19   

Quote (JohnW @ June 09 2015,10:57)
Quote (N.Wells @ June 09 2015,07:01)
Being an autodidact is fine, and can be something to be very proud of - Bill Gates and Leonardo da Vinci are excellent examples of accomplished autodidacts.  

Not exactly.  Bill Gates did his autodidactifying at the most expensive high school in the Pacific Northwest, then at Harvard.

True, but in my defense I was thinking of him in terms of primarily teaching himself programming and dropping out of college
see Malcolm Gladwell, Outliers, &
http://www.slate.com/article....ts.html

Thanks for the correction.

  
dazz



Posts: 247
Joined: Mar. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,16:43   

GG should meet this guy

http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?....=50&p=1

Another crackpot who thinks he proved the (non existing) theory of ID based on a pattern derived from the Star Trek TV series. Yes, you read that right, apparently god is a trekkie too!

Someone needs to do a sequel of Dumb & Dumber with these two guys, oh boy what a laugh

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,17:50   

Quote (N.Wells @ June 09 2015,09:01)
Some quotes regarding difficulties for people in self-teaching situations, from Kirschner & van Merriënboer (2012) at  http://www.learnlab.org/research/wiki/images/4/4d/Kirschner-Merrienboer-2013.pdf
       
Quote
they also do not have the knowledge to adequately determine the relevance or truth of what they have found

       
Quote
have problems finding the information that they are seeking but also often trust the first thing they see, making them prone to “the pitfalls of ignorance, falsehoods, cons and scams”

       
Quote
lack regulatory skills and have difficulties defining the information problem; identifying what they do not know.

   
Quote
 it is what one already knows that determines what one sees and understands and not the other way around. Thus, prior knowledge largely determines how we search, find, select, and process (i.e., evaluate) information

In my opinion it's the other way around. But it's no surprise to me that researchers representing academia are biased. That could easily be due to all the gaps in their own learning that are caused by following the crowd that believes that what they were taught cannot be wrong, or incomplete to the point that it is misleading. That is perhaps why academia is so polarized by the ID controversy, while an experienced self-learner such as myself sees the gaps in what is being taught as gospel truth and the cliff you're all marching towards.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,18:03   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 09 2015,15:50)
That is perhaps why academia is so polarized by the ID controversy...

Citation needed.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,18:08   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 09 2015,18:50)
...
In my opinion it's the other way around.

As always, you're not qualified to judge.  You're free to hold whatever opinion you care to, of course, but no one cares.
 
Quote
But it's no surprise to me that researchers representing academia are biased.

While you are the very pinnacle of unbiased judgement. roflmao
 
Quote
That could easily be due to all the gaps in their own learning that are caused by following the crowd that believes that what they were taught cannot be wrong, or incomplete to the point that it is misleading. That is perhaps why academia is so polarized by the ID controversy, while an experienced self-learner such as myself sees the gaps in what is being taught as gospel truth and the cliff you're all marching towards.

You seriously believe that there is academic polarization over ID?
Good lord, you're even more delusional than we thought!
And doubtlessly you are incredibly distant from any academic setting.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,18:15   

Quote (Jim_Wynne @ June 09 2015,09:14)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 08 2015,19:47)
 
Quote (Jim_Wynne @ June 08 2015,10:42)
   
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 07 2015,23:46)
And how about this one? N.Wells?
     
Quote
Zietsch & Santtila’s study is not evidence against the by-product theory of female orgasm
Kim Wallen, P. Z. Myers, Elisabeth A. Lloyd

The adaptive significance of women’s orgasm remains a topic of debate, with little agreement on a specific adaptation and the preponderance of evidence consistent with women’s orgasm being a by-product of strong selection on orgasm in men. Zietsch & Santtila (2011) entered into this debate by investigating the intersexual phenotypic correlation between measures of orgasmic function in monozygotic (MZ) and dizygotic (DZ) opposite-sexed twins in an attempt to provide evidence of whether orgasm in women is an evolutionary adaptation or a by-product of strong selection on male orgasm with its accompanying ejaculation. Zietsch & Santtila (2011) reported significant within-sex correlations among both MZ and same-sex DZ twins in orgasmic function, but not among opposite-sex DZ twins. They interpreted this lack of significant correlations in opposite-sexed DZ twins as evidence against the by-product explanation of women’s orgasm, arguing that strong selection on male orgasmic function should have resulted in a correlated expression of orgasm in their twin sisters. We find this is a misinterpretation of their data and present three arguments that invalidate their conclusion and analysis.

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...._orgasm

What is your objection to that paper?

It's not exactly an objection. After PZ Myers said I coauthored a letter to Animal Behaviour with Lloyd and Wallen on evo biology I was imagining something at least slightly related to my science work (in-between all the obligatory warm and fuzzy selection did-it answers), which involves figuring out things like how a neocortex works and is expressed in the resulting animal behavior. Well, you can imagine my surprise after I read the title that ended with some "by-product theory of female orgasm" that had me laughing so hard my face started hurting!!

In other words, you were in effect a pubescent kid who overheard adults talking about the naughty bits and thought it was hilarious.

My prior experience with PZ's animal behavior work such as the "You are a meat robot with a network of autopilots" article made whatever could possibly be in a paper on the origin of female orgasms has to be taken with a good dose of humor.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,18:22   

Quote (JohnW @ June 09 2015,18:03)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 09 2015,15:50)
That is perhaps why academia is so polarized by the ID controversy...

Citation needed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...._design

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,18:39   

Quote
PZ Myers

Sunday, June 07, 2015 7:33:00 PM

Since it was published in 2012, I guess that means they have respect my authoritah until 2022.


Quote
Gary Gaulin

Sunday, June 07, 2015 11:17:00 PM

PZ, is this science or religion?

http://theoryofid.blogspot.com/....pot.com

Quote

PZ Myers

Monday, June 08, 2015 6:25:00 AM

Neither. It's just nonsense.


PZ spends the appropriate amount of time analyzing Gary's Garbage

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,18:53   

Quote
while an experienced self-learner such as myself

Assuming facts not in evidence.  You are evidently an incompetent autodidact, not a good one, where it comes to English and science.

Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 09 2015,18:22)
 
Quote (JohnW @ June 09 2015,18:03)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 09 2015,15:50)
That is perhaps why academia is so polarized by the ID controversy...

Citation needed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki......._design

That's not "academia being polarized by the ID controversy", that's everybody in academia agreeing that ID is rubbish.  No controversy, no polarization.

Gary fails to understand what an operational definition is, but now understands it to be part of science, so he wants his critics to have one:
Quote
Oh and I'll also need your "testable" operational definition for intelligence. You probably already missed mine:

A behavior from any system qualifies as intelligent behavior by meeting all four circuit requirements for this ability, which are: [1] something to control (body or modeling platform) with motor muscles (proteins, electric speaker, electronic write to a screen), [2] Random Access Memory (RAM) addressed by sensory sensors where each motor action and its associated confidence value are separate data elements, [3] confidence (central hedonic, homeostasis) system that increments (stored in memory) confidence value of a successful motor action else decrements the confidence value, [4] guess mechanism for a new memory action when associated confidence level sufficiently decreases. For flagella powered cells a random guess response (to a new heading) is designed into the motor system by the action of reversing motor direction causing it to “tumble”.
Besides being funnier than crap in an "Emporer's New Clothes" sense, his demand is also irrelevant since his critics aren't trying to measure something.

There was an apt response by Photosynthesis:
Quote
photosynthesisMonday, June 08, 2015 8:42:00 AM

Gary, There's no need for testing. Your shit is nonsense, therefore it would be nonsense to "test" it. To test it we would have to take it seriously, but it lacks at all levels, from philosophical to scientific, that it would be just a waste of time. You're an idiot Gary. Get it already. You're an idiot and only you think that you have the key to all the questions of life, the universe and everything. That's the very definition of self-delusion. Grow up already. You're not what you think you are. You're just an idiot.  

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2015,19:40   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 09 2015,16:22)
Quote (JohnW @ June 09 2015,18:03)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 09 2015,15:50)
That is perhaps why academia is so polarized by the ID controversy...

Citation needed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki......._design

I see we can add "polarized" to the ever-lengthening list of words you use without understanding, Gary.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: June 10 2015,01:42   

Quote (JohnW @ June 09 2015,19:40)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 09 2015,16:22)
Quote (JohnW @ June 09 2015,18:03)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 09 2015,15:50)
That is perhaps why academia is so polarized by the ID controversy...

Citation needed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki......._design

I see we can add "polarized" to the ever-lengthening list of words you use without understanding, Gary.

If mainstream academia were non-polar then there would be no strong opinion one way or another. Like a non-polar molecule the individual charges/opinions would balance out. Almost all would be waiting for further evidence before deciding one way or another.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: June 10 2015,02:38   

Quote (dazz @ June 09 2015,16:43)
GG should meet this guy

http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?....=50&p=1

Another crackpot who thinks he proved the (non existing) theory of ID based on a pattern derived from the Star Trek TV series. Yes, you read that right, apparently god is a trekkie too!

Someone needs to do a sequel of Dumb & Dumber with these two guys, oh boy what a laugh

I scanned through their paper. If I were reviewing it for a publisher then I would have to say it contains no theory (explaining how intelligent cause works) and has to be rejected.

As often happens in academia the issue is reduced to the opinion of one person (or group) versus another. To get to the scientific core of the issue I don't care what either side says. Regardless of easily being interpreted as a religious statement what matters is whether the stated premise of the theory can somehow be put into scientific context. That is why the all important premise of the theory in my signature line, and I'm easily annoyed by the "He said she said" arguments.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 10 2015,07:53   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 10 2015,02:42)
Quote (JohnW @ June 09 2015,19:40)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 09 2015,16:22)
 
Quote (JohnW @ June 09 2015,18:03)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 09 2015,15:50)
That is perhaps why academia is so polarized by the ID controversy...

Citation needed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki......._design

I see we can add "polarized" to the ever-lengthening list of words you use without understanding, Gary.

If mainstream academia were non-polar then there would be no strong opinion one way or another. Like a non-polar molecule the individual charges/opinions would balance out. Almost all would be waiting for further evidence before deciding one way or another.

This is so laughably insane it's not even wrong.

You're really not at all good at analogies, Gary.  Not that you're good at anything else, but this one is beyond absurd.

Your assertion that 'non-polar' in your terms would mean a perfect balance of opinions on all matters undercuts the very notion of knowledge.
There is no compromise between knowledge and error.
There is no 'balance' between those who know  that 2+2=4 and those who believe that it might sometimes equal 'horse'.  Or 5.  Or pi.
Or those who believe the proofs that pi has infinitely many decimal digits versus those who believe that pi will come to an end and is not, in fact, infinite in length when expressed as a written decimal form.
Or those who believe in theistic evolution, those who believe in the various 'poof' theories, and those who accept the evidence and logic behind the modern evolutionary synthesis.

Of course, it's no surprise that you are clueless about academia, never having participated in it.
But simple logic (something else in which you have, apparently, never participated or comprehended) should show how ridiculous your tossed-off assertion really is.

I'd tell you to think before you write, but that would silence the endless output of inanities, such as your vapid and useless 'foundational premise'.

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 10 2015,08:11   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 10 2015,03:38)
...
As often happens in academia the issue is reduced to the opinion of one person (or group) versus another. To get to the scientific core of the issue I don't care what either side says. Regardless of easily being interpreted as a religious statement what matters is whether the stated premise of the theory can somehow be put into scientific context. That is why the all important premise of the theory in my signature line, and I'm easily annoyed by the "He said she said" arguments.

Let's add 'opinion' to that list of words Gary doesn't comprehend or use correctly.  Otherwise known as the English dictionary.
The 'stated premise' of your "theory" is vapid, inane, unscientific, sterile, and impotent.
It implies nothing whatever, being merely the wildest possible generalization [by the man who rails against alleged 'generalizations' in ideas and theories he both fails to understand and rejects despite, or perhaps because of, his ignorance].
NO ONE, disputes the premise.
EVERYONE, except, of course, you, wants to know *which*  features.  How does one determine that a 'feature' requires explanation by recourse to an 'intelligent cause'?  What is 'intelligence'?  etc.
All of these questions have been avoided by you for 8+ years, despite their foundational importance.  Your 'premise' is nothing of the sort.  Your refusal to clarify it or reduce any part of it to the concrete, or at least to well-founded abstractions, simply reinforces the universal opinion that you are a lunatic engaging with yourself in a 'he said she said' discussion while minuscule fractions of the rest of the world watches and laughs.

  
Jim_Wynne



Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 10 2015,11:48   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 10 2015,02:38)
Quote (dazz @ June 09 2015,16:43)
GG should meet this guy

http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?....=50&p=1

Another crackpot who thinks he proved the (non existing) theory of ID based on a pattern derived from the Star Trek TV series. Yes, you read that right, apparently god is a trekkie too!

Someone needs to do a sequel of Dumb & Dumber with these two guys, oh boy what a laugh

I scanned through their paper. If I were reviewing it for a publisher then I would have to say it contains no theory (explaining how intelligent cause works) and has to be rejected.

As often happens in academia the issue is reduced to the opinion of one person (or group) versus another. To get to the scientific core of the issue I don't care what either side says. Regardless of easily being interpreted as a religious statement what matters is whether the stated premise of the theory can somehow be put into scientific context. That is why the all important premise of the theory in my signature line, and I'm easily annoyed by the "He said she said" arguments.

Quote
I scanned through their paper. If I were reviewing it for a publisher then I would have to say it contains no theory (explaining how intelligent cause works) and has to be rejected.

What does "scanned" mean? Does it mean that you didn't read the whole thing carefully and test its results for yourself? Do you consider that to be scientifically ethical--to make a judgment on the basis of "scanning"?  Isn't that the same thing you often complain about, that people haven't "studied" your "theory" before deciding it's worthless?  Isn't that a bit hypocritical on your part?

You say it should be rejected because it "...contains no theory (explaining how intelligent cause works)..." Was the purpose of the paper to present research results regarding how intelligence works?  I don't think so.  So it seems you would reject any paper that doesn't present a theory explaining how intelligence works, even if the authors don't make that claim?

On the basis of "scanning" the paper, would you agree with the characterization of the authors as crackpots?  Why or why not?

--------------
Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: June 10 2015,16:43   

Quote (Jim_Wynne @ June 10 2015,11:48)
What does "scanned" mean? Does it mean that you didn't read the whole thing carefully and test its results for yourself? Do you consider that to be scientifically ethical--to make a judgment on the basis of "scanning"?  Isn't that the same thing you often complain about, that people haven't "studied" your "theory" before deciding it's worthless?  Isn't that a bit hypocritical on your part?

You say it should be rejected because it "...contains no theory (explaining how intelligent cause works)..." Was the purpose of the paper to present research results regarding how intelligence works?  I don't think so.  So it seems you would reject any paper that doesn't present a theory explaining how intelligence works, even if the authors don't make that claim?

On the basis of "scanning" the paper, would you agree with the characterization of the authors as crackpots?  Why or why not?

Scanned means I went through it carefully enough so that if there was useful information pertaining to how intelligent cause works then I would have found it.

In this case giving the odds of something happening is like saying that the odds of winning a lottery drawing are so remote there can be no winner unless God intervened. I would need to see some kind of evidence that intelligence was involved, which would first require explaining how intelligence works then explaining how that is related to genetic systems. Is that in there?

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
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