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dhogaza Posts: 525 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 04 2006,08:54    BarryA   Quote It was reported above that the 90’s saw a lot of the gaps in the fossil record filled in. Someone must have forgotten to give the memo to Schwartz, Carroll, and Patterson, who wrote the following toward the end of the 90’s: “[We] are still in the dark about the origin of most major groups of organisms." So, let's see, we're in the dark about the origin of most - but not all - major groups of organisms, therefore evolution is disproved, he thinks. Totally ignoring the fact that we have detailed fossil records for the evolution of critters like whales ... that "most" is not synonymous with "all". Amazing blinders he and those like him wear.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 04 2006,09:00    Quote Amazing blinders he and those like him wear. that part of the disease is called "denial". -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Faid Posts: 1143 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 04 2006,09:40    Quote (dhogaza @ June 04 2006,13:54) BarryA   Quote It was reported above that the 90’s saw a lot of the gaps in the fossil record filled in. Someone must have forgotten to give the memo to Schwartz, Carroll, and Patterson, who wrote the following toward the end of the 90’s: “[We] are still in the dark about the origin of most major groups of organisms." So, let's see, we're in the dark about the origin of most - but not all - major groups of organisms, therefore evolution is disproved, he thinks. Totally ignoring the fact that we have detailed fossil records for the evolution of critters like whales ... that "most" is not synonymous with "all". Amazing blinders he and those like him wear. Um, right. "A lot of gaps in the fossil record are filled in" is directly contradicted by "we still don't know the origins of all organisms". OK. And, of course, both are in complete inaccordance with another statement Patterson made in the 90s: "I like cheese". Seriously. If that's the way Barry supported his cases, I wouldn't like to be represented by him. -------------- A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty: "The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information" "...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 04 2006,09:54    Any lawyer heralded by WingNutDaily is not someone with clear thought processes and smart conclusions. Hutz: I move for a bad court thingy. Judge Snyder: You mean a mistrial. Hutz: Right!! That's why you're the judge and I'm the law-talking guy. Judge: You mean the lawyer? Hutz: Right.

Aardvark Posts: 134 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 04 2006,14:58    A question courtesy of Larry Fafarman: Quote For example, how come dinosaurs did not evolve again after they became extinct? My answer:  God stopped them from evolving because he knew that Noah would have trouble fitting them on his ark.

Dante Posts: 61 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 04 2006,15:01    Quote The burden lies with the Darwinist to demonstrate how specified complexity in biological systems can be purchased sans a designing intelligence. Hand-waving-just so stories will not be accepted. (Link) (Emphasis mine) So supernatural explanations are the default way of explaining things? And don't give me that "the designer doesn't have to be supernatural" crap. You're not fooling anyone. -------------- Dembski said it, I laughed at it, that settles it!

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 04 2006,15:07    Nice Sig, Dante :-) btw, enjoyed you in Clerks.

Dante Posts: 61 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 04 2006,15:19    Steve, that phrase randomly came into my head a few days ago. Did you or someone else on this thread come up with it? -------------- Dembski said it, I laughed at it, that settles it!

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 04 2006,15:34    http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....st=3090 I'm sure you didn't plagiarize it. It was just one of those inevitable ideas floating in the ether, waiting to be born. Somebody probably beat me to it as well. I've yet to think up a better anti-ID bumper sticker. Quote The burden lies with the Darwinist to demonstrate how specified complexity in biological systems can be purchased sans a designing intelligence. Hand-waving-just so stories will not be accepted. Let's translate Larry's reasoning into physics, see if it makes more sense. Quote The burden lies with the Physicist to demonstrate how crystalline regularity can be purchased sans a designing intelligence. Hand-waving-just so stories will not be accepted. Nope, doesn't make any more sense. You know, it just occured to me, everything has some design influence, according to their arguments. They argue in the Explanatory Filter that you conclude design after, among other things, ruling out natural regularity. Elsewhere, they claim that the laws of physics were complex and specified and designed. But where do you think those natural regularities came from? Laws of physics. You'd have to know what the designer was trying to do, to distinguish which consequences the laws were designed to enable, and which consequences were incidental. And the IDiots say we're not allowed to investigate the designer's intentions. So by the IDiots' reasoning, you can never conclude anything was not designed. As every layer comes off the onion, it just gets stinkier and stinkier.

Dante Posts: 61 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 04 2006,16:09    Intelligent Design: Curiously religious science (you know, like Altoids). -------------- Dembski said it, I laughed at it, that settles it!

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 04 2006,16:24    Quote As every layer comes off the onion, it just gets stinkier and stinkier. ...and when you're all done, there's nothing left. I used to have fun calling IDiots "onionhead" in german once upon a time: Zwiebelkopf -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 04 2006,17:06    Here's a nice one from Dave 'King of Maths' Scott: from http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1177#comment-41834 Quote http://www.theapologiaproject.org/media/berlinski.ram With the current human population that means 6000 people would be fossilized every 70 years if the population remains stable. Over the span of 10 million years (the average lifespan of a species) there will be a total of 857 million fossilized humans. Imagine the odds of NOT finding one. -ds Dave, that bad math only works if the starts at 10 million and remains at that level.  But of course, they were spontaneously (and intelligently) generated... Now, let's look at reality.. http://www.globalchange.umich.edu/globalc....pop.jpg Please note who the Jesus effect is the catalyst for population growth.. *sigh* -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 04 2006,20:21    Richardthughes; Careful with those intelligent looking graphs, dSS will claim metal working started in Nigeria and the xtian era started in NW AUSTRALIA...you know how insanely stupid they are. I mean get them to point out on a map where metal working, agriculture or Zoroastrianism (a major influence on Judaism) started.( or Iraq for that matter) Oh and fossils dSS? how long does it take to fossilize a dead animal or human? Even if they survive scavenging and weathering it is almost a miracle we have as many as we do, you have seen what happens to dead animals on an African savanna have you not? In the time scale from the first cave art we have the actual (non-fossilized) bones from burial sites complete with jewelry, weapons, pottery, not to mention camp fire remains, middens (trash heaps) etc way before your DI-Creationist bosses even think the earth came into existence. So it must make you wonder dSS why they even bother to engage you in a debate if they only believe the world is 5000 or 6000 years old ....they don't need you. -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,03:59    Plus, its not like humans bury their dead or anything. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

J. G. Cox Posts: 38 Joined: Dec. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,04:16    http://www.theonion.com/content/node/49180 Funny how they made him come from Lehigh...

Faid Posts: 1143 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,04:47    Quote I love the peanut gallery at ATBC. They’re better than The Three Stooges, The Keystone Cops, Monty Python’s Flying Circus, and The Benny Hill Show rolled into one! None of them are actually banned. Some just don’t get all their comments posted. Some hardly ever get a comment posted. A few aren’t even on the moderation list because they’re not stupid or trollish. -ds Aww shucks, Davesy! Thanks! We remember well your warm welcome and our hospitable stay in your forum, and we're honoured that a genious of your magnitude still finds time from single-handedly disproving evolution in his basement, to bother with us! And I'm personally honoured to be compared to Monty Python by you. *fights a tear* Which gives me an idea: Guys: Which characters from MPFC do you think are most comparable with our beloved UD residents? Here's some, IMO: William A. Dembski - Ms. Anne Elk (OK, you saw that one coming) Davescott - Sergeant Major (..Unleash the banning tiger! Salvador - Wensleydale (replace cheese with evidence or arguments) Larry Faffarman - Mr. Smoketoomuch (will you be quiet please) Any other ideas? -------------- A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty: "The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information" "...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,04:52    LOL that's pretty good.

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,04:52    Oh those onion guys.... where DO they get their inspiration? House boat? The good ship dSS? Where the cabin boy shoved glass up his #ss to circumcise the skipper. Gott mit uns, Scheiße und Hölle Sieg hail Fuhrer Dembski !!!!! Bwhwhwhwhwhwhwhwhwhaahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha Self Published paper? ooooh the was below the belt. hehehehehehehehehehehehehe hrrmmm (giggle) -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Faid Posts: 1143 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,05:03    Quote (J. G. Cox @ June 05 2006,09:16) http://www.theonion.com/content/node/49180 Funny how they made him come from Lehigh... Quote "It's true that I've been condemned and ridiculed by the world's most prominent chemists, as well as by a good number of amateur hobbyists," Hapner said as he rubbed a ballon on his head to demostrate a basic principle of hydrodynamics. "But then, wasn't Eistein ridiculed when he unveiled his theory of relativity, or Copernicus when he posited that the Earth revolved around the sun? True, I have since proved them both wrong, but at least they took risks." G...Ghost? -------------- A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty: "The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information" "...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,05:32    Well,well,well is dSS getting bored with the 1/2 wits at Undressed Dipsh*ts? Forget about humor what about philosophy? From the other side of the pond no less. "And what if we've picked the wrong religion? Every week we're just making God madder and madder?" -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,06:57    evolution denial, meet global warming denial: Quote June 5, 2006 Is it just evolutionary biology that is corrupt or science more generally? This movie review may seem off topic, but it raises important questions about the abuse of science in our culture. http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1183 in other news: http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/14740340.htm I don't know why this Greg Bluestein bothered to put in a dismissive quote from Dembski. The article is filled with real scientists talking about real science, why mention a crank bible professor making sarcastic remarks on his weblog?

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,07:05    Quote The brash chemist, who conducts independent research from his houseboat, has infuriated peers by refusing to "play by the rules of Socrates, Bacon, and Galileo," calling test results as he sees them, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Hmm....research on his boat...well, they're either talking about Paley or Davetard.

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,07:23    Yeah Steve S Denial never rains but floods. Holocaust,Global Warming,Aids,Evolution,Homosexuality,Drugs,Oil drought. One word conservative religion/politics Dang 3 words. Well there is an easy fix. Don't tell anyone but Tony Snow the new white house flak catcher will be announcing a one size fits all fundamental shift in WH policy. Dateline Washington Haliburton HQ WH Press Room The Big Easy today is to be renamed 'Venice of the West' as part of the Bush plan to 'Evolve' with 'Climate Change'(Thankyou Orwell). Homosexuals (a Laura Bush protected species) will be given a new underwater suburb named 'Atlantis' near the mouth of the Mississippi river where Aids will be 'cleansed' just by walking in the streets. New settlers will be encouraged to migrate under the only planned free needle exchange available in the US. The saved costs on burials will have the added advantage of creating a huge biomass that over a period of 135 million years  will add to the oil reserves in the Gulf (if it is still there) -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,07:48    mark chu-carroll, who's an actual information theory scientist type, thinks Dembski knows he's lying: Quote But as you can see, the whole "information theory" argument isn't an argument at all. It's an attempt to make an argument from authority by using the words information theory and entropy, without any real reference to the actual theory beyond its name. It relies on the fact that most of the people who they're trying to reach aren't going to go and read Shannon's papers or Chaitin's books. Because even a glance, a trivial passing skim of a page or two of any real information (pun intended) about IT will reveal the utter fraud of their so-called arguments. the whole post is good   Really Bad Math: Evolution and Information Quote It's one thing to be wrong because you don't understand things as well as you think you do. It's bad: ignorance is not a good excuse in my book. But it's not deliberate lying. People coming from that perspective don't know that they're wrong - they genuinely believe that they're making a valid argument. People like Dembski don't have that excuse - they know full well that they're using a false argument. They just don't care. By MarkCC, at 12:53 PM

Aardvark Posts: 134 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,08:03    Quote (stevestory @ June 05 2006,11:57) evolution denial, meet global warming denial:   Quote June 5, 2006 Is it just evolutionary biology that is corrupt or science more generally? This movie review may seem off topic, but it raises important questions about the abuse of science in our culture. http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1183 in other news: http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/14740340.htm I don't know why this Greg Bluestein bothered to put in a dismissive quote from Dembski. The article is filled with real scientists talking about real science, why mention a crank bible professor making sarcastic remarks on his weblog? What I want to know from Demski et al is what they think the reason or motivation behind all this corruption is?   Money?   Fame?   ...or just a good old-fashioned, large-scale, all-encompassing EAC.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,08:13    I think the most common thing they'd say, Aardvark, would be something along the lines of "The atheism/communism worldview has deluded the scientists to the point they no longer understand basic reasoning." an argument which has taken down more Ironymeters than any other.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,08:48    Quote This movie review may seem off topic, but it raises important questions about the abuse of science in our culture. what I am truly getting sick of is the exact reverse of this: the abuse of science by our culture. which actually is a far more important issue in the long term. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Wonderpants Posts: 115 Joined: Sep. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,08:51    Quote (Faid @ June 05 2006,09:47) Quote I love the peanut gallery at ATBC. They’re better than The Three Stooges, The Keystone Cops, Monty Python’s Flying Circus, and The Benny Hill Show rolled into one! None of them are actually banned. Some just don’t get all their comments posted. Some hardly ever get a comment posted. A few aren’t even on the moderation list because they’re not stupid or trollish. -ds Aww shucks, Davesy! Thanks! We remember well your warm welcome and our hospitable stay in your forum, and we're honoured that a genious of your magnitude still finds time from single-handedly disproving evolution in his basement, to bother with us! And I'm personally honoured to be compared to Monty Python by you. *fights a tear* That reminds me of the single most infuriating thread/post I ever read on UncommonlyDense. Some of the UD posters started a Life of Brian quote game. Dunno about anyone else, but the sight of the finest comedy film ever, which is entirely based around the concept of ridiculing the blind faith, dogmatism, and sheeplike behaviour of fundamentalist religion being quoted on a board which defines the above behavour made me want to put my fist through the screen. -------------- Fundamentalism in a nutshell: "There are a lot of things I have concluded to be wrong, without studying them in-depth. Evolution is one of them. The fact that I don't know that much about it does not bother me in the least."

dhogaza Posts: 525 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,10:03    Tinabrewer leaves  me gasping ... Quote Jerry: “Science gets corrupt when it gets political.” This is only the latest phase of why science is corrupt. Its root corruption is much deeper; science is the work of the intellect. It seeks to categorize and explain material reality. The real “leader” in human life should always be the spirit, which seeks communion with the Creative Will of God. Science as it is currently practiced desires the overthrow of this natural hierarchy, replacing wisdom and truth with data and facts. Well, at least she's honest about why she's anti-science.

Aardvark Posts: 134 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 05 2006,10:24    Quote (dhogaza @ June 05 2006,15:03) Tinabrewer leaves  me gasping ...   Quote Jerry: “Science gets corrupt when it gets political.” This is only the latest phase of why science is corrupt. Its root corruption is much deeper; science is the work of the intellect. It seeks to categorize and explain material reality. The real “leader” in human life should always be the spirit, which seeks communion with the Creative Will of God. Science as it is currently practiced desires the overthrow of this natural hierarchy, replacing wisdom and truth with data and facts. Well, at least she's honest about why she's anti-science. tinabrewer -all waffle, no syrup

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