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  Topic: UnReasonable Kansans thread, AKA "For the kids"< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
bystander



Posts: 301
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2009,18:55   

Quote (raguel @ Jan. 13 2009,14:00)
I partly agree with SD (if for nothing else, concern trolling a known concern troll = lulz). Being a former "fundie" (Southern Baptist, literalist) I find most creationists infuriating. I took a step back and tried to analyze why I take it so personally. Mostly it's because I detest con men and snake oil salesmen but I think it's also partly because I'm embarrassed to have been one of them.

I'd like to think I was never that intellectually dishonest and uninterested in actual science, tho.

I don't know any fundies personally. Do you think most are like you (able to be convinced given evidence) or like FTK (fingers in ears going la la la)?

I agree with you about the kids however. Whenever I talk about atheism, I always say that this is what I believe and why and that others have other beliefs.

I probably bend over backwards to give the kids the message that no matter what they will be welcome to our home.

I think that with Ftk she is going to have a lot of problems - either they will end up being extreme like her (which will cause them problems with their peers as I think all this crap is receding with the young'uns) or end up extreme the other way.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2009,19:59   

I attended a private Assembly of God-run middle school. And I also had a few weeks' experience with the Gainesville, FL Crossroads Church of Christ. So as far as the fundamentalist, evangelical experience... I've been there. The part about respecting truth turned out to be what I held onto over some of the other theological stances I encountered.

The Crossroads thing... looking back at it, the whole "discipling" element is clear now. I was recruited for the church by a UF staff member in the computer science department in my first semester at college. And things might have turned out quite differently except for the Bible Study component of the Crossroads experience. I'd probably been attending about six weeks when at the Bible Study they introduced a special leader of discussion for the evening, an associate pastor there. Our usual leader made the introduction, and there was no mistaking the note of awe in his voice. The associate pastor had a bible with him, one with about a half-dozen bookmarks in it. There was a reason. He had an argument to make, he told us. He proceeded to open his bible to one of the bookmarks, and read a couple of verses. He visited each bookmark, but there was no linear progression of the bookmarks, he went back and forth to put the snippets in the order he desired. Finishing with the last of the bookmarks, he closed the bible and lifted his face to us. "Therefore," he announced, "anyone who is not baptized by total immersion in water is going to hell."

I never went back. I'm ashamed to say that I didn't say anything out loud right at the moment, but I just kept my mouth shut and waited for the evening to be over. My "mentor" made periodic attempts to get me back into the fold over the next several months, none of them successful. I think I must have puzzled them, because a female student who was also in the honors dorm picked up where my mentor left off, inviting me to go to Sunday services with her. For those who never had the Crossroads experience, this was something quite out of character. Single people attending would sit in sections by gender. I wasn't there long enough to figure out how the transition from single to married status usually happened at Crossroads, but miracles might have been involved. So having someone of the opposite sex try to take the role of mentor was something I had never seen there before.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
raguel



Posts: 107
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2009,21:01   

Quote (bystander @ Jan. 15 2009,18:55)
Quote (raguel @ Jan. 13 2009,14:00)
I partly agree with SD (if for nothing else, concern trolling a known concern troll = lulz). Being a former "fundie" (Southern Baptist, literalist) I find most creationists infuriating. I took a step back and tried to analyze why I take it so personally. Mostly it's because I detest con men and snake oil salesmen but I think it's also partly because I'm embarrassed to have been one of them.

I'd like to think I was never that intellectually dishonest and uninterested in actual science, tho.

I don't know any fundies personally. Do you think most are like you (able to be convinced given evidence) or like FTK (fingers in ears going la la la)?

I agree with you about the kids however. Whenever I talk about atheism, I always say that this is what I believe and why and that others have other beliefs.

I probably bend over backwards to give the kids the message that no matter what they will be welcome to our home.

I think that with Ftk she is going to have a lot of problems - either they will end up being extreme like her (which will cause them problems with their peers as I think all this crap is receding with the young'uns) or end up extreme the other way.

Most people I know aren't the reflective sort when it comes to religion (at least they never admitted it to me, anyway). I hardly ever talk to fundies about evolution IRL because they are a lot like everyone else you see on the internet: they learn just enough for their Apologetics.

I think I stopped being a fundie before I accepted evolution. People joke about the bible being the best argument for atheism. It was certainly true in my case. OT God is evil, insane and as petty as any Greek god. NT God isn't much better.

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2009,19:54   

Just read this:  
Quote
There are no living primates native to North America, northern Eurasia or Australia today, and I suspect that this geographical fact has subtly influenced our ideas and attitudes toward our relatives. By comparison the Japanese, for instance, have a much closer relationship and understanding of primates, and have been seriously studying them much longer. This is partly due to familiarity, since there are macaques  native to the Japanese islands, and partly due to religion: the Japanese have few ideological problems with accepting monkeys and apes as "other" beings, rather than "lesser" beings as the Judaeo-Christian tradition views them.

-Seven Million Years: The Story of Human Evolution by Douglas Palmer

Let's hear it for Shinto! :)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2009,14:45   

It appears FTK cannot keep her story straight
 
Quote


FAR OUT!!!

Thanks Barry…I’m constantly refering people to UD, and a new FAQ will be of great help.

You’re doing an awesome job with the site, btw….

THANKS!!!


http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-303472

Got that laptop working again FTK? And when these people you refer to UD get there, what is it that you suppose they see?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2009,14:49   

FtK has been noticed by a senior editor at Nature, no less.  Here's his take on her:

 
Quote
Dragging their knuckles along behind, here are the Reasonable Kansans – cripes, I’d hate to meet any Unreasonable Kansans. It’s the shoes, Dorothy, the shoes.


No, please don't ask me to explain that.

(EDIT: fixed link.  Thanks Oldman)

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2009,14:51   

Linky Broken, try this
http://tinyurl.com/cfzqgd

  
AmandaHuginKiss



Posts: 150
Joined: Dec. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2009,15:23   

Wow fame and fortune for our Little Ftk. Who would think that igonorance with a touch of hate would send her so far.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2009,15:35   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 02 2009,14:49)
[URL=http://network.nature.com/people/henrygee/blog/2009/02/02/this-overhyped-and-stunningly-incompetent-collection-of-just-so-stories-about-evolution-ha

s-more-holes-in-it-than-your-average-baloney-and-swiss-cheese-sandwich-just-go-up-to-beezl

ebun-demon-bunny-of-doom-and-say-that]FtK has been noticed[/URL] by a senior editor at Nature, no less.  Here's his take on her:

Quote
Dragging their knuckles along behind, here are the Reasonable Kansans – cripes, I’d hate to meet any Unreasonable Kansans. It’s the shoes, Dorothy, the shoes.


No, please don't ask me to explain that.

It appears to be written in the style of O'Leary.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
noncarborundum



Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2009,16:13   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Feb. 02 2009,15:35)
 
Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 02 2009,14:49)
[URL=http://network.nature.com/people/henrygee/blog/2009/02/02/this-overhyped-and-stunningly-incompetent-collection-of-just-so-stories-about-evolution-ha




s-more-holes-in-it-than-your-average-baloney-and-swiss-cheese-sandwich-just-go-up-to-beezl




ebun-demon-bunny-of-doom-and-say-that]FtK has been noticed[/URL] by a senior editor at Nature, no less.  Here's his take on her:

   
Quote
Dragging their knuckles along behind, here are the Reasonable Kansans – cripes, I’d hate to meet any Unreasonable Kansans. It’s the shoes, Dorothy, the shoes.


No, please don't ask me to explain that.

It appears to be written in the style of O'Leary.

Now I have to revise my mental picture of a knuckle-dragger.  I never imagined one leaning backwards as it walked.  This is a posture I normally associate with beings of a more advanced type.



--------------
"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2009,23:47   

Hey, Bob...didn't appreciate the bold faced lie you wrote in the comment section....

Quote
She once accused PZed’s daughter of bestiality, after mis-reading a post. you can imagine how well that went down.


What a lie....just wow.  I never accused Skatje of engaging in bestiality.  Because of your wording, that is what you have led readers to believe.

And yes, OM, my laptop has been repaired...but, I've moved on to greener pastures.  I've been refering people to UD, EN&V and my site almost daily...:)

Oh, and I don't "hate" anyone or anything Amanda.

Carry on....

--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,00:35   

Quote
What a lie....just wow.  I never accused Skatje of engaging in bestiality.  Because of your wording, that is what you have led readers to believe.

My apologies - my memory is obviously hazy on the details of the incident.  What exactly did you accuse Skatje of (with links :-)) - I'm happy to go back and correct what I wrote.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
utidjian



Posts: 185
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,01:41   

Bob,

I seem to remember that she defended "Slimy" Sal Cordovas article that implied that Skatje was in to bestiality. Hard to find links on this stuff because many of the original posts and threads have been pulled off the intertubes.

I think somewhere here on AtBC there is a thread where FtK defends Sal.

-DU-

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Being laughed at doesn't mean you're progressing along some line. It probably just means you're saying some stupid shit -stevestory

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,02:07   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 03 2009,00:35)
 
Quote
What a lie....just wow.  I never accused Skatje of engaging in bestiality.  Because of your wording, that is what you have led readers to believe.

My apologies - my memory is obviously hazy on the details of the incident.  What exactly did you accuse Skatje of (with links :-)) - I'm happy to go back and correct what I wrote.

Ftk:

 
Quote

It's disgusting to you, Dave.  But, copulation with man, woman (she's bisexual), beast, and relative is okay with Skatje.  So, I'm not sure why Sal is being disgusting.  Are those type of relationships "disgusting", and if so, why?


Kinda ambiguous, isn't it? It depends on whether "okay with" is intended to mean "condoning" as in the next quote from Ftk, or whether it implies that there is personal participation in all those things. The parenthetic note about bisexuality lends credence to the personal participation interpretation.

Ftk:

 
Quote

If that is not “condoning” zoophilia, then I don’t know what is.


If someone wants people to not interpret things in a certain way, taking a bit more care in the writing to exclude those interpretations would be in order. It certainly isn't excluded that Bob's interpretation could follow from recall of that first quote.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,06:29   

Quote (Ftk @ June 02 2007,14:45)
You know what, Dave?  You are the *very last person on earth* who I would ever seek to learn anything from.  You are arrogant, condescending, and down right nauseating.    

Hate by any other name.

Typical FTK. "I don't hate anybody or anything" yet it will happily use equivilent concepts to say the same thing and as far as it is concerned can still say "I don't hate" with a clear conscience. I'm sure your god is fooled.....

Nobody else is.

 
Quote
I never accused Skatje of engaging in bestiality.

No, you accused her of approving of it and then got into an extended word game regarding condoned, approved etc.

Nobody's fooled.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,06:59   

Oh goody

Quote
Oh, and I don't "hate" anyone or anything Amanda.


Obviously, FtK.  Check out my sig line.  you said it all, hun.  Sounds like hate to me, luv.  If you got hate in yer heart LET IT OUT, GIRL.

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,07:13   

I'm wondering, now that FTK is back of course, whether this is a proper visit (and thus will be completed by a standard flounce out) or if this is flounce IN.

Enquiring minds want to know FTK. Which way are you flouncing today?

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
huwp



Posts: 172
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,08:01   

Current odds:

- Fly-by post (no return, no flounce): 10-1
- Intermediate return with flounce: evens
- Full return with flounce: 5-4
- Flounce out (if more than fly-by posting): 500-1 on
- Odds of no flounce, reasoned debate and an acceptance that science need not conflict with religion etc:...

... well I tried ringing William Hill but they just laughed and put the phone down.  I suppose I could look for odds on flying pigs.  Anyone got a Betfair account?

Anyway, I'm getting popcorn just in case.

  
Rrr



Posts: 146
Joined: Nov. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,08:07   

Quote
Enquiring minds want to know FTK. Which way are you flouncing today?

Louis

WHOA now Louis. Watch where you step. You are not insinuating that F the Kids is one of those bi-flouncies, are you? If nothing else, think of the poor beebee geese!

It's been awfully quiet in here hasn't it?

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,09:24   

Quote (Rrr @ Feb. 03 2009,08:07)
Quote
Enquiring minds want to know FTK. Which way are you flouncing today?

Louis

WHOA now Louis. Watch where you step. You are not insinuating that F the Kids is one of those bi-flouncies, are you? If nothing else, think of the poor beebee geese!

It's been awfully quiet in here hasn't it?

I think you misinterpreted...

FTK would be more likely to do a two-way flounce...
#1 - Richardthughes - I think we all agree on this
#2 - Oldman?  RB?  or ___YOU make the call!

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,09:53   

Quote (Ftk @ Feb. 02 2009,23:47)
Hey, Bob...didn't appreciate the bold faced lie you wrote in the comment section....

 
Quote
She once accused PZed’s daughter of bestiality, after mis-reading a post. you can imagine how well that went down.


What a lie....just wow.  I never accused Skatje of engaging in bestiality.  Because of your wording, that is what you have led readers to believe.

And yes, OM, my laptop has been repaired...but, I've moved on to greener pastures.  I've been refering people to UD, EN&V and my site almost daily...:)

Oh, and I don't "hate" anyone or anything Amanda.

Carry on....

Does anyone else find it interesting that FtK re-appeared on Groundhog Day?

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,10:43   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Feb. 03 2009,15:53)
Does anyone else find it interesting that FtK re-appeared on Groundhog Day?

Good catch, unfortunately it looks like we're in for six more weeks of winter :(

--------------
Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,12:00   

Quote (dnmlthr @ Feb. 03 2009,16:43)
Quote (carlsonjok @ Feb. 03 2009,15:53)
Does anyone else find it interesting that FtK re-appeared on Groundhog Day?

Good catch, unfortunately it looks like we're in for six more weeks of winter TARD :(

Fixed that for you.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,12:03   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Feb. 03 2009,15:53)
Quote (Ftk @ Feb. 02 2009,23:47)
Hey, Bob...didn't appreciate the bold faced lie you wrote in the comment section....

   
Quote
She once accused PZed’s daughter of bestiality, after mis-reading a post. you can imagine how well that went down.


What a lie....just wow.  I never accused Skatje of engaging in bestiality.  Because of your wording, that is what you have led readers to believe.

And yes, OM, my laptop has been repaired...but, I've moved on to greener pastures.  I've been refering people to UD, EN&V and my site almost daily...:)

Oh, and I don't "hate" anyone or anything Amanda.

Carry on....

Does anyone else find it interesting that FtK re-appeared on Groundhog Day?

Does this mean we all have to learn what FTK loves, realise that in reality we're soul mates, make her fall in love with us or be doomed to repeat this day over and over.

There could be something in that.....*

Louis

*At least framing funsters and believers in belief would have us think so. Damn those uppity scientists/atheists (delete as applicable), why won't they just stay in their place and keep quiet?

--------------
Bye.

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,18:47   

Quote (Rrr @ Feb. 03 2009,06:07)
Quote
Enquiring minds want to know FTK. Which way are you flouncing today?

Louis

WHOA now Louis. Watch where you step. You are not insinuating that F the Kids is one of those bi-flouncies, are you? If nothing else, think of the poor beebee geese!

I heard she likes to flounce with the baby geese. Or condones it.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 03 2009,19:07   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 02 2009,22:35)
Quote
What a lie....just wow.  I never accused Skatje of engaging in bestiality.  Because of your wording, that is what you have led readers to believe.

My apologies - my memory is obviously hazy on the details of the incident.  What exactly did you accuse Skatje of (with links :-)) - I'm happy to go back and correct what I wrote.

See FTK?  That's how you respond to issues of accuracy.  Got that?  Write it down!

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 04 2009,09:19   

Quote (didymos @ Feb. 03 2009,19:07)
 
Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 02 2009,22:35)
 
Quote
What a lie....just wow.  I never accused Skatje of engaging in bestiality.  Because of your wording, that is what you have led readers to believe.

My apologies - my memory is obviously hazy on the details of the incident.  What exactly did you accuse Skatje of (with links :-)) - I'm happy to go back and correct what I wrote.

See FTK?  That's how you respond to issues of accuracy.  Got that?  Write it down!

Maybe Bob just made an unlying assumption. :p

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 04 2009,17:33   

Quote (Kristine @ Feb. 04 2009,07:19)
Quote (didymos @ Feb. 03 2009,19:07)
   
Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 02 2009,22:35)
   
Quote
What a lie....just wow.  I never accused Skatje of engaging in bestiality.  Because of your wording, that is what you have led readers to believe.

My apologies - my memory is obviously hazy on the details of the incident.  What exactly did you accuse Skatje of (with links :-)) - I'm happy to go back and correct what I wrote.

See FTK?  That's how you respond to issues of accuracy.  Got that?  Write it down!

Maybe Bob just made an unlying assumption. :p

WTF? When did PZ let her out of the dungeon over there? Man, I need to pay more attention.....

Edit: OK, I really need to pay more attention. Old comment.

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2009,08:24   

You know, I'm still waiting for FtK to provide her side of the story over the Skatje affair.  If I'm going to correct what I wrote previously, I want to know what I'm correcting to.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2009,09:58   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 06 2009,08:24)
You know, I'm still waiting for FtK to...

Just how many times are you guys going to press that bar, waiting for cheezburger drop? ;)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
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