Joe G
Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007
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| Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 07 2012,07:33) | Joe, none of the present topic of conversation has anything to do with biology. At all...
That's the first hurdle we have to clear.
The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics (which you claim prevent life from arising from non-life) is a simple equation that governs how heat flows and how we can track the useful work. That's all.
It has nothing to do with life, complexity, or information. Zero.
You have used basic schoolyard tactics. "No, I really understand it, but I don't think you do, so explain it." Whatever.
It is noted that you do not understand the basics of thermodynamics. Even to the point of understanding what it actually applies to.
You see, as you completely failed to understand 5-6 pages ago. There are rules that govern how things happen in our universe.
Here are few of those basic rules:
Heat flows toward an equilibrium.
Matter attempts to find the most stable form with the lowest potential energy.
Likes attract, opposites repel.
Using those three rules, we can pretty much define all of chemistry, which defines what atoms and molecules do.
Now, back to my example, since you obviously don't understand the second law. I would have actually accepted several answers, since I didn't fully define the problem. But the basic statement is that in a closed system, water cannot disassociate into hydrogen and oxygen. Why? Because it requires an input of energy to do (220 kilo calories per mole of water (and how much water is in a mole Joe... mass please?)).
In a closed system, there is no input of energy. And that is where all of the creationist complaints about the 2nd law fail. In a closed system, it would be impossible for life as we know it to form, grown, develop, reproduce, etc.
Yet, we actually see living things grow, develop, move, etc. Therefore, the conclusion that creationists know what they are talking about is wrong.
Now, since I wasn't specific, I will allow you to assume that there was sufficient energy to decompose all the mole of water into hydrogen and oxygen. What happens then? The entropy of the water has decreased (ZOMG!??!?!?! Seriously). Yes, 220 kilocalories of heat energy were used to break the atomic bonds.
So what happens when they recombine? Nothing because they will not spontaneously recombine. There is a reaction hurdle there. O2 and H2 are pretty stable molecules and the tendency is for them not to react unless more energy is used to get them over the first hurdle.
If you have that small spark of energy, then that energy is non-recoverable, even during the process of capturing the energy of the explosion. The total entropy of the system decreases... due to waste heat. Just a little bit, but it does.
That's how thermodynamics works and that's ALL that it does.
Are you now ready for Kevin's information challenge? This has nothing to do with evolution either. Once again, this will show that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and that the 'principles' of ID are utterly without value.
Are you going to man up and defend ID or let everyone on the planet just assume that it's useless. Remember Joe, this has nothing to do with evolution. This is purely ID principles here.
Once again, you don't even know what my position is, much less if I have or can defend it.
BTW: I still note that the Dawkins quote with book/journal and page number is curiously absent from your statements. Joe, seriously, I'm not defending my argument because you have yet to make a single verifiable claim against my argument.
You said (paraphrase) Dawkins said the blind watchmaker is how evolution must happen. I'll go look it up in a minute. It's buried behind 4-5 pages of you telling people they are stupid (projection).
I know you have trouble with more than two sentences in memory... so I'll let you parse out the proper response (hint: It doesn't involve insults or threats). |
Well Kevbo- all you have to do is step and and demonstrate that a living organism can arise from non-living matter via blind and undirected chemical processes and I will stand refuted.
Until then all you have is blah, blah, blah
BTW nice strawman wrt to creationists...
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"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth
"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton
Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code- Acartia bogart, TARD
YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism
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