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  Topic: How much fun is too much fun??, How mean is too mean< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2006,06:21   

OK, AF Dave (AKA moron) has just answered the question I asked at the beginning of this thread and now I believe that I can sum up the answer in a way that at least makes me feel good and that will satisfy my wish that Raging Bee not be too offended.

Here goes:

Have as much fun as you want, be as mean as you want as long as the fundy has met at least 3 of these requirements:

1. Answered a scientific question with a summary of a biblical concept.

2. Claimed to have evidence and not produced it.

3. produced evidence that is so laughable that you just can't answer with logic and evidence.

4. Used the words conservative or liberal to describe a broad section of the public that is bad/good.

5. Claimed that something must be true because x number of people believe it.

Once someone crosses that line, debate has ended and comedy has begun. And, I love comedy. So, wings, don't fail me now.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2006,09:55   

Quote
I think the best strategy would to be honest.  You've already made is clear that scientists will blur the line between science and ideology.  Nothing has been more clear since I've joined antievolution.

You and many others already make wild assumptions and dismiss relevant information.  This is clear to any discerning eye.


hmm, can someone point out ANYTHING in T-Diddy's response that isn't pure projection?

  
Paul Flocken



Posts: 290
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 27 2006,03:10   

Here is an interesting perspective on the idea that ridicule has value as a weapon of discourse:

Larry, Curly and Osama: Ridiculing terrorists as a weapon of war

By J. Michael Waller

OSAMA BIN LADEN says he doesn't fear dying. He says he fears being humiliated.

So let's give it to him.

Bin Laden and others have thrived on the almost obsessive American focus on them as personal rivals. We give them the coveted "Enemy of the Great Satan" brand whenever our national leaders single them out by name.

What would happen if we ridiculed the terrorists instead?

Would young people still flock to become "fighters" and suicide bombers? Would they still leave on their doomed missions with tearful support from their mothers, fathers, grandparents and the pretty girls at home, blessed by a cleric who justifies murder as a noble sacrifice in Allah's name?

Terrorism is psychological warfare: to accomplish much with little by manipulating people's perceptions, emotions and actions. That's why the terrorists like soft targets — innocent civilians in a skyscraper or mosque — that have little if any military value. The killings serve to terrorize civilized society, Muslim and otherwise. Ridicule strips the terrorist of his power. If we stop being afraid, we turn the icons of fear into objects of contempt.

The U.S. military may be developing its war-fighting skills to do just that. Recently it shattered the seemingly invincible persona of Al Qaeda leader Abu Musab Zarqawi, whose beheadings and bombings have terrorized Iraq and the world, by pairing his latest video release with captured raw outtakes.

The outtakes showed Zarqawi not as a fearsome fighter but as a confused, bumbling fat boy in American sneakers and a black ninja costume who couldn't figure out how to operate a simple machine gun. (And even if it wasn't simple, there was no way to know that from the outtakes.) For the first time ever, the world saw Zarqawi's weak side: a pudgy, vulnerable, even contemptible creature who can't fight like a real warrior.

To most Americans, ridiculing terrorists might seem trivial, even sophomoric, as a weapon of war. But dictators and terrorists, being unable to function in the free market of ideas, need propagandists to control (not merely spin) their public images. They require obedience or acquiescence — a fear factor that cannot long coexist with put-downs and snickering. (That's why, six months after taking power in 1959, Fidel Castro had signs placed in official buildings that read "Counterrevolutionary jokes forbidden here." One of the first publications he shutdown was Zig Zag, a humor magazine.)

Pride, honor and shame are profound in much of Arab Muslim culture. The Zarqawi video was devastating. That's why Iraqi television and other moderate Arab media gave it plenty of play.

The ancients of the Middle East understood the mortal power of ridicule. In the Talmud, the basis of Jewish law, the Hebrews proclaimed, "All mockery (leitzanut) is prohibited except for mockery of idol worship."

Muhammad, the founder of Islam, weaponized ridicule. From the third to fifth years of his annunciation as a prophet, Muhammad deployed warrior poets ahead of his invading armies to soften the targets through mockery and derision.

Back in simpler times, Americans reflexively ridiculed their enemies. In a 1940 episode of "The Three Stooges," Moe did a ridiculous impression of Hitler while Larry heiled as propaganda minister, and Curly dressed as Goering with his belly and buttocks festooned with medals.

When the U.S. entered World War II in 1941, the Army turned film studios into wartime propaganda mills. Humor about sacrifices at home and ridicule of the enemy were staples in Disney and Warner Bros. productions that starred Donald Duck and Bugs Bunny. (In fact, "Donald Duck in Nutziland" won an Academy Award in 1942.) To home audiences, the parody brought comfort and reassurance that, mighty as the enemy was, we could still defeat it.

In a January 2006 recorded message, Bin Laden signed off by saying: "I swear not to die but a free man even if I taste the bitterness of death. I fear to be humiliated or betrayed."

If he's not afraid to die, let's pour on the humiliation.

As long as the terrorists can make themselves look like fearsome winners — and as long as we inadvertently help them — they will always recruit followers. But nobody likes to follow a loser.

The link for that article.

The Bio of the author.

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"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,21:54   

But eventually you get tired. You have to have a string of Colberts and Lettermans and whatnot to keep the fire hot.

I have to admit, AFDave outlasted me. It's just boring now. Maybe I'm getting soft? Who knows. Skeptic was entertaining but I just ran out of things to say.  ???

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,07:04   

Quote
What would someone with "very few allegiances" base his "rational" debate on?


Compassion.

--------------
Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,09:56   

Quote
I have to admit, AFDave outlasted me. It's just boring now. Maybe I'm getting soft? Who knows. Skeptic was entertaining but I just ran out of things to say.  


nawww, you're just a little burned out on ol AFD.  go do something productive for a week or so, and when you come back, you'll again feel like pounding his head into soft mush with rapier wit again.

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"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 06 2006,17:09   

Quote
rapier wit

um. yeah. you're right. I'll be back.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
snoeman



Posts: 109
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 07 2006,17:43   

Quote (BWE @ June 06 2006,22:09)
Quote
rapier wit

um. yeah. you're right. I'll be back.

Ichthyic's advice is good in principle, but when you are back and in full ridicule mode, you should keep your metaphors un-mixed.

Instead of "pounding his head into soft mush" with your rapier wit, perhaps try "skewering repeatedly" - much more appropos of a weapon intended for stabbing.

However, if this isn't enough, you might consider upping the ridicule with the "bludgeon of satiric rhetoric."  This should be effective in all but the most extreme cases. (DaveScot, Salvador, etc.)

Of course, the best of both worlds will be found in the "Bludgeon of Satiric Rhetoric" with the "Nail of Biting Sarcasm" driven through one end.

Those who are wilfully ignorant, i.e., they choose to be so, deserve ridicule.

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 07 2006,19:07   

Ridicule, satire, sarcasm, irony, derision...it all works for me. These people we deal with desperately want to be taken seriously. AirHeadDave says he's whoopin' on the big mean sciemtishts while COMPARING himself to... Newton and Maxwell, I think it was-- Dembsky is the "Newton" of Information theory--Behe fancies himself to be slicker than whale poop and on and on.

Nothing works better for me than laying out the evidence to such egos and pointing a finger at them and laughing. I try not to bring in relatives, sexuality, race, educational level, status, etc, but everything else is fair game.

I DID taunt Thordaddy a bit with his gay obsession thing, but he just begs for that. Besides, he's so cute when he gets all red-faced-wound-up and clenches his tiny fists of rage.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
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