The Ghost of Paley
Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005
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Faid, I agree that I need to work on my models, and avoid political discussions for a while. So I'll let this be my last response (I hope, I hope). Let me just clear up a few things.
| Quote | You claimed to have kicked my ass by pointing me to pages that say nothing different than what I have said (that, when racial bias is analyzed, hispanic victims are also "lumped up" with white ones -as they should be).
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First of all, even if you were right, this doesn't make Horowitz et al "liars". Their point still stands: Hispanic victims are singled out, while Hispanic criminals aren't. Second, I still think you're wrong. Let's look again at table 3:
| Quote | Home Contact Us Methodology UCR Homepage FBI Homepage Offenses
Known Offender's Race by Offense Type, 2004 Offense type Total
offenses Known offender's race Unknown
offender
White Black American
Indian/Alaskan
Native Asian/
Pacific
Islander Multiple
races,
group Unknown
race
Total 9,035 3,720 1,068 41 61 190 852 3,103
Crimes against persons: 5,642 3,117 913 35 55 159 483 880
Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter 5 3 2 0 0 0 0 0
Forcible rape 4 2 1 0 0 0 1 0
Aggravated assault 1,040 613 258 5 6 37 52 69
Simple assault 1,750 1,078 376 12 19 76 93 96
Intimidation 2,827 1,412 272 18 30 46 334 715
Other1 16 9 4 0 0 0 3 0
Crimes against property: 3,333 564 144 6 6 29 364 2,220
Robbery 112 48 42 1 1 4 8 8
Burglary 146 44 10 0 0 1 19 72
Larceny-theft 169 35 17 1 0 4 30 82
Motor vehicle theft 15 5 0 0 0 0 2 8
Arson 44 13 5 1 0 0 11 14
Destruction/damage/vandalism 2,812 398 64 3 5 20 293 2,029
Other1 35 21 6 0 0 0 1 7
Crimes against society1 60 39 11 0 0 2 5 3
Back to Section I
Table 3 1Includes additional offenses collected in the NIBRS.
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We agree that there is no category for "Hispanics" - all mestizo offenders are lumped in with whites in the "race" category (notice that there's no "ethnic" category for offenders, even though there's one for victims. Given that ethnicity - unlike religion or sexual orientation - is objectively identifiable, don't you find the lack of symmetry a bit.....odd?). So now we'll turn our attention to Table 5:
| Quote | Home Contact Us Methodology UCR Homepage FBI Homepage Back to Section I
Table 5 Offenses
Known Offender's Race by Bias Motivation, 2004 Bias motivation Total
offenses Known offender's race Unknown
offender
White Black American
Indian/Alaskan
Native Asian/
Pacific
Islander Multiple
races,
group Unknown
race
Total 9,035 3,720 1,068 41 61 190 852 3,103
Single-Bias Incidents 9,021 3,712 1,068 41 61 188 852 3,099
Race: 4,863 2,234 594 27 33 128 432 1,415
Anti-White 998 190 499 15 9 25 84 176
Anti-Black 3,281 1,802 63 7 19 88 292 1,010
Anti-American Indian/Alaskan Native 97 55 3 4 0 3 9 23
Anti-Asian/Pacific Islander 252 99 16 1 5 8 34 89
Anti-Multiple Races, Group 235 88 13 0 0 4 13 117
Religion: 1,480 292 55 7 7 12 164 943
Anti-Jewish 1,003 151 27 6 6 6 94 713
Anti-Catholic 57 11 4 1 0 1 6 34
Anti-Protestant 43 10 1 0 0 3 6 23
Anti-Islamic 193 86 16 0 0 2 23 66
Anti-Other Religion 140 25 4 0 1 0 30 80
Anti-Multiple Religions, Group 37 6 3 0 0 0 4 24
Anti-Atheism/Agnosticism/etc. 7 3 0 0 0 0 1 3
Sexual Orientation: 1,406 590 222 3 9 30 150 402
Anti-Male Homosexual 855 1In a multiple-bias incident two conditions must be met: 1) more than one offense type must occur in the incident and 2) at least two offense types must be motivated by different biases.
376 130 2 9 21 95 222
Anti-Female Homosexual 201 78 43 1 0 5 18 56
Anti-Homosexual 297 118 39 0 0 2 31 107
Anti-Heterosexual 35 11 8 0 0 0 3 13
Anti-Bisexual 18 7 2 0 0 2 3 4
Ethnicity/National Origin: 1,201 574 170 3 12 17 105 320
Anti-Hispanic 611 305 108 3 10 8 38 139
Anti-Other Ethnicity/National Origin 590 269 62 0 2 9 67 181
Disability: 71 22 27 1 0 1 1 19
Anti-Physical 23 11 2 0 0 0 0 10
Anti-Mental 48 11 25 1 0 1 1 9
Multiple-Bias Incidents1 14 8 0 0 0 2 0 4
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See how they have each category subdivided? If we assume that these categories overlap, then that means that there were more Jewish victims than "White" victims overall, which would be a logical absurdity. In addition, see the footnote under "Multiple Bias Incidents"
| Quote | 1In a multiple-bias incident two conditions must be met: 1) more than one offense type must occur in the incident and 2) at least two offense types must be motivated by different biases.
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This also suggests that the categories are mutually exclusive. But these are Single Bias incidents, right? Let's look at the "Victims" table:
| Quote | Victims
Offense Type by Bias Motivation, 2004 Bias motivation Total
victims Crimes against persons
Murder and
nonnegligent
manslaughter Forcible
rape Aggravated
assault Simple
assault Intimidation Other1
Total 9,528 5 4 1,040 1,750 2,827 16
Single-Bias Incidents 9,514 5 4 1,038 1,745 2,823 16
Race: 5,119 3 4 623 1,019 1,618 6
Anti-White 1,027 2 3 151 316 228 4
Anti-Black 3,475 1 1 407 602 1,209 1
Anti-American Indian/Alaskan Native 100 0 0 16 30 22 1
Anti-Asian/Pacific Islander 266 0 0 25 43 80 0
Anti-Multiple Races, Group 251 0 0 24 28 79 0
Religion: 1,586 1 0 21 71 380 0
Anti-Jewish 1,076 0 0 10 32 255 0
Anti-Catholic 68 0 0 2 4 5 0
Anti-Protestant 48 0 0 3 5 3 0
Anti-Islamic 201 0 0 4 22 88 0
Anti-Other Religion 147 0 0 2 6 23 0
Anti-Multiple Religions, Group 39 0 0 0 1 6 0
Anti-Atheism/Agnosticism/etc. 7 1 0 0 1 0 0
Sexual Orientation: 1,482 1 0 208 372 389 9
Anti-Male Homosexual 902 0 0 113 253 252 6
Anti-Female Homosexual 212 0 0 34 49 61 1
Anti-Homosexual 314 1 0 51 58 69 1
Anti-Heterosexual 36 0 0 7 7 4 1
Anti-Bisexual 18 0 0 3 5 3 0
Ethnicity/National Origin: 1,254 0 0 181 268 413 1
Anti-Hispanic 646 0 0 118 159 181 0
Anti-Other Ethnicity/National Origin 608 0 0 63 109 232 1
Disability: 73 0 0 5 15 23 0
Anti-Physical 24 0 0 2 3 6 0
Anti-Mental 49 0 0 3 12 17 0
Multiple-Bias Incidents2 14 0 0 2 5 4 0
Home Contact Us Methodology UCR Homepage FBI Homepage Bias motivation Crimes against property Crimes
against
society1
Robbery Burglary Larceny-
theft Motor
vehicle
theft Arson Destruction/
damage/
vandalism Other1
Total 142 169 186 15 57 3,220 37 60
Single-Bias Incidents 142 168 186 15 57 3,218 37 60
Race: 59 92 112 9 22 1,483 24 45
Anti-White 28 24 69 7 3 157 13 22
Anti-Black 27 56 24 1 16 1,109 6 15
Anti-American Indian/Alaskan Native 0 3 7 0 0 14 4 3
Anti-Asian/Pacific Islander 4 5 10 1 3 91 1 3
Anti-Multiple Races, Group 0 4 2 0 0 112 0 2
Religion: 6 39 30 3 15 1,011 5 4
Anti-Jewish 4 16 5 1 3 750 0 0
Anti-Catholic 2 3 4 0 2 45 1 0
Anti-Protestant 0 4 4 0 2 25 2 0
Anti-Islamic 0 7 5 0 3 71 1 0
Anti-Other Religion 0 6 7 2 5 93 0 3
Anti-Multiple Religions, Group 0 2 5 0 0 24 1 0
Anti-Atheism/Agnosticism/etc. 0 1 0 0 0 3 0 1
Sexual Orientation: 45 11 13 2 10 412 4 6
Anti-Male Homosexual 36 2 0 1 7 227 3 2
Anti-Female Homosexual 3 6 3 0 2 51 0 2
Anti-Homosexual 5 3 4 0 1 120 1 0
Anti-Heterosexual 1 0 3 1 0 10 0 2
Anti-Bisexual 0 0 3 0 0 4 0 0
Ethnicity/National Origin: 31 21 22 1 10 300 2 4
Anti-Hispanic 24 13 10 1 6 131 1 2
Anti-Other Ethnicity/National Origin 7 8 12 0 4 169 1 2
Disability: 1 5 9 0 0 12 2 1
Anti-Physical 1 2 5 0 0 3 2 0
Anti-Mental 0 3 4 0 0 9 0 1
Multiple-Bias Incidents2 0 1 0 0 0 2 0 0
1Includes additional offenses collected in the NIBRS.
2In a multiple-bias incident two conditions must be met: 1) more than one offense type must occur in the incident and 2) at least two offense types must be motivated by different biases.
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Same problems: 1) there are more Jewish victims than White victims, 2) the footnote implies once again that the categories are mutually exclusive, and 3) the category sums match the total number of victims, which is inconsistent with any overlap. So either these charts are the worst of all time (a reasonable hypothesis, given the source), or the victim categories are, indeed, mutually exclusive. Which means that Hispanic victims are not lumped in with White victims. Which makes the FBI statistics hoax-alicious. Oh, and by the way, if there's no anti-white bias in hate crime stats, how do you explain this:
| Quote | The Bureau of Justice Statistics estimates that in 1999, there were about 657,008 blackonwhite crimes of violence, as compared to some 91,051 of the whiteonblack variety. Yet although blackperpetrated interracial crimes outnumbered whiteperpetrated interracial crimes by a ratio of about 7.2 to 1, the official hatecrime statistics showed white offenders outnumbering black offenders by a 4 to 1 margin. Put another way, about 1 out of every 45 whiteonblack attacks is classified as a hate crime, while the corresponding fraction for blackonwhite attacks is an astounding 1 out of 1,254.
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Quite a discrepancy, don'tcha think? I notice you ignored it the first two times. Maybe the third time's a charm.
| Quote | You say that you don't want the rate of hate crimes "inverted" (when, in fact, it is not inverted at all, the racial hate crimes against blacks are three times more, and you just want the media to focus on the silly proposed 13%-20% difference -unless you agree with the racist "argument" proposed by your sources, that white-on-black hate crimes don't count when the offender is Hispanic).
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Look at the interracial crime statistics for any year, including 2004. Do the math. Blacks commit much more crime against Whites, than Whites do against Blacks. Now go pick up an American paper or see an American movie. The media sure knows how to tell it like it ain't.
| Quote | You say that the Wichita murders were a hate crime because they were brutal and sadistic (which obviously also implies racism- but only when blacks do it to whites), because the victims were all white (because the racist offenders did not even try to storm a house that had mixed racial company), and because the police just didn't look enough, which I suppose is your version of "the investigators didn't ask the right questions" argument AmRen uses ("Are you sure they called you a #$^% $%&*%*$, or was it a #$^% white $%&*%*$? Really, really sure"?).
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First, the crimes were needlessly, ritually, and horrifically brutal. No one has trouble connecting the dots when nonwhites are the victims. Second, all of their victims were white - not just the five friends. Third, the police made no effort to look for prejudice. Could you imagine the outrage if the races were reversed?
| Quote | You take your "Big gun" story from "underreported" to "not reported properly" at a blink of an eye, and claim that newspapers like Washington Post were intimidated by those heroes at FPM and AmRen, that dared to post the story right away -although for entirely different reasons- and were then forced to post it, too (and that is beyond any comment).
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Oh, come on. The vast majority of the national stories appeared almost two years after the crimes. Yes, part of the belated interest was motivated by issues surrounding the death penalty, but not all. Remember, even the October 14th A.P. story admitted that the national media had been scooped. Once again, when the story's out, the story's out. No sense to continue covering it up. Which leads to:
| Quote | But the greatest absurdity is your initial claim, the one you admitted: That there is a huge conspiracy involving politicians, media, the Police, Judges and the FBI to suppress certain crimes. And your "soft" bias just doesn't stand: For policemen, reporters and DAs alike to immediately evaluate and filter out each crime, decide how and where it should be covered, and give the proper orders to avoid any misconduct, then either all those have to be connected in a Hive Mind, or there has to be some almighty Order, all-knowing and swiftly acting, that pulls the strings from above... I wonder which you find more plausible.
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Look, the fear of P.C. wrath may be a joke in Greece, but America ain't laughing. People here can lose their jobs for the tiniest slip of the tongue, or by using the word "niggardly". You really have to live here to know how insane it is. Europe, I can't even imagine. 
| Quote | Anyway, you're gonna have to explain how all this happens. And why. After all, you practically dropped your "immigration" argument; And the only thing the examples from all the sources you posted even try to imply, is a "pro-black" bias.
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I'll concede that I haven't established the immigrant angle. But don't kid yourself: it's out there.
One final link:
| Quote | A little more than a year before the attack on James Byrd in Texas, three white Michigan youngsters hitched a train-ride as a teenage lark. When they got off the train, they found themselves in the wrong urban neighborhood, surrounded by a gang of armed black youths. One of the white teenagers, Michael Carter, aged 14, was killed. Dustin Kaiser, aged 15, was brutally beaten and shot in the head, but eventually survived. The fourteen-year-old girl (whose name has been withheld) was pistol-whipped and shot in the face after being forced to perform oral sex on her attackers.
Though the six African Americans responsible for the deed were arrested and convicted, their attack was not prosecuted as a hate-crime. More to the point, most of the nation never knew that the crime had taken place. It was not reported on page one of the national press, and there was no public outrage expressed in national editorials or in the halls of Congress. Indeed, the few papers that reported the incident nationally did so on their inside pages. Beyond the Michigan region, the stories often failed to mention the races of the participants at all. The crime took place on July 21, 1997, but among the readers of this column, there will not be one in a hundred who has even heard of it before. That is because as a hate crime, it was in a sense politically incorrect. To notice that black people, as well as whites, can be responsible for vicious crimes of hate, is simply improper. Hate crimes can only be committed by an oppressor caste; therefore what happened in Michigan was not a hate crime at all.
[snip OJ stuff]
The fact is that it is not okay in America to hate blacks, but it is okay in our politically correct culture to hate white people. Entire academic departments and college curricula are based on this idea. White people are the oppressors of minority communities and cultures. That is Americas true legacy. There is even an academic field of "whiteness studies" to parallel black studies and womens studies. But the parallel is an inverted one. Blacks are celebrated in black studies and women are championed in womens studies. But whiteness studies (notice how the adjective has been modified) are devoted to the subject of how whites construct the idea of race to enable them to oppress others. Whiteness-studies academics have their own magazine published out of Cambridge, Massachusetts, site of Harvard and MIT and one of the most liberal communities in America. The name of the magazine is Race Traitor, and its motto proclaims "Treason to whiteness is loyalty to humanity." Under the influence of the left, our universities have become purveyors of racial poisons, but the rest of the country cannot notice this, because the targets of the hatredwhitesare not politically correct victims.
Hollywood understands this rule of progressive etiquette. A new film, American History X, will for the umpteenth time feature white neo-Nazis as the villains of a homily about racial bigotry. The idea is that race hatred is synonymous with "skin-heads" who are white. But a few years ago a sensational mass-murder trial in Miami spotlighted a black cult leader named Yahweh Ben Yahweh, who required his cult members to kill whites and bring back their ears as proof of the deed. There was no Hollywood scramble for the rights to the Yahweh cult story, andpartly as a resultfew Americans are even aware that it ever took place. Last week a German tourist was shot to death in Santa Monica, California, in front of his wife and children. The trigger for the killing seems to have been his failure to understand the English commands of his attackers. The crime was committed by two African-American men and one African-American woman, though one would never know this from reading the Los Angeles Times or AP accounts. (I had to verify their racial identities by calling the Santa Monica police department directly.) The word "hate crime" never surfaced in connection with the deed, either in the press accounts or in editorial commentaries that followed. Now suppose that three whites had gone to a Hispanic neighborhood to rob inhabitants and had murdered an Hispanic immigrant because he could not speak English. Does anyone imagine that the press accounts would hide the identity of the attackers or that the question of whether it might be a hate crime would never come up?
According to US Department of Justice figures, in 1993 there were 1.4 million violent crimes of inter-racial violence nationwide. Eighty-five percent of them were committed by blacks against whites. A white is fifty times more likely to be the victim of a violent crime committed by a black person than the other way around. Not surprisingly, the first hate-crime conviction to be appealed to the Supreme Court involved a black perpetrator and a white victim. The politically righteous, who are pushing the current legislation, will be in for some surprises should the law they are proposing go into effect.
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So do what you will, this thread's over for me. I await your response.
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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.
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