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  Topic: Biology @ Coastal Carolina & UNCW, Lou FCD Goes to School< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2008,06:30   

Quote (jeffox @ Sep. 09 2008,00:19)
Note to city-folks:  A cow magnet is a small, rounded-edged cylinder of steel that is magnetized and fed to cattle to make all the iron-based garbage they eat collect in their stomachs and not go into their intestines where that shit can really cause problems.  They're about 2 inches long and about 1/4 inch in diameter.  The metals that cows eat include parts of old barbed-wire fences, nails, old building materials, etc.  A lot of farmers in the olden days just threw garbage out into their fields to get rid of it.  More than anybody really wanted to know, but there it is.   Moo, y'all.  :)   :)   :p

(slaps forehead)

So these refrigerator magnets are supposed to go IN the refrigerator.

DUH!

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2008,06:59   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Sep. 10 2008,06:30)
Quote (jeffox @ Sep. 09 2008,00:19)
Note to city-folks:  A cow magnet is a small, rounded-edged cylinder of steel that is magnetized and fed to cattle to make all the iron-based garbage they eat collect in their stomachs and not go into their intestines where that shit can really cause problems.  They're about 2 inches long and about 1/4 inch in diameter.  The metals that cows eat include parts of old barbed-wire fences, nails, old building materials, etc.  A lot of farmers in the olden days just threw garbage out into their fields to get rid of it.  More than anybody really wanted to know, but there it is.   Moo, y'all.  :)   :)   :p

(slaps forehead)

So these refrigerator magnets are supposed to go IN the refrigerator.

DUH!

I worked as a butcher for around 10 years. (I grew up in the country)

Cow magnets pick up a lot of things you wouldn't think of a cow eating but one thing I never figured out was the iron filings, little tiny metal needle shaped bits of metal stuck on them. Some cows are plumb full of magnets and those I figured were covered with bits rubbed off the other magnets but even if they only had a few the same stuff covered them. I imagined they were sucking the iron out of their spinach.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2008,19:47   

Quote (BWE @ Sep. 10 2008,04:54)
The one class I remember my grade in was pre-calc. I got an A on the first 4 out of 5 equally weighted tests and a B- in the class.

That worried me IIRC because I had calc the next quarter after summer break and it was required for science majors.

But that had to do more with distractions and so forth... I'm sure you'll sail through.

Why are you taking Spanish?

A foreign language is required both for my associate's at Coastal and for my bachelor's in the UNC system (to which I'll transfer), and I took both French and German in high school.  I thought this time around I'd take something actually useful.  :)

Besides which, it should really be an easy A, and it would be handy for realsies here.

Speaking of precalc distractions, just as class started this evening we got word of a possible tornado headed our direction (by way of my neighborhood), and the building's classes all emptied into the first floor hallway.

We hung out for about 15 or 20 minutes before we got the all clear, and could go back to class. No sightings on the ground that I'm yet aware of, but frankly I'm exhausted and in a great deal of pain tonight, so further investigation will wait until tomorrow.

Right now, I just want to put the precalc quiz behind me (I think I did pretty well) and go to bed.

The days are starting to run together, now.

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
jeffox



Posts: 671
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2008,22:40   

A furly odd occurance today.  I went to my new job (making sandwiches at the campus cafeteria) a few hours earlier today to take in my first Geology Club meeting and do some power schmoozing.  :)  After the Club's meeting, there was about an hour before I had to go to work.  So, there I was, hanging out on the commons when I noticed a fairly large group of students clustered around someone speaking.  Sort of.  I got closer and ended up actually participating.  :)

It was this cat.

Straw men, evidentiary double standards, misidentification, historical revisionism, you name it, he spewed it.  If a question was too difficult, he danced around it.  Thin-skinned and nervous as he spoke, he denounced everything he felt wasn't up to his biblical standard(s).  

I lit into him on a number of issues, and I wasn't alone.  He had little support, mostly people asking him to clarify his point(s).

He's a poor dancer, and came off as a total tard.  He even said that Dawkins made himself look bad in Expelled.  I about died with laughter at that one.

I will say that I developed a great deal of respect for the students at UWEC.  They treated him with respect, for the most part, and yet engaged him on his inconsistencies and political obtuseness.  

I guess school isn't just about book-learning.  It was an interesting day today.

Otherwise, like you wrote, Lou; my days are beginning to blend together also.  Second quiz tomorrow in Precalc.

I hope that all the other current students are having a good time and learning a lot, too!

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2008,04:14   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Sep. 11 2008,01:47)
[SNIP]

...and I took both French and German in high school.  I thought this time around I'd take something actually useful.  :)

[SNIP]

Don't knock it, UK foreign policy and "special relationship" with the USA is based on the fact that we mostly cannot be arsed to learn French.* ;-)

Louis

*Needless to say, as a Francophile, this is a policy I profoundly disagree with.

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Bye.

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2008,09:48   

Quote (Louis @ Sep. 11 2008,05:14)
Quote (Lou FCD @ Sep. 11 2008,01:47)
[SNIP]

...and I took both French and German in high school.  I thought this time around I'd take something actually useful.  :)

[SNIP]

Don't knock it, UK foreign policy and "special relationship" with the USA is based on the fact that we mostly cannot be arsed to learn French.* ;-)

Louis

*Needless to say, as a Francophile, this is a policy I profoundly disagree with.

I thought half the language was French already. (Obviously not necessary for previous sentence.)

--------------
I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
huwp



Posts: 172
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2008,10:48   

Hey, if you've studied French AND Spanish then you'll know Portuguese - ask AFDave.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2008,11:46   

Quote (dvunkannon @ Sep. 11 2008,15:48)
Quote (Louis @ Sep. 11 2008,05:14)
Quote (Lou FCD @ Sep. 11 2008,01:47)
[SNIP]

...and I took both French and German in high school.  I thought this time around I'd take something actually useful.  :)

[SNIP]

Don't knock it, UK foreign policy and "special relationship" with the USA is based on the fact that we mostly cannot be arsed to learn French.* ;-)

Louis

*Needless to say, as a Francophile, this is a policy I profoundly disagree with.

I thought half the language was French already. (Obviously not necessary for previous sentence.)

Of course it is, we just don't admit it.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2008,11:51   



My notes and thoughts from Biology 111, for Wednesday, September 3, 2008. The entire series can be found here.

We left off before the Labor Day break with polarity and the ability to form hydrogen bonds.

The polarity of the water molecule, having an oxygen to one side and the two hydrogen atoms to the other, gives the molecules a slight attraction to charged molecules, since the oxygen end is going to have a slight negative charge and the hydrogen end is going to have a slight positive charge. This is caused by the unequal sharing of valence e- between the oxygen and the two hydrogens. Because the oxygen pulls harder on the shared e-, they are going to spend more time toward the oxygen, increasing its negative charge a little, and away from the hydrogens, increasing their positive charge a little (actually decreasing their negative charge a little, to be accurate).

That little bit of polarity will cause the oxygen end of one water molecule to be attracted to the hydrogen end of another water molecule (or any other positively charged molecule), and though the effect is small in one pair of molecules, it adds up with millions of molecules.

This is what causes the meniscus in a test tube or a glass of water. The water toward the edge, closest to the glass, is attracted to the glass, pulling itself up a little to stick to the sides. It's also the cause for the ability to fill a glass slightly over the edge.

Emergent Properties of Water

1. Cohesion and Adhesion

Cohesion is the ability of water (in this case) molecules to stick to each other by hydrogen bonding

Adhesion is the ability of water (in this case) to stick to other polar molecules.

In our previous example of the test tube or glass, cohesion would be responsible for the water overfilling the glass without spillage, and adhesion would be responsible for the meniscus.

They'll also cause the water level inside a glass straw to be higher than the water level of a beaker in which the straw is placed. The thinner the straw, the greater the disparity between the water levels, as there are fewer water molecules in the center, far away from the glass. In the center, gravity will tend to overcome the hydrogen bonding, but at the sides, where the water is close to the glass, the hydrogen bond is strong enough to overcome the gravitational pull.

In another example, it's the cause of a little bit of water acting like glue between two glass plates. The sum of all those hydrogen bonds makes it very difficult to separate two wet panes of glass.

In biology, this is how a plant gets water from the ground to the leaves. Little teeny veins in the tree attract the water molecules, which adhere their way up against gravity to the leaves, where it evaporates.

This lecture was rather short, due to the pop quiz Doc gave that day, and here is where it ended.

Quote
From whence came the art:

That image is of our textbook, Biology, Eighth Edition, by Campbell &amp; Reese et al.


--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2008,11:57   

Quote (jeffox @ Sep. 10 2008,23:40)
Otherwise, like you wrote, Lou; my days are beginning to blend together also.  Second quiz tomorrow in Precalc.

Yeah, took my second last night, think I did pretty well. We'll be having them every Wednesday night from here out.

Got my Spanish exam from Tuesday back this morning:

100

(two small misspellings and one use of the wrong verb - I used soy instead of estoy - but I nailed the extra credit)

I seem to be keeping mi cabeza above la agua.

Quote (jeffox @ Sep. 10 2008,23:40)
I hope that all the other current students are having a good time and learning a lot, too!


I'll second that emotion.

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
Ra-Úl



Posts: 93
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2008,12:16   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Sep. 11 2008,11:57)
Quote (jeffox @ Sep. 10 2008,23:40)
Otherwise, like you wrote, Lou; my days are beginning to blend together also.  Second quiz tomorrow in Precalc.

Yeah, took my second last night, think I did pretty well. We'll be having them every Wednesday night from here out.

Got my Spanish exam from Tuesday back this morning:

100

(two small misspellings and one use of the wrong verb - I used soy instead of estoy - but I nailed the extra credit)

I seem to be keeping mi cabeza above la agua.

Quote (jeffox @ Sep. 10 2008,23:40)
I hope that all the other current students are having a good time and learning a lot, too!


I'll second that emotion.

Uhmmm . . . "el agua." Feminine nouns beginning with a stressed 'a' (or 'ha') take the "el" article in singular form, and the "las" def. article in plural: "las aguas." Why? Revenge for English spelling. Really.

--------------
Beauty is that which makes us desperate. - P Valery

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2008,15:52   

Quote (Ra-Úl @ Sep. 11 2008,13:16)
Uhmmm . . . "el agua." Feminine nouns beginning with a stressed 'a' (or 'ha') take the "el" article in singular form, and the "las" def. article in plural: "las aguas." Why? Revenge for English spelling. Really.

heh, thanks. We hadn't gotten to that yet, but I remember agua from Sesame Street.

:)

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2008,18:20   

I read in one of the recent science mags (science news maybe?) that the quantum effect of the water molecule have a lot to do with the emergent chemical properties and that water made with deuterium is fundementally different in that the bond is much tighter or something like that.

[/blithering]

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2008,18:32   

Quote (BWE @ Sep. 12 2008,00:20)
I read in one of the recent science mags (science news maybe?) that the quantum effect of the water molecule have a lot to do with the emergent chemical properties and that water made with deuterium is fundementally different in that the bond is much tighter or something like that.

[/blithering]

Not entirely blithertastic my friend.

Ask yourself why (for example) hydrogen sulfide or hydrogen selenide don't behave the same way as water (in their liquid states). Elements from the first period tend to be unusual for their group by virtue of their comparatively small atomic radius and high electronegativity (simple explanation. More complex stuff involves maths, quantum mechanics, and depending on how far one wants to go, molecular orbital theory).

Isotope effects (H to D for example) can alter the strength of the bond sufficiently to noticeably affect the dissociation constants or the pka for example.

Oops, I appear to have got all excited and mildly chemical again. Apologies.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
dogdidit



Posts: 315
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2008,22:26   

Quote (Louis @ Sep. 11 2008,18:32)
   
Quote (BWE @ Sep. 12 2008,00:20)
I read in one of the recent science mags (science news maybe?) that the quantum effect of the water molecule have a lot to do with the emergent chemical properties and that water made with deuterium is fundementally different in that the bond is much tighter or something like that.

[/blithering]

Not entirely blithertastic my friend.

Ask yourself why (for example) hydrogen sulfide or hydrogen selenide don't behave the same way as water (in their liquid states). Elements from the first period tend to be unusual for their group by virtue of their comparatively small atomic radius and high electronegativity (simple explanation. More complex stuff involves maths, quantum mechanics, and depending on how far one wants to go, molecular orbital theory).

Isotope effects (H to D for example) can alter the strength of the bond sufficiently to noticeably affect the dissociation constants or the pka for example.

Oops, I appear to have got all excited and mildly chemical again. Apologies.

Louis

You mean second period, correct? That is, home of oxygen, nitrogen, and flourine, the chief electronegative culprits in hydrogen bonding? I'm not nitpicking, I just want to make sure I understand. My college physics never got this far. Excuse me for being a noisy kibbitzer.

It seems to me that "hydrogen bonding" is a bit mislabelled; it's more to do with the electronegative elements than hydrogen. I read somewhere that even carbon can participate in "hydrogen bonding".

ANYHOO- Lou, hydrogen bonding is pretty critical in biochemistry. The two complementary strands on DNA are held together with hydrogen bonds. And I believe hydrogen bonding also plays a role in protein folding. So you're going to spend some time studying it, I imagine.

As for deuterium chemistry, I am slack-jawed. The extra neutron is electrically neutral, and can interact with the electron cloud only weakly (literally), I thought, so WTF? Guess I needed to stay in school a little longer.

Louis, if I had a cap, I'd doff it. *cap-doffing motion*

BWE, let me borrow this:
</blithering>

--------------
"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2008,23:02   

dogdidit, after I read the article I called a friend of mine who works at Hanford as a researcher and asked him if they were letting heavy water into the columbia since I'm downstream and all. He said, "I don't know".

WHat!?

You should know dammit.

But I didn't say that. I only thought it.

The thing that made it noteworthy for me was that the QM of the atom affected the chemistry in such a major way.

Here is the online article! I googled 'science news heavy water.'

http://www.sciencenews.org/view....fferent


The interbitlitweb is neet.link

ETA: here is a bit of it:
Quote
The length of bonds connecting water molecules could demonstrate quantum effects and help explain some of water’s weirdness.
access
HEAVY CONNECTIONSThe distance between oxygen and the heavier deuterium in a D2O molecule in liquid heavy water is three percent shorter than the distance between oxygen and hydrogen in an H2O molecule; and the hydrogen bond (dotted) is four percent longer in heavy water than in light. Click image twice for a larger view.J. Korenblat/Science News

Heavy water is not just heavier. Swapping each H in H2O with a D — hydrogen’s isotope deuterium — changes many of water’s properties. Heavy water is poisonous, and its freezing point is 4° Celsius, instead of 0°. Those differences may reveal that quantum effects rule in ordinary water, researchers have now found.

The results, reported in an upcoming Physical Review Letters, could shed light on quantum theory’s relevance for ordinary water, which is the medium for most of the action inside living cells. The work could also help explain some controversial findings on how biological molecules behave in water.


--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Henry J



Posts: 5787
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2008,23:12   

Quote
The extra neutron is electrically neutral, and can interact with the electron cloud only weakly (literally),


Is it that it interacts weakly with the electrons, or simply that it doubles the inertia of the atom it's in, making it more resistant to getting shoved around by outside forces? (Also heavier gravitationally, of course.)

Henry

  
jeffox



Posts: 671
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2008,23:36   

Oh, ya ya, da fish get bigger in heavy water, butcha can't eat 'em.

:)   :)   :p

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2008,03:07   

Quote (dogdidit @ Sep. 12 2008,04:26)
Quote (Louis @ Sep. 11 2008,18:32)
     
Quote (BWE @ Sep. 12 2008,00:20)
I read in one of the recent science mags (science news maybe?) that the quantum effect of the water molecule have a lot to do with the emergent chemical properties and that water made with deuterium is fundementally different in that the bond is much tighter or something like that.

[/blithering]

Not entirely blithertastic my friend.

Ask yourself why (for example) hydrogen sulfide or hydrogen selenide don't behave the same way as water (in their liquid states). Elements from the first period tend to be unusual for their group by virtue of their comparatively small atomic radius and high electronegativity (simple explanation. More complex stuff involves maths, quantum mechanics, and depending on how far one wants to go, molecular orbital theory).

Isotope effects (H to D for example) can alter the strength of the bond sufficiently to noticeably affect the dissociation constants or the pka for example.

Oops, I appear to have got all excited and mildly chemical again. Apologies.

Louis

You mean second period, correct? That is, home of oxygen, nitrogen, and flourine, the chief electronegative culprits in hydrogen bonding? I'm not nitpicking, I just want to make sure I understand. My college physics never got this far. Excuse me for being a noisy kibbitzer.

It seems to me that "hydrogen bonding" is a bit mislabelled; it's more to do with the electronegative elements than hydrogen. I read somewhere that even carbon can participate in "hydrogen bonding".

ANYHOO- Lou, hydrogen bonding is pretty critical in biochemistry. The two complementary strands on DNA are held together with hydrogen bonds. And I believe hydrogen bonding also plays a role in protein folding. So you're going to spend some time studying it, I imagine.

As for deuterium chemistry, I am slack-jawed. The extra neutron is electrically neutral, and can interact with the electron cloud only weakly (literally), I thought, so WTF? Guess I needed to stay in school a little longer.

Louis, if I had a cap, I'd doff it. *cap-doffing motion*

BWE, let me borrow this:
</blithering>

LOL Yeah I meant first period....excluding that OTHER first period containing H and He above it. ;-)

Sorry for being confusing.

As for isotope effects, the mass of the atom in a bond has an effect. And wouldn't you know it Wikipedia has something on it. See here. It's all to do with charge/mass and the way a bond vibrates (in classical terms. The QM version is more complicated). I loves me some physical organic chem.

This is very important in biology BTW. Getting a large amount of deuterium in you can seriously affect certain rate critical enzyme catalysed reactions. This is what is technically known as a "bad thing" in clinical terms!

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2008,03:10   

Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 12 2008,05:12)
Quote
The extra neutron is electrically neutral, and can interact with the electron cloud only weakly (literally),


Is it that it interacts weakly with the electrons, or simply that it doubles the inertia of the atom it's in, making it more resistant to getting shoved around by outside forces? (Also heavier gravitationally, of course.)

Henry

The second one.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2008,03:20   

Also, if this turns out to be repeatable:
Quote
Rübhausen says the difference in bond lengths could help explain some surprising results he and his collaborators reported last year. His team was comparing RNA made with ordinary organic molecules to RNA made of those molecules’ mirror images. Their goal was to shed light on why life always uses one type of molecule rather than the other.

Chemically, the molecules and their mirror images should be identical. But the researchers found small differences in the energy it takes to excite electrons in the two types of RNA — but only when the RNA molecules were suspended in ordinary water. When the researchers repeated the experiment in heavy water, the differences disappeared.


It will quite possibly be very important.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2008,04:40   

Quote (BWE @ Sep. 12 2008,09:20)
Also, if this turns out to be repeatable:
Quote
Rübhausen says the difference in bond lengths could help explain some surprising results he and his collaborators reported last year. His team was comparing RNA made with ordinary organic molecules to RNA made of those molecules’ mirror images. Their goal was to shed light on why life always uses one type of molecule rather than the other.

Chemically, the molecules and their mirror images should be identical. But the researchers found small differences in the energy it takes to excite electrons in the two types of RNA — but only when the RNA molecules were suspended in ordinary water. When the researchers repeated the experiment in heavy water, the differences disappeared.


It will quite possibly be very important.

I'd be careful with this. RNA is big, I'd have to check the original data out to be comfortable with what is being claimed. Is that from the above linked stuff, or do you have a reference for it? I'm dead interested so lemme have a look!

When you have large molecules with large numbers of asymmetric centres (and planes and axes and tertiary structure etc) it is very, very, VERY hard to confirm that you have each asymmetric element perfectly opposed in your enantiomeric partner molecules. Sure, optical rotation, circular dichroism and complex NMR experiments etc can give you a huge amount of information about molecular symmetry. It's even possible they've synthesised short RNA pieces (or even large ones) from different chiral pools of molecules and made sure that no other stereoisomers crept in (practically impossible to do 100%, but not too bad at 99.9%!) and got X-ray structures. Even then remember that they are dealing with billions of billions of molecules in each sample, racemisation of asymmetric centres is a spontaneous process.

It could be some solvation effect with heavy water, it could even be due to exchange processes at labile hydrogens.

ARGH! I'm going to have to go and look this up now aren't I? Thanks BWE, like I need MORE excuses to hunt through the lit for entertaining science. ;-)

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2008,04:53   

It's from the link above. I wanted to see if anyone follows my links. :)

And yeah... I can't imagine the lab procedure.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2008,04:57   

http://rnajournal.cshlp.org/cgi/reprint/13/11/1877.pdf

Here ya go.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2008,05:38   

Quick note before school this morning:

Yep, Doc is spending a lot of time really emphasizing the importance of Hydrogen bonding in biology.

I skimmed the heavy water discussion, but I'll try to squeeze in some time this afternoon to check it out. Thanks for that, fellas.

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2008,05:45   

Sorry to hijack your thread but it's important you get the facts before you go off to face a professor who will likely tell you that God doesn't wear panties.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
dogdidit



Posts: 315
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2008,06:54   

Quote (Louis @ Sep. 12 2008,03:10)
 
Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 12 2008,05:12)
   
Quote
The extra neutron is electrically neutral, and can interact with the electron cloud only weakly (literally),


Is it that it interacts weakly with the electrons, or simply that it doubles the inertia of the atom it's in, making it more resistant to getting shoved around by outside forces? (Also heavier gravitationally, of course.)

Henry

The second one.

Louis

Ah, hadn't considered momentum. I heard hoofbeats and thought of zebras. Great discussion, Louis and BWE! Though it's more science than I can handle right now (7:30 am and in a seriously un-caffeinated state). I'll flatter myself by pretending I'll read up and understand it later.

BTW Henry J is right, we shouldn't be ignoring gravity; why, it's the strongest force in the universe doncha know!  :p

--------------
"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2008,07:13   

Besides the discrete effects on individual reactions, deuterium (in water) has interesting effects on whole organisms. One of the more well-studied effects is the ability of heavy water to slow down circadian rhythms, which are fairly resistant to manipulation by lots of other chemical and physical agents. Here's a classic paper in that area.

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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2008,07:18   

I'm going to start a new thread for this. Can a moderator move the other posts in heavy water? I feel like it's stealing some of Lou's spotlight.  ???

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2008,11:48   

Quote (BWE @ Sep. 12 2008,08:18)
I'm going to start a new thread for this. Can a moderator move the other posts in heavy water? I feel like it's stealing some of Lou's spotlight.  ???

It's fine, BWE. Besides, I only have a one way button for the Wall, so it's something Wesley might have to do if it's important to be over there. Otherwise, you could just post a link back to here for the beginning of the discussion.

*****

I got my first English essay back today.

See it here, at Crowded Head: My Country Bleeds for Thee

I dun got a A.

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
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