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Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 24 2006,04:29   

Since AFDave continues to shine us on with his promise to provide his positive evidence for Young Earth Creationism, I thought I'd give him a special thread just for that purpose.

Go on Dave, quit being a tease!  Start presenting that positive evidence for YEC and a literal Bible!  Suggested topics include

A literal Noah's flood
Evidence that the earth is only 6000+ years old
Definition and evidence for 'kinds'
Geocentric earth
Cattle genetics affected by striped and spotted rods

C'mon Dave, you've been quite entertaining so far, in a bumbling clown kinda way.  So put that big red nose back on you flight school washout, and edjamacate we evilutionists!

P.S. If you get stumped, you can always answer those questions about scientific peer review  ;)

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 24 2006,05:01   

Dave, it would be helpful if you start here.

This is an age appropriate overview of plate tectonics. :)  There are certainly nuances that this overview leaves out but from a specifically geological perspective, it summarizes core knowledge nicely.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 24 2006,06:55   

Why is it a good idea to start a new thread devoted to AFDave? He's got way too many as it is. If there was a way to merge all the AFD threads into one and delete the originals, I'd be all for it.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 24 2006,07:05   

I'd also not mind rolling AFDave up into one thread.

   
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 24 2006,07:11   

Agreed here as well.  Let's not start any more AFDave threads, unless there is some way to do it humorously.  If you can make us all laugh, then I might be open to it.  As it is though, he's not really funny.  He's just pathetic.

  
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 24 2006,09:56   

Quote
Why is it a good idea to start a new thread devoted to AFDave? He's got way too many as it is. If there was a way to merge all the AFD threads into one and delete the originals, I'd be all for it.


didn't Wes already attempt this?

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 24 2006,11:20   

I think it's just a little significant that Dave has yet to even post to this thread. I can't imagine he doesn't know it's here. It only adds further confirmation (if any were needed) that Dave doesn't actually have any YEC evidence.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 24 2006,11:28   

on the contrary, Dave has all the "evidence" HE needs.

I asked him point blank if he thought he had posted tons of evidence in his threads that the rest of us had simply ignored, to which he of course replied that he did.

What you saw him posting IS how he views evidence.

his mind works very differently from ours.  

Try to pretend you're speaking to a chimp that has no idea what we mean by evidence, and simply isn't capable of even grasping the concept.

no, wait, IIRC, didn't somebody recently demonstrate that a chimp could deductively reason that paint could cause color and not a knife?

so, put chimps above Dave.  I give up, you'll have to come up with another analogous critter that reasons like Dave, if there exists such a thing.

hmm, maybe Dave is the space alien Behe et. al. have been looking for?

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 24 2006,11:44   

Quote (ericmurphy @ May 24 2006,16:20)
I think it's just a little significant that Dave has yet to even post to this thread. I can't imagine he doesn't know it's here. It only adds further confirmation (if any were needed) that Dave doesn't actually have any YEC evidence.

I suspect AFD won't post here. He seems to be trying hard to conduct this 'debate' on his terms, not ours.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 24 2006,11:51   

But, you know, just for appearances' sake, and maybe to shut us up about how he ain't got nothin.' I mean, I wouldn't expect him to actually come up with evidence here, but it must be kind of embarrassing for him to know this thread is up here, and not to have even made an appearance...

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 24 2006,18:13   

AFDave Evasion Watch

27 days since AFDave made this promise of evidence to support his original GOD hypothesis YEC claims

     
Quote
Posted  by AFDave:  April 27 2006,19:10
No, Arlen, there are mountains of evidence ... maybe not evidence to your liking ... but there is evidence alright, and my guess is you've probably seen alot of it already ...

But that's OK, I'll be giving it again ...


23 days since AFDave's Updated GOD hypothesis with the same YEC claims

     
Quote
Postedby AFDave: May 01 2006,08:19
C. All of human kind descended from two genetically rich parents, Adam and Eve, but did not diversify significantly due to minimal geographic isolation.  My hypothesis proposes that there was only one large "super-continent" prior to the Great Flood of Noah, thus minimizing geographic isolation and resultant natural selection and specialization/diversification.  The same applies to animals except that I make no proposal as to HOW MANY animals there were initially.  Obviously, there would have to be at least one pair of each 'kind' (a term to be defined later)

D. Early man was created perfectly, i.e. no deleterious genetic mutations.  It is proposed that early man was vigorous, healthy and possibly taller than modern humans.  Early families were very large--on the order of 30 to 50 kids per couple and lives were long, many over 900 years.  Sons routinely married their sisters in the ante-diluvian world with no worries of genetic defects.  The first laws prohibiting close marriages did not occur until the time of Moses by which time we assume that accumulated harmful genetic mutations would have been a significant consideration.

E. Mankind chose NOT to do God's will very early on (just as all young children choose not to do parents' will), thus prompting God to institute a system for persuading humans to admit their folly and begin doing His will, for "redeeming" humans who choose this path, and for reminding humans that the present physical world is only a "proving ground" or "training camp" for the next world which will be created at a definite point in the future.  These events are commonly called the Fall and the Curse by Christian Theologians.

F. God allowed the choices of mankind to take their natural course for the most part, intervening in the affairs of men sporadically and briefly.  Most of the "day-to-day management" of Planet Earth was delegated to mankind himself, similar to how modern parents delegate the day-to-day management of their children to a school or a day care center.

G. The natural result of collective disobedience to the revealed will of God was an extremely corrupt society--i.e. rampant dishonesty, injustice, murder, theft, etc.--which was terminated by God through the agency of a global, life-destroying flood--the Flood of Noah described in Genesis.  

H. The Global Flood of Noah was an immense cataclysm of enormous tectonic, volcanic and hydraulic upheaval.  It completely reshaped the ante-diluvian world and resulted in massive, worldwide sedimentation and fossilization, mountain range uplift, sea basin lowering, continent separation, and climate change.  The Flood was survived in a floating ark by 8 humans (four couples) and one or more pairs of terrestrial, air-breathing, genetically rich animals and birds. The diversity we see in the living world today is the result of subsequent geographic separation and isolation of species and natural selection.

I. Following the Global Flood, we hypothesize an Ice Age of undetermined duration brought on by the massive climate changes induced by the Flood.  It was during this time that the dinosaurs and many other species died out. Since the time of the Ice Age, the structure of the earth's crust and the climate which followed, has not changed appreciably, and uniformitarian principles may now be applied to geological studies.

J. We hypothesize a supernatural intervention by God at the Tower of Babel which instantly and miraculously created several new languages (we think on the order of 12 or so), whereas prior to this event, there was only one language.



Still no positive evidence of YEC from AFDave

Presented as a public service for those who can't stand a liar of any belief, from atheist to religious fundy.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,09:56   

AFDave Evasion Watch

28    days since AFDave made his promise of evidence to support his original GOD hypothesis YEC claims.

24    days since AFDave's Updated GOD hypothesis with the same YEC claims

Still no positive evidence of YEC from AFDave

Presented as a public service for those who can't stand a liar of any belief, from atheist to religious fundy.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 25 2006,10:00   

Hmmm... still seems to be a lot of tumbleweeds and doors blowing open and shut in the wind, here...

Seriously, I don't think he's gonna show. AFD is very manly, you see, used to be in the Air Force and all, and he certainly isn't gonna let himself be pushed around by a bunch of liberals...

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Crabby Appleton



Posts: 250
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 26 2006,19:43   

Hey! He wasn't a flight school washout. He has seat time in both the T-38 and the UH-1, both of which are Phase 3 aircraft. He just couldn't finish his B-2 Training.

Maybe it was because he was doing too much 30,000/Mach 1 Geology while flying over the Grand Canyon? (What a Grand thing that Flood must have been! )

I always limited myself to Geology of the 50/50 type in the interest of safety of course.

  
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 26 2006,20:34   

new face? or did i miss it?

if not, welcome crabby.

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 27 2006,03:28   

AFDave Evasion Watch

30    days since AFDave made his promise of evidence to support his original GOD hypothesis YEC claims.

26    days since AFDave's Updated GOD hypothesis with the same YEC claims

Still no positive evidence of YEC from AFDave

Quote
AFDave,

Just a quick question:
Why AREN'T you presenting your YEC evidence?


--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

  
Paul Flocken



Posts: 290
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 27 2006,03:49   

Quote (Crabby Appleton @ May 27 2006,00:43)
Hey! He wasn't a flight school washout. He has seat time in both the T-38 and the UH-1, both of which are Phase 3 aircraft. He just couldn't finish his B-2 Training.

Maybe it was because he was doing too much 30,000/Mach 1 Geology while flying over the Grand Canyon? (What a Grand thing that Flood must have been! )

I always limited myself to Geology of the 50/50 type in the interest of safety of course.

Welcome Crabby,
I'm not Air Farce, my patriotic service was done on salt water, but I grew up in a mixed Army/AirForce household and am familiar enough with both to have suspicions about Dave's accomplishments.  But I don't know what you mean by "phase 3".  This would be something new to me; would you care to explain what it means?

Quote
AFDave,

Just a quick question:
Why AREN'T you presenting your YEC evidence?


--------------
"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

  
Crabby Appleton



Posts: 250
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 27 2006,19:37   

Yipper. I'm new, thanks for the welcomes.

Paul, I was a squid too.

My comment was about Air Force Special Undergrad Pilot Training (SUPT). There are three phases, Academic and Pre Flight, Primary Aircraft and Advanced Aircraft. The last is where you start to focus on a specialty. The T-38 pipeline leads to fighter/bomber track and UH-1 leads to choppers. With completion of the third phase you're considered a pilot and move on to your specialty.

AFDave claims seat time in a T-38 AND a UH-1 but he only  claims B-2 Simulator time. Sounds like he'd reached his level of Irreducible Complexity.

  
Paul Flocken



Posts: 290
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 28 2006,11:36   

Quote (Crabby Appleton @ May 28 2006,00:37)
Sounds like he'd reached his level of Irreducible Complexity.

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa
HeeHeeHee...HooHooHoo...HaHaHa

<shakes self><cough,cough>Ehem,

Brilliant Crabby, brilliant.

That is precisely what I thought, though I wasn't acquainted with exact terminology, and you did say it so much better.

When I was little the pilots down at Pope and Simmons were gods to me and they were certainly not shy about basking in the adulation they were buried under.  Yet AirFarceDave does not seem to want to bragg about the operational aircraft he flew.  Why wouldn't he also bragg about his basic and primary aircraft if that T-38 was so important to him.  (I don't know, does the Air Force still use Tweetybirds?)  And why would the Air Force waste time getting someone qualified in advanced jet trainers only to stick them in UH-1's?

Thanks Crabby, you made my day.

--------------
"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

  
Crabby Appleton



Posts: 250
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 28 2006,20:50   

Quote (Paul Flocken @ May 28 2006,16:36)
AirFarceDave does not seem to want to bragg about the operational aircraft he flew.  Why wouldn't he also bragg about his basic and primary aircraft if that T-38 was so important to him.  (I don't know, does the Air Force still use Tweetybirds?)  And why would the Air Force waste time getting someone qualified in advanced jet trainers only to stick them in UH-1's?

Thanks Crabby, you made my day.

They only use Tweetybirds when they're trying to hunt down puddycats.

His claimed Air Force record jumps out at anyone with experience for 3 reasons, seat time in 2 different phase 3 trainers (T-38 and Huey), the lack of operational aircraft experience and the track he seems to have been on, B-2 bomber.

Why didn't he finish B-2 training? The DoD doesn't like to spend large amounts of money training someone and NOT get some sort of return on their money. Two options come to mind, the B-2 was too complex for him as I've already alluded OR, since the B-2 is a nuclear weapons delivery system, maybe he wasn't considered mentally stable enough to finish training. I won't conjecture.

What to do with someone like this? You could use him as a T-38 instructor (if he's capable of that), or let him fly Hueys on S&R type missions till he's cashiered.

Either way he's NOT the AFStud he'd like us to believe.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 28 2006,21:05   

Interesting that he hasn't posted his "written language has only existed for 5,500 years, therefore the earth is only 6,000 years old" theory on this thread.

I'm assuming it's not because he's embarrassed by the scathing reception his "evidence" received. First, because he's clearly unembarrassable, and second, because he undoubtedly thinks he's scored another touchdown against those evilutionists.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2006,08:25   

the obvious answer is that it isn't his thread.

someone made the argument that he constantly wants us to do battle on his terms.

why would we expect he would want to present his "evidence" on our terms?

  
guthrie



Posts: 696
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2006,11:32   

Yes, in that sense he is just using good military tactics.
And in that vein, would you ex servicemen or whatever you like to call yourselves, care to explain in plain english what you are talking about with regards to Daves flying time?

  
Paul Flocken



Posts: 290
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2006,17:39   

Guthrie,
To answer you,
If you had flown the big, fast jetfighters of the airforce(say like the ones the Thunderbirds* fly or the Blue Angels fly for the Navy) would you bragg about the training aircraft you started out in?  The airforce also doesn't spend the money training a pilot for the big, fast jets and then waste it (pilots are not cheap), by assigning him to a helo squadron, without some cause.  Crabby's snide suggestion was that Dave was doing something in the air he shouldn't have been, ("Maybe it was because he was doing too much 30,000/Mach 1 Geology while flying over the Grand Canyon?), but that was more humor than serious speculation.  Conversely, DaveTard might have started out in helo's instead, but that doesn't make sense to me either.  People join the airforce because they want to fly jets.  People who want to fly helo's (hard to believe, but yes, they do exist) join the Army or the Marine Corps.  DaveTard is certainly a pilot, we're not suggesting that he is not, but I think that for some reason he was less than desirable for the airforce at the original role he started out in.  Crabby's final suggestion, that he was cashiered, is a bit more than I would suggest but who knows absent any real information from DaveTard.  Strangely, despite the mild aspersians we have cast on his career, he hasn't deigned to respond.  Is it possible we struck the right nerve with the right nail?  He served on active duty for ten years.  Long time with no operational aircraft sticktime for a pilot.  I know he's reading this thread because he actually answered Crabby, but he did it in another thread.  I presume to avoid getting caught in this thread.

Crabby's post:
Crabby Appleton @ May 27 2006,00:43
Quote
Hey! He wasn't a flight school washout. He has seat time in both the T-38 and the UH-1, both of which are Phase 3 aircraft. He just couldn't finish his B-2 Training.


AirFarceDaveTard's reply on page 27 of AF Dave's UPDATED Creator God Hypothesis
afdave @ May 27 2006,09:21
Quote
Good work Appleton ... just curious ... where did you find the info?  Oh ... and I didn't apply to the B-2 program.  Had no interest in being a bomber guy ... too boring.  I asked for the B-2 Sim Instructor position as a comfy "getting out" job.

Scroll down to the bottom of post #26(or fifth post up from the bottom if that is easier).

Oh yeah, bombers are too boring for manly AFDave, who apparently didn't fly anything more exciting than trainers or the most stolidly boring helicopter in the entire inventory.  (T-38's though, nonetheless, are sweet little aircraft.  I wouldn't turn my nose up at one.)  Come on Dave tell us a little more about your flying for the airforce.  It can't be as bad as I have disparaged.

*Incidentally the T-38 was actually used by the Thunderbirds in the late seventies and early eighties.  They were replaced by the F-16 in 1983.  Their use had more to do with economy than anything else because of the various oil crises(sp?) of the seventies.  The Thunderbirds actually lost part of a show year because of fuel costs.

--------------
"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

  
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2006,17:51   

why does this kinda feel like shining a magnifying glass on an ant?

... don't stop 'till he starts to smoke, tho.

  
Crabby Appleton



Posts: 250
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2006,20:21   

Well I'm not going to chase different threads to cover one topic.

Dave admits that bombers were too boring so he probably had the same feelings about the A-10 (the F-117 falls into the same category since it ought to be designated the A-117), that leaves the F-15 and F-16.

Dave wanted to be a shit hot fighter pilot stud but he didn't have the right stuff.

The how and why of his eggbeater seat time is another issue. Flying Hueys when you wanted to fly Falcons or Eagles had to be a smack to the old ego/onions.

Just a quick question:
Why AREN'T you presenting your YEC evidence?

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2006,01:24   

Quote
Dave admits that bombers were too boring so he probably had the same feelings about the ...
I haven't been following all this Air Force stuff, but perhaps herein Dave's basic problem with science: it's just too boring, compared to the Vegas-style magic show he calls christianity.

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
Paul Flocken



Posts: 290
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2006,01:48   

After sleeping on it I decided I wanted to add:
This is not all to suggest anything malign on the part of AFDave.  There could be several reasons why he lacks operational experience.  He may simply not have been able to develop the abilities to pilot the fast jets.  Helo skills are somewhat different.  Perhaps his eyesight may have deteriorated rapidly.  IIRC the Army allows its helo pilots to use corrective eyewear.  I know the AirForce does not do this for fixed wing aircraft but perhaps they do for helo's, though I don't know for certain.  In any event the AirForce offered Dave an alternative and he chose helo's.  Suggesting that there was some negative reason for the change is too over the top.  I'm certain Dave had a wonderfully honorable career.  The point Crabby and I noticed was that there is probably more to the story than simply "Hi, I'm Dave.  I was an AirForce jetfighter pilot."  Especially since it was important enough to him that he made sure we all knew it even without having to visit his blog.

--------------
"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2006,08:43   

Quote
it's just too boring, compared to the Vegas-style magic show he calls christianity.


amazing how someone could conclude that a system of non-reality based off a single, very boring, hard to read collection of short stories could somehow be more exciting than the near infinite variety and fantastic real-life stories that come out of science every day.

any stories like wasps making zombie slaves out of their cockroack prey in the bible?

nope.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2006,10:02   

Quote
any stories like wasps making zombie slaves out of their cockroack prey in the bible?
No, the book that dave likes is relentlessly anthropocentric. That's my main problem with that whole family of religions. I don't think anthropocentricity works very well in the modern world, even in the best interests of anthropoi (Faid - that one's for you!;)).

But refresh my memory - where can I read about the zombie cockroaches?

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
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