OgreMkV
Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009
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Quote (Otangelo @ Jan. 20 2016,19:00) | [quote=OgreMkV,Jan. 12 2016,12:02] Quote (Otangelo @ Jan. 12 2016,11:54) | Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 09 2016,22:41) | Quote (Otangelo @ Jan. 09 2016,18:45) | Quote (Cubist @ Dec. 19 2015,21:01) | Quote (Otangelo @ Dec. 16 2015,16:59) |
Question: Do you, or do you not, have evidence of "information-rich systems" being produced by "intelligent agents" other than human beings?
Question : Do you, or do you not, have evidence of "information-rich systems" being produced by "intelligent agents" other than human beings? |
Question : Do you, or do you not, have evidence of "information-rich systems" being produced by NON "intelligent agents" at all ? |
Yes.
I believe these were already mentioned for you.
1) Stars 2) Termites 3) Crystals 4) Rock Layers
Now answer the question.
Do you or do you now, have evidence of "information rich systems" being produced by intelligent agents other than humans? |
non of your examples contain complex, specified, coded information, as found in a book, a computer code, a partiture, or a morse code, or..... dna. |
Of course not.
I didn't think you would accept it.
You've defined (without telling us, despite us asking) information as only being produced by intelligence. Congratulations. You've created a circular argument.
Information can only come from intelligence. Therefore any thing that comes from non-intelligent sources is not information.
Tell you what. Define all that clap trap you've babbled about information in a robust, repeatable, mathematical system... then we'll talk. Until then, enjoy your circle jerk. |
sorry, not just information. coded, specified complex information only comes from a mind. |
As I said, you have a circular reasoning.
Coded is the result of an activity done to information. In general use, it does imply a mind to do the coding and decoding. Of course, a mind isn't required, but your simplistic understanding does.
Specified requires something to specify the information. Again, in general use, it does imply a mind to make the specification. Of course, a mind isn't required, but your simplistic understanding does.
You have defined the information you seek as only that which comes from a mind, then use that to justify belief in the mind that created it. That is circular logic.
Define "coded, specified complex information"
What does "coded" mean in this context? What determines if some information is "coded" or not? Does meaning play any part in that?
What does "specified" mean in this context? Who does the specifying? With what tools and systems? How?
What does "complex" mean in this context? How do you measure complexity? What units? Why?
What does "information" mean in this context? How do you measure it? What units? Why?
What values of the above require a mind? What values do not require a mind? Why?
What is the "mind" that resulted in life as we know it? How do you know?
Can you, Otangelo, determine the difference between coded, specified information and random information? I challenge you to do so.
If you cannot, then you have no possible way to determine the answers that you think you already know. If you can, and can do so reliably, then you will have a Nobel prize (or whatever the equivalent is) for mathematics waiting for you.
Just let me know when you are ready. I'll provide two strings. One random and one that is complex, coded, and specified.
-------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.
http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat
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