Louis
Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006
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(Apologies for minor derailment)
Skeptic,
It REALLY isn't about bashing, or "we are in possession of the TRUTH", or anything remotely like it.
If 50% of the population of the USA believe that evolutionary biology is a crock then on the issue of the veracity of evolutionary biology yes indeed 50% of the population of the USA are wrong. So what? Is everybody in the USA suddenly a research scientist? Why should people understand something they are continually lied to about and in an education system where teachers hand are tied behind ther backs? It isn't US patronising people, it's YOU. We don't EXPECT everyone to be right about everything all the time. We don't EXPECT everyone to be interested in or to understand the details of complex science. We wouldn't dare patronise people like that. However we DO expect people who wish to comment on science to have the barest modicum of intellectual honesty and ability and to actually know what they are talking about. No too much to ask is it?
Last time I looked, reality wasn't democratic. If it were why don't we repeal the law of gravity? How about the laws of thermodynamics? That would make my job as a synthetic organic chemist easier, after all I wouldn't have to worry about kinetic vs thermodynamic effects in my reactions, I could just get everyone in the lab to vote on the outcome of the reaction being what I want it to be. I could go home early!
But seriously, we are all only human. To be confronted day in day out by people who very aggressively and arrogantly claim all modern science is bullshit, without actually having any basis for knowing whether or not it is in fact bullshit, occasionally gets a bit wearing. Many of the people on this forum are, or have been, academics and/or teachers. One of their jobs (out of the many) is to teach and train the next generation of scientists. We positively WANT to impart information and methodology to hungry students. That's not only part of our jobs, but entirely analogously to parents bringing up kids, a real pleasure when one of our students goes off and discovers something valuable for themselves.
Perhaps what you don't understand about science is that no one really cares WHAT the answer is, they just care HOW you got the answer and that the answer is reliable and reproducible.
You bring up bashing members of religions. Science can be repeated and learnt by ANYONE, in that sense it is 100% egalitarian and democratic. Science and the findings of science are the same for a Hindu as they are for a Muslim, a man or a woman, a paralympian or an olympian, a homosexual or a heterosexual. The inanities of YEC or IDC or homeopathy or any cargo cult/pseudoscientific bunkum are only "reproducible" (and aren't even that to be blunt) to people with a prior commitement, a belief, in these things. How do I know? Because I can demonstrate this is the case unambiguously.
You are sketpical about evolutionary biology? Great! We ALL should be skeptical about everything. What we SHOULDN'T be is skeptical because of some preconcieved notion or belief. We should also be very humble and realise that our personal disbelief is not a sufficient basis for the claim "X is untrue", whatever X might be. We need rational skepticism, not irrational kneejerk gainsaying skepticism.
I have read your thread, and a few other things you have posted and I am sorry to say you were dealt with very nicely to start with. The point that people are making is that on an internet forum things cannot all be done for you, you are going to have to put yourself in the way of the evidence by your own efforts. People can summarise that evidence for you, point you towards it (and they have) but they can't MAKE you read/examine/think about it. YOU have to do that.
What frustrates people is that it is very, very clear you have not and are not doing that. This is frustrating for a number of reasons, not the least because you are clearly an intelligent guy. We hate to see a good mind go to waste! Repetition of the same worn out nonsense is another frustration. Claims that people are adhering to some sort of dogma when they DEMONSTRABLY aren't is extremely irritating because you are effectively questioning people's integrity with no basis in fact for doing so. By the way, the reason so many of us question the integrity of certain YECs/IDCs is precisely because it can be DEMONSTRATED that they have been dishonest/lacking in intellectual intergrity etc. It's what you can demonstrate that counts, not what you believe.
So take the suggestions of people like Wes, who really do know what they are talking about on this issue, and read around the subject more than you clearly have. You might even be pleasantly surprised.
Cheers
Louis
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Bye.
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