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stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,01:49    Let me clarify. 'Genetic entropy' is not why front-loading is wrong, because genetic entropy is a pile of shit. If some DNA was front-loaded but currently dormant, it would gradually accumulate errors which would disable whatever it was supposed to do later.

Chayanov Posts: 289 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,02:19    Quote Since the price of oil and other natural resources is in the news, it occurred to me that the wonderful usefulness of petroleum, gold, copper, aluminum, iron, titanium and all the others is quite a happy coincidence. Why should these wonderful resources be laying just beneath the surface for us to use on this particular planet? It hardly seems we could have evolved into beings who would find these things useful to ourselves, since we had to become highly intelligent beings to make anything useful of them in the first place. Monkeys don't find gold useful, but we do, therefore God. I think he's stretching it to include himself among those "highly intelligent beings." -------------- Help! Marxist literary critics are following me!

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,02:43    Quote “I once asked a juvenile felon why he chose a life of crime. His response was chilling: “Joel, if this is all there is, why not?” Understanding Intelligent Design takes a great first step toward correcting such attitudes. Our schools indoctrinate young people into thinking that they are nothing more than products of time plus chance plus natural selection. ID, by contrast, shows that purpose must be added to this equation. This automatically gives young people a meaning to their existence, something to live for and something to seek after. For anyone who is struggling to understand our place in the cosmos or knows a young person who is, give them Understanding Intelligent Design.” –Joel Borofsky, Worldview Blogger (www.thechristianwatershed.com) Jesus Christ on a Bicycle!  When you are reduced to quoting endorsements from Joel Borofsky ... The next indignity is being refused service at the Brazos Barbecue.

Advocatus Diaboli Posts: 198 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,06:16    Quote (Richardthughes @ June 29 2008,23:51) “This book is long overdue! Finally, an understandable, engaging, and well-written introduction to intelligent design. Understanding Intelligent Design is the best book of its type.” –J.P. Moreland, Distinguished Professor of Philosophy, Biola University and author of Kingdom Triangle Its about time! After reading Intelligent Design, Design Revolution, Signs of Intelligence and other books, finally, there's a understandable, engaging, and well-written introduction to intelligent design! -------------- I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong. "I freely admit I’m a sociopath" - DaveScot "Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova "UD is the greatest website of all time." stevestory

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,07:17    Quote (Bob O'H @ June 30 2008,01:37) bFast 06/29/2008 11:57 pm Tard Alert! Russ, I also have been toying with the same thought line. Have you ever considered milk? The stuff separates into milk and cream very easily. Yet I don’t know of this phenomenon being used in nature. The cream, once shaken, turns into cottage cheese, butter and butter milk. With a little common bacteria, you get cheese. Yogurt is just about as easy to make. Does this give you the feeling that these varieties were waiting to be discovered — like hidden treasure? It’s just all too easy to find such wonderful, yet unimplemented properties in nature. [/quote] Perhaps bfast should google "lactose tolerance" and its evolutionary history/explanation. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,07:23    Quote (CeilingCat @ June 30 2008,03:43) Quote “I once asked a juvenile felon why he chose a life of crime. His response was chilling: “Joel, if this is all there is, why not?” Understanding Intelligent Design takes a great first step toward correcting such attitudes. Our schools indoctrinate young people into thinking that they are nothing more than products of time plus chance plus natural selection. ID, by contrast, shows that purpose must be added to this equation. This automatically gives young people a meaning to their existence, something to live for and something to seek after. For anyone who is struggling to understand our place in the cosmos or knows a young person who is, give them Understanding Intelligent Design.” –Joel Borofsky, Worldview Blogger (www.thechristianwatershed.com) Jesus Christ on a Bicycle!  When you are reduced to quoting endorsements from Joel Borofsky ... The next indignity is being refused service at the Brazos Barbecue. That purpose being, of course, to buy ID books and related merchandise. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,07:50    Bullying blowhard Kairosfocus is back   Quote On milk, note that cows often make more than their calves seem to strictly need. therefore design One wonders are the "cows" he's speaking of the ancestral cow "kind" or the modern cow that's been bred to, er, maximise milk output? Tard I think he should be asked :) -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,07:56    Quote (Lou FCD @ June 30 2008,07:17)     Quote (Bob O'H @ June 30 2008,01:37) bFast 06/29/2008 11:57 pm Tard Alert! Russ, I also have been toying with the same thought line. Have you ever considered milk? The stuff separates into milk and cream very easily. Yet I don’t know of this phenomenon being used in nature. The cream, once shaken, turns into cottage cheese, butter and butter milk. With a little common bacteria, you get cheese. Yogurt is just about as easy to make. Does this give you the feeling that these varieties were waiting to be discovered — like hidden treasure? It’s just all too easy to find such wonderful, yet unimplemented properties in nature. Perhaps bfast should google "lactose tolerance" and its evolutionary history/explanation. More deep thinking, this time from the GEM of TKI.     Quote On milk, note that cows often make more than their calves seem to strictly need. Dog [and pigeon] breeds are illustrations of ARTIFICIAL selection — as Darwin himself knew and acknowledged. And we all know that modern dairy cows are definitely NOT the products of artificial breeding; they are exactly like the aurochs from the Pleistocene. Ummm, errr, I mean the oxen of the Old Testament. Tard. -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

dogdidit Posts: 315 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,08:22    Quote (Chayanov @ June 30 2008,02:19)     Quote Since the price of oil and other natural resources is in the news, it occurred to me that the wonderful usefulness of petroleum, gold, copper, aluminum, iron, titanium and all the others is quite a happy coincidence. Why should these wonderful resources be laying just beneath the surface for us to use on this particular planet? It hardly seems we could have evolved into beings who would find these things useful to ourselves, since we had to become highly intelligent beings to make anything useful of them in the first place. Monkeys don't find gold useful, but we do, therefore God. I think he's stretching it to include himself among those "highly intelligent beings." Yes, the Earth's crust is provdentially filled with oil and copper and titanium but not one stinking magnetic monopole or dilithium crystal. All of the resources convenient to intelligent minds for constructing telescopes and observatories with which to stare longingly at distant worlds circling distant stars and none of the unobtanium needed to reach them. That God is a real practical joker, he is. -------------- "Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,09:28    Quote (stevestory @ June 30 2008,01:49) Let me clarify. 'Genetic entropy' is not why front-loading is wrong, because genetic entropy is a pile of shit. If some DNA was front-loaded but currently dormant, it would gradually accumulate errors which would disable whatever it was supposed to do later. But a front loader can move dung faster than mere entropy. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Annyday Posts: 583 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,09:30    Quote (Lou FCD @ June 30 2008,07:17) Quote (Bob O'H @ June 30 2008,01:37) bFast 06/29/2008 11:57 pm Tard Alert! Russ, I also have been toying with the same thought line. Have you ever considered milk? The stuff separates into milk and cream very easily. Yet I don’t know of this phenomenon being used in nature. The cream, once shaken, turns into cottage cheese, butter and butter milk. With a little common bacteria, you get cheese. Yogurt is just about as easy to make. Does this give you the feeling that these varieties were waiting to be discovered — like hidden treasure? It’s just all too easy to find such wonderful, yet unimplemented properties in nature. [/quote] Perhaps bfast should google "lactose tolerance" and its evolutionary history/explanation. How can you state that a little common bacteria can make cheese and then turn around and say that nature has not implemented something wonderful? Cheese is made by bacteria, here. We digest cheese and milk alike in our intestines, with the help of ... bacteria, again. We also digest different sugars and fats with different enzymes, which is its own bag of fun. There's so much evolution in this story it's horrifying. -------------- "ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,09:46    Quote StephenB: The universe is a very, very big place, measuring something like 15 billion light years across. That's the *age* of the known universe. The universe is actually at least 156 billion light-years across (radius of 26 Gpc), as shown by Cornish et al. in Constraining the Topology of the Universe based on data from the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe. (Consider that the distance light traveled in a year during the early universe has been stretched by the cosmic expansion.) Astronomers size up the Universe -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Gunthernacus Posts: 235 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,10:08    Quote (stevestory @ June 30 2008,02:38) Dembski:       Quote I was particularly concerned in writing the book to inoculate young people not only against the atheistic poison of Dawkins and Co. but also against the theological and scientific confusions of theistic evolutionists (like Ken Miller and Francis Collins). If this book does its job, both these camps will lose much of their traction with young people. Wasn't that the purpose of Overwhelming Evidence? How's that going Bill? And "Of Pandas and People" and "Exploring Evolution" and "The Design of Life" and IDURC... -------------- Given that we are all descended from Adam and Eve...genetic defects as a result of intra-family marriage would not begin to crop up until after the first few dozen generations. - Dr. Hugh Ross

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,10:37    If you go to IDURC and click on the "what's new" link you are shown this:   Quote Not Found The requested URL /whatsnew.htm was not found on this server. How apt. http://www.idurc.org/whatsnew.htm EDIT: anybody find anything on the site newer then 2005? -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,10:43    Quote bornagain77: I also inquired of Dr. Vreeland for such a fitness test and was rather bruskly told something to the effect that “only creationists would ask a question like that”. Perhaps that's because fitness is not an absolute, but depends on the environment. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,11:08    Quote (Lou FCD @ June 30 2008,07:17) Quote (Bob O'H @ June 30 2008,01:37) bFast 06/29/2008 11:57 pm Tard Alert! Russ, I also have been toying with the same thought line. Have you ever considered milk? The stuff separates into milk and cream very easily. Yet I don’t know of this phenomenon being used in nature. The cream, once shaken, turns into cottage cheese, butter and butter milk. With a little common bacteria, you get cheese. Yogurt is just about as easy to make. Does this give you the feeling that these varieties were waiting to be discovered — like hidden treasure? It’s just all too easy to find such wonderful, yet unimplemented properties in nature. [/quote] Perhaps bfast should google "lactose tolerance" and its evolutionary history/explanation. Add a banana to yout milk for a perfectly designed shake. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Gunthernacus Posts: 235 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,11:38    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ June 30 2008,11:37) If you go to IDURC and click on the "what's new" link you are shown this:       Quote Not Found The requested URL /whatsnew.htm was not found on this server. How apt. http://www.idurc.org/whatsnew.htm EDIT: anybody find anything on the site newer then 2005? Nothing since Dover.  The Search link takes you to a "Comming Soon" page, though. -------------- Given that we are all descended from Adam and Eve...genetic defects as a result of intra-family marriage would not begin to crop up until after the first few dozen generations. - Dr. Hugh Ross

Chayanov Posts: 289 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,11:59    Quote Add a banana to yout milk for a perfectly designed shake. Isn't it amazing how the glass is perfectly designed to hold the shake? Therefore, God! -------------- Help! Marxist literary critics are following me!

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,13:31    Quote (Chayanov @ June 30 2008,09:59) Quote Add a banana to yout milk for a perfectly designed shake. Isn't it amazing how the glass is perfectly designed to hold the shake? Therefore, God! And the banana is perfectly designed to fit up your... never mind. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

Advocatus Diaboli Posts: 198 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,13:39    Quote (JohnW @ June 30 2008,13:31)   Quote (Chayanov @ June 30 2008,09:59)   Quote Add a banana to yout milk for a perfectly designed shake. Isn't it amazing how the glass is perfectly designed to hold the shake? Therefore, God! And the banana is perfectly designed to fit up your... never mind. Not that there's anything wrong with that! -------------- I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong. "I freely admit I’m a sociopath" - DaveScot "Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova "UD is the greatest website of all time." stevestory

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,15:54    stevestory   Quote Wasn't that the purpose of Overwhelming Evidence? How's that going Bill? I've collected some current developments and data on OE here. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

Fross Posts: 71 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,19:39    Quote (Chayanov @ June 30 2008,11:59) Quote Add a banana to yout milk for a perfectly designed shake. Isn't it amazing how the glass is perfectly designed to hold the shake? Therefore, God! You have that backwards.  The shake is perfectly shaped to fit into the glass.   Therefore God. -------------- "For everything else, there's Mastertard"

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,20:01    Quote (Fross @ June 30 2008,20:39) Quote (Chayanov @ June 30 2008,11:59) Quote Add a banana to yout milk for a perfectly designed shake. Isn't it amazing how the glass is perfectly designed to hold the shake? Therefore, God! You have that backwards.  The shake is perfectly shaped to fit into the glass.   Therefore God. But obviously they are irreducibly complex, and could not have possibly evolved separately, because the one is useless without the other.  Take away the glass, and the shake is non-functional.  Take away the shake, and the glass is empty. Therefore, God. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

fusilier Posts: 252 Joined: Feb. 2003 (Permalink) Posted: July 01 2008,08:47    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 29 2008,07:42) I had dinner at the Notre Dame University Club -- the week before it got torn down. Yeah, but did you ever eat at Frankies? Or get told by Terry Hanratty to get the hell out of Johnie's now before the South Bend cops arrived? -------------- fusilier James 2:24

Jim_Wynne Posts: 1208 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 01 2008,09:31    Back in the tard mine, in the Understanding Intelligent Design buy-my-book thread, Ekstasis rephrases the "What about PYGMIES + DWARFS??" question with regard to the idea that spices must have been a Divine Gift:   Quote And what about spices and seasonings? Why the big craving? Of course, we undertand why we need salt. But what about all those other bottles you find in your spice cabinet? Early humanity certainly did not offer curry and paprika and your other favorite flavorings on their roast whooly mammoth, so why the big deal? -------------- Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

Texas Teach Posts: 2084 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 01 2008,11:27    What's truly sad about that is there are anthropologists whose work focuses entirely on the study of cultural discovery and use of foods and spices.  There are multiple volumes written on the subject. Hey, IDiots,  read a book!!!   -------------- "Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr "I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

Cedric Katesby Posts: 55 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 01 2008,11:35    "What's truly sad about that is there are anthropologists whose work focuses entirely on the study of cultural discovery and use of foods and spices." I wouldn't mind betting that Deadman would have some interesting things to say on the subject. Anybody heard from him lately?

Chayanov Posts: 289 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 01 2008,12:33    Quote (Texas Teach @ July 01 2008,11:27) What's truly sad about that is there are anthropologists whose work focuses entirely on the study of cultural discovery and use of foods and spices.  There are multiple volumes written on the subject. Hey, IDiots,  read a book!!!  :angry: They could start with Marvin Harris' Good to Eat. Even a UDer could read and understand it. -------------- Help! Marxist literary critics are following me!

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 01 2008,12:36    Fair play to Dembksi for promoting this: http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-top....abulary -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Ra-Úl Posts: 93 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 01 2008,14:04    Quote (Cedric Katesby @ July 01 2008,11:35) "What's truly sad about that is there are anthropologists whose work focuses entirely on the study of cultural discovery and use of foods and spices." I wouldn't mind betting that Deadman would have some interesting things to say on the subject. Anybody heard from him lately? DM is over at the Talk Rational origins and evolution threads schooling ol' afdave. Along with other atbc iidb and Dawkins veterans like Eric Murphy. By the way, afdave is still wrong. Or he is even more wrong. Or something. The 'lunar craters were caused by a battle between Satan and the Angels' is a classic for the ages, with a lovely and admirably executed 180 by Dave; when a poster quoted one of Dave's beloved creo sources as having said that, Dave said "knee slapper", only to say this a few posts later: "Wow. I stand corrected. He DID write that on pp 66-67. Yes, I have the book. Amazing. I do see where he's coming from now though and I can follow his logic although I think it would be an impossible to theory to validate until we get to Heaven and ask God in person." Thomas Pynchon could not invent this guy. Ra-Ul -------------- Beauty is that which makes us desperate. - P Valery

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