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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 5, Return To Teh Dingbat Buffet< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2016,14:10   

I just spent 45 minutes drafting a comment responding to one of Gordon Mulling's (dba KairosFocus) sermons only to be presented with the site off line message. It might be for the best. Socking up takes effort. I hate losing them on my first use.

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2016,14:11   

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Mar. 05 2016,14:10)
I just spent 45 minutes drafting a comment responding to one of Gordon Mulling's (dba KairosFocus) sermons only to be presented with the site off line message. It might be for the best. Socking up takes effort. I hate losing them on my first use.

Pleas God, don't let it be a sign that Barry has finally trashed the site. What will I do with my spare time?

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2016,15:00   

Barry was treasurer for a Michelle Bachmann PAC, so you can bet pretty heavily against him recognizing a lost cause, as long as it aligns with his infantile intellect and philosophy.

EDIT: to add this bit about how i'm not editing to correct 'Michelle'.

Edited by stevestory on Mar. 05 2016,16:02

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2016,17:42   

Derp Derp Derp:
Quote
28

ppolish

March 5, 2016 at 5:17 pm

Cosmological Fine Tuning is an established and accepted Scientific Fact. Fine Tuning deniers are out there though. Expected really. Predictable.

Just wait until Biological Fune Tuning becomes more apparent. Oh boy, deniers will be aplenty.


OOOOooooo, it's "Scientific" Fucking "Fact".

Except it's not.

Quote
Disputes regarding the existence and extent of fine-tuning[edit]
Physicist Paul Davies has asserted that "There is now broad agreement among physicists and cosmologists that the Universe is in several respects 'fine-tuned' for life". However, he continues, "the conclusion is not so much that the Universe is fine-tuned for life; rather it is fine-tuned for the building blocks and environments that life requires." He also states that "'anthropic' reasoning fails to distinguish between minimally biophilic universes, in which life is permitted, but only marginally possible, and optimally biophilic universes, in which life flourishes because biogenesis occurs frequently".[16] Among scientists who find the evidence persuasive, a variety of natural explanations have been proposed, such as the anthropic principle along with multiple universes. George F. R. Ellis states "that no possible astronomical observations can ever see those other universes. The arguments are indirect at best. And even if the multiverse exists, it leaves the deep mysteries of nature unexplained."[17]

Regarding recently discovered dark energy and its implication on the cosmological constant, Leonard Susskind says "The great mystery is not why there is dark energy. The great mystery is why there is so little of it [10-122]... The fact that we are just on the knife edge of existence, [that] if dark energy were very much bigger we wouldn’t be here, that's the mystery." A slightly larger quantity of dark energy, or a slightly larger value of the cosmological constant would have caused space to expand rapidly enough that galaxies would not form.[18] Despite this, Susskind does not necessarily see the universe as being fine-tuned, suggesting that some parts of the "megaverse" in which we live might just, by chance, be suitable to for the emergence of life, while other parts might not be.[19]

Steven Weinberg rejects the argument about the fine-tuning of the carbon cycle, arguing that "the fine-tuning of the constants of nature here does not seem so fine". He acknowledges that he currently has no explanation (apart from a multiverse) for the smallness of the cosmological constant, but cautions that "It is still too early to tell whether there is some fundamental principle that can explain why the cosmological constant must be this small."[20][21]

Physicist Victor Stenger objects to the fine-tuning, and especially to theist use of fine-tuning arguments. His numerous criticisms include what he calls "the wholly unwarranted assumption that only carbon-based life is possible."[22] In turn, the astrophysicist Luke Barnes has criticised much of Stenger's work.[23]

The validity of fine tuning examples is sometimes questioned on the grounds that such reasoning is subjective anthropomorphism applied to natural physical constants. Critics also suggest that the fine-tuned Universe assertion and the anthropic principle are essentially tautologies.[24]

The fine-tuned Universe argument has also been criticized as an argument by lack of imagination, as it assumes no other forms of life, sometimes referred to as carbon chauvinism. Conceptually, alternative biochemistry or other forms of life are possible.[25] Regarding this, Stenger argues: "We have no reason to believe that our kind of carbon-based life is all that is possible. Furthermore, modern cosmology theorises that multiple universes may exist with different constants and laws of physics. So, it is not surprising that we live in the one suited for us. The Universe is not fine-tuned to life; life is fine-tuned to the Universe."[26]

In addition, critics argue that humans are adapted to the Universe through the process of evolution, rather than the Universe being adapted to humans (see puddle thinking, below). They also see it as an example of the logical flaw of hubris or anthropocentrism in its assertion that humans are the purpose of the Universe.[27]


wikipedia

   
Lethean



Posts: 292
Joined: Jan. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2016,22:30   

That second to last paragraph sums up what I've always thought. I was listening to a podcast the other day where fine tuning was being more or less debated and it was frustrating to me that nobody brought that up.

The second paragraph is reflective of the same misuse of the 2nd Law of Thermalpants to argue super-special-ness. The failure to understand that local pockets of lower entropy are possible with the nearby input of the energy from a star. Conceptually, same may be true of the visible (to us thus far) universe.

(for the record 75 posts does not an edit button thingy give - not a complaint)

--------------
"So I'm a pretty unusual guy and it's not stupidity that has gotten me where I am. It's brilliance."

"My brain is one of the very few independent thinking brains that you've ever met. And that's a thing of wonder to you and since you don't understand it you criticize it."


~Dave Hawkins~

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 05 2016,22:42   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 05 2016,08:20)
Erdogan is a notorious atheist.

Huh?  Wikipedia describes him as a former Islamacist.  I get the impression from that article that he abandoned rank Islamacism strictly for political reasons.  It also says his govt was caught sending arms to the Taliban and ISIS fighters in Syria.

Is this perhaps the UD version of atheism?  That is, "One who doesn't kiss our holy assholes with sufficient fervor."

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2016,04:20   

It just occurred to me that UD hasn't delved into politics yet this election cycle. I would have thought they'd be mostly pro-Trump, with its obvious comic potential. I wonder if the subject has been banned.

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2016,11:46   

I would lay money Barry is pro-Cruz.

   
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2016,15:15   

So Edgar Postrado got a new haircut (a Cordova) and has been busy  uploading more videos.

Let's check in with Eddie and enjoy some cutting edge scien....



???

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2016,15:47   

Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 06 2016,11:46)
I would lay money Barry is pro-Cruz.

You mean pro-Cruise, don't you?

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2016,16:24   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 06 2016,13:47)
 
Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 06 2016,11:46)
I would lay money Barry is pro-Cruz.

You mean pro-Cruise, don't you?

Like this?

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
sparc



Posts: 2088
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2016,22:34   

unteachables teaching each other

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1100
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2016,23:51   

Quote (sparc @ Mar. 06 2016,22:34)
unteachables teaching each other

But see, knowledge hasn't corrupted them.  They're stupid to the point of saintliness.

That makes them the best teachers of all.

Glen Davidson

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http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2016,10:19   

Quote (sparc @ Mar. 06 2016,22:34)
unteachables teaching each other

Gordon Mullings (dba KairosFocus) discussing science with Gary. You just can't make up this shit.

I like Gordon's examples of Intelligent Design in action. If anything, the smelting of iron owes more to selection processes than it does to design. The better adaptations of technique survived and proliferated throughout the industry. Where was the design in that?

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2016,09:37   

Quote
708

Virgil Cain

March 8, 2016 at 9:20 am

Sets are only isomorphic artificially. The counter tests proves cantor was wrong. Set subtraction proves Cantor was wrong.


Quote
711
ellazimmMarch 8, 2016 at 9:27 am
#708 VC
Quote

Sets are only isomorphic artificially.

You don’t know what isomorphic means.


lol

   
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2016,13:34   

At least Joe can feel better, knowing that there's someone else out there who knows as little about math as he does.  it's Virgil, who is definitely not Joe:
Quote
The natural way of matching is to take the same numbers and match them. That is how it is done to determine if one set is a subset of another.

Let set A = {0,1,2,3,4,5,…}
Let set B = {1,3,5,7,9,…}

Set A has every element in set B covered by natural matching and set A has numbers that set B does not have. And because of that it is a logical contradiction to say that both sets have the same cardinality, ie the same number of elements.

I'm assuming Joe's still busy looking for the largest known number.  If he doesn't need any help with this, perhaps Virgil can find an integer n for which we can't calculate 2n + 1.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2016,13:35   

What are they saying Cantor wrong about?

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2016,14:15   

I sold a book about Cantor's continuum hypothesis for $200 once! I found out a few years later that I had been drastically ripped off. Which is really really weird considering I paid $.25 for it at a garage sale.

Also, Hi everyone. I just figured out my password so now I can post again!

Happy Birthday Lizzie!

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2016,15:35   

Interesting, if true.

Algorithm Eh:
Comment 22:
Quote
Joe: And I am sure they knew that quickly cooling something makes it hard.”

That is not what your wife told me.

Just being an ass. But seriously, how would they know this? If they predicted this in advance, design. If they observed after the fact, fucking lucky.


And then comment 28 by Algorithm Eh:
Quote
KairosFocus, just for the record, I did not make the comment at 22. Somebody obviously hacked my account. Please delete this comment.


If what Algorithm Eh is saying is true, then it appears that Mullings or Barry is playing silly buggers.

Fun Times at the Circus.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2016,10:00   

Whoever aleta and ellazimm are, i want to buy them a drink.

the beating continues, but Virgil fails to improve.

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2016,11:41   

Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 09 2016,10:00)
Whoever aleta and ellazimm are, i want to buy them a drink.

the beating continues, but Virgil fails to improve.

Even KF is getting tired of Joe's, er, Virgil's trash talk

 
Quote
VC, I am beginning to run out of patience, please fix your tone. KF


Of course KF has given JoeTard about 117 warnings in the past and nothing has happened.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

  
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2016,11:47   



Joe G versus Georg Cantor - shit guys I don't know who to believe.

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2016,12:46   

Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 09 2016,08:00)
Whoever aleta and ellazimm are, i want to buy them a drink.

the beating continues, but Virgil fails to improve.

ellazimm should buy a drink for math teachers everywhere:
Quote
#748 VC
Quote
The question pertains to that small part of set theory and does not pertain to the entire theory.

It’s part of the foundation of Cantor’s work. You really should take a real set theory course someday.

I don't care what math teachers may have done to ellazimm.  They don't deserve that.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Patrick



Posts: 666
Joined: July 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2016,18:39   

Quote (JohnW @ Mar. 09 2016,13:46)
Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 09 2016,08:00)
Whoever aleta and ellazimm are, i want to buy them a drink.

the beating continues, but Virgil fails to improve.

ellazimm should buy a drink for math teachers everywhere:
Quote
#748 VC
Quote
The question pertains to that small part of set theory and does not pertain to the entire theory.

It’s part of the foundation of Cantor’s work. You really should take a real set theory course someday.

I don't care what math teachers may have done to ellazimm.  They don't deserve that.

I haven't taken this online course, but perhaps it would achieve the goal without subjecting a teacher to Virgil.

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2016,22:19   

Joe obviously hasn't stayed at Hilbert's Hotel

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
KevinB



Posts: 525
Joined: April 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2016,06:21   

Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 09 2016,22:19)
Joe obviously hasn't stayed at Hilbert's Hotel.

He trashed the bathroom last time, so he's not been allowed back - unlike UD, where trashing the bathroom is mandatory.

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2016,06:38   

Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 09 2016,18:00)
Whoever aleta and ellazimm are, i want to buy them a drink.

the beating continues, but Virgil fails to improve.

ellazimm pretty much nails their dicks to the floor with post 813.
 
Quote
813
ellazimmMarch 10, 2016 at 1:20 am
Virgil, KF, Mapou

I don’t understand why but you all are dancing around questions that have been addressed to you that are pertinent to the way this thread has evolved.

Virgil: you and I have discussed at great length (on your own blog) your system of relative cardinalities. You ‘calculated’ the ‘relative’ cardinality of many infinite sets. So why are you now saying you haven’t given it much thought at the same time baldly declaring that Cantor was wrong and you have proved it? I have asked you over and over again on this thread to determine the cardinality of sets A and B (defined a long ways above) and you won’t even say whether you can or not. And you keep pretending that since you have no personal knowledge of the ‘practical’ application of a core concept in Cantor’s work the whole thing doesn’t matter anyway. But you have proved him wrong? Proving Cantor wrong would mean having to come up with an alternative to his ‘system’ which means you have to be able to answer questions like the ones I keep asking you.

KF, daveS asked you over and over again several straight-forward yes or no question that are purely mathematical and you danced around it as if answering would threaten your life. daveS appears to have teased out one answer but why did you not just address the issue directly? We’re just asking you about the mathematics NOT the cosmology or theology. I don’t understand why you write paragraph upon paragraph of prose that avoids answering simple, direct questions.

Mapou, you like bringing up concepts and ideas that you know will get people riled up but this time, when Aleta addressed your statements and then asked you a question in return you stomped off. I have noticed you behaving that way on other threads. You think it’s a good and important thing to question authority (I agree) but you seem to have a real problem when you are questioned in return. What was it about Aleta’s question that you found so objectionable?

I have been participating on the blog for a number of years. I have been ridiculed many times (as you will all remember) and have been banned for no stated reason as you will also remember. On this thread Aleta, daveS and myself (to a much lesser extent) have been trying to figure out what it is you believe about a neutral topic and have been doing so in a generally respectful manner. Why is it so hard to answer some questions? This thread is not part of some greater war, it’s about mathematics.

In academic environments you HAVE to be prepared to face intense questioning, it’s how it works. You can’t just say whatever and expect people to nod and smile and take it on faith. They are going to do their best to stress it and pull it apart before they bring it into the fold. That’s the way it should be, that’s how you make sure that new stuff actually makes sense: the crucible of scrutiny. It’s nothing personal. But if you can’t defend your ideas and, especially, if you don’t even try, then people are going to stop paying attention.

Maybe you don’t care if anyone takes you seriously but I don’t that very much. All three of you have written hundreds of posts declaring yourselves to be right about various topics. When someone is trying to take you seriously and figure out what exactly you are saying that is exactly the time to answer some questions.


ETA: He should get a bonus point for the use of the word evolved. (snikker)

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Jkrebs



Posts: 590
Joined: Sep. 2004

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2016,11:52   

Mapou vs Virgil - pass the popcorn

Quote
821
Virgil Cain March 10, 2016 at 10:33 am

Mapou:"I see nothing infinite in a few symbolic markings on my screen.

Virgil: "Well educated people see what I wrote as a representation of an infinite set. So perhaps you should get an education."

822
Mapou March 10, 2016 at 10:40 am

Virgil Cain @821,

You’re insulting me, man. At this point, all can say is, pack it where the sun does not shine. See you around.

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2016,15:29   

Quote (Jkrebs @ Mar. 10 2016,11:52)
Mapou vs Virgil - pass the popcorn

Quote
821
Virgil Cain March 10, 2016 at 10:33 am

Mapou:"I see nothing infinite in a few symbolic markings on my screen.

Virgil: "Well educated people see what I wrote as a representation of an infinite set. So perhaps you should get an education."

822
Mapou March 10, 2016 at 10:40 am

Virgil Cain @821,

You’re insulting me, man. At this point, all can say is, pack it where the sun does not shine. See you around.

Oh the irony. One of these characters complaining that the other is insulting him.

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2016,16:30   

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Mar. 10 2016,13:29)
Quote (Jkrebs @ Mar. 10 2016,11:52)
Mapou vs Virgil - pass the popcorn

 
Quote
821
Virgil Cain March 10, 2016 at 10:33 am

Mapou:"I see nothing infinite in a few symbolic markings on my screen.

Virgil: "Well educated people see what I wrote as a representation of an infinite set. So perhaps you should get an education."

822
Mapou March 10, 2016 at 10:40 am

Virgil Cain @821,

You’re insulting me, man. At this point, all can say is, pack it where the sun does not shine. See you around.

Oh the irony. One of these characters complaining that the other is insulting him.

And JoeVirgil telling someone to get an education.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
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