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Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 12 2010,06:42    Quote Salvador T. Cordova: Ernst Mayer points out (as quoted by McHugh): Quote Evolutionary biology, in contrast with physics and chemistry, is a historical science…[where] Laws and experiments are inappropriate… …. Instead one constructs a … narrative Quite a prolific use of ellipses. Quote Salvador T. Cordova: So Coyne's field is notrious for storytelling, not for science, and not for falsifiability. Just because it's historical doesn't mean it isn't science, nor did Mayr suggest that. Mayr continues, Quote Ernst Mayr: The testing of historical narratives implies that the wide gap between science and the humanities that so troubled physicist C. P. Snow is actually nonexistent - by virtue of its methodology and its acceptance of the time factor that makes change possible, evolutionary biology serves as a bridge. So, historical narratives are testable. Mayr says elsewhere, Quote Ernst Mayr: As I say in the first section of the book, I don't need to prove it again, evolution is so clearly a fact that you need to be committed to something like a belief in the supernatural if you are at all in disagreement with evolution. It is a fact and we don't need to prove it anymore. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

KCdgw Posts: 376 Joined: Sep. 2002 (Permalink) Posted: July 14 2010,11:24    olegt:     Quote   Quote Sal: That's about the 5 time at TT you've pointed a severe misunderstanding on my part regarding physics and helped me learn. Thank you again. Some people never learn. -------------- Those who know the truth are not equal to those who love it-- Confucius

Aardvark Posts: 134 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2010,11:19    fifth monarchy man Says: Quote I have a personal relationship with God the same way that I have a personal relationship with my wife. I just dunno.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2010,11:26    Quote (Aardvark @ July 16 2010,11:19) fifth monarchy man Says: Quote I have a personal relationship with God the same way that I have a personal relationship with my wife. I just dunno. Someone's not getting any.. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Texas Teach Posts: 2084 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2010,11:53    Quote (Aardvark @ July 16 2010,11:19) fifth monarchy man Says: Quote I have a personal relationship with God the same way that I have a personal relationship with my wife. I just dunno. Given how many people his god is supposed to have a personal relationship with, what does that say about his wife? -------------- "Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr "I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2010,12:56    Quote (Texas Teach @ July 16 2010,09:53) Quote (Aardvark @ July 16 2010,11:19) fifth monarchy man Says:   Quote I have a personal relationship with God the same way that I have a personal relationship with my wife. I just dunno. Given how many people his god is supposed to have a personal relationship with, what does that say about his wife? Zing!!! I have a personal relationship with the dryads living in the forest behind my house. No, I've never seen them, but I believe in them and talk to them, which is convincing evidence they're real. (headshake). -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Aardvark Posts: 134 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2010,13:50    Quote (Texas Teach @ July 16 2010,11:53)   Quote (Aardvark @ July 16 2010,11:19) fifth monarchy man Says:     Quote I have a personal relationship with God the same way that I have a personal relationship with my wife. I just dunno. Given how many people his god is supposed to have a personal relationship with, what does that say about his wife? On his wife:   Quote If it was proven that my wife did not exist I would not think she was a liar.

Robin Posts: 1431 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2010,13:52    Quote (fnxtr @ July 16 2010,12:56) Just an FYI, but when I clicked on the links above an hour or so ago, I got a pop-up for some malware trojan called "Your Protection". Both seemed to redirect to the site where I got a message like "Warning: Your computer could be infected! Would you like to run a scan now?" There was no "no" choice". I just Went to Task Manager and shut down my browser, though it still tried to load. I just tried the links now and they seem fine. Not sure If I clicked on something else by mistake, but AtBC was the only site I had open and this was the board I was on. -------------- we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

Raevmo Posts: 235 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2010,15:38    Quote Just an FYI, but when I clicked on the links above an hour or so ago, I got a pop-up for some malware trojan called "Your Protection". Both seemed to redirect to the site where I got a message like "Warning: Your computer could be infected! Would you like to run a scan now?" There was no "no" choice". I just Went to Task Manager and shut down my browser, though it still tried to load. Same here. -------------- After much reflection I finally realized that the best way to describe the cause of the universe is: the great I AM. --GilDodgen

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2010,17:59    Quote (Raevmo @ July 16 2010,13:38)   Quote Just an FYI, but when I clicked on the links above an hour or so ago, I got a pop-up for some malware trojan called "Your Protection". Both seemed to redirect to the site where I got a message like "Warning: Your computer could be infected! Would you like to run a scan now?" There was no "no" choice". I just Went to Task Manager and shut down my browser, though it still tried to load. Same here. ?? What links? Aardvark's link to telic thoughts? Works fine for me... -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Acipenser Posts: 35 Joined: Jan. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2010,18:09    I received the same warning when I tried to access TT directly from my computer in our office.

Aardvark Posts: 134 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 16 2010,19:40    Regarding the pop-ups: Farshad Says: (I won't link to the comment) Quote Warning! This site is infected with WordPress Redirect Exploit trojan. Instructions to clean: http://wiki.mediatemple.net/w/WordPress_Redirect_Exploit regards, Farshad I use No-script, so I guess that's why it never happened to me.

KCdgw Posts: 376 Joined: Sep. 2002 (Permalink) Posted: July 19 2010,12:45    We can haz ID predickshun! fifth monarchy man: Quote I for one have often thought about variability in genome sizes and I think the recent findings are a great opportunity to test the arguement and move forward in this debate. I offer the following prediction All things being equal, if two similar organisms have very different genome sizes the larger genome will be found in the organism with the most varied growth conditions. For example If It is found that Coyotes and Grey foxes have different size genomes I would expect Coyotes to have the larger one because of their more varied diet and habitat. The same goes for house flies verses fruit flies. as TP says "lets do science" -------------- Those who know the truth are not equal to those who love it-- Confucius

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 19 2010,13:56    Quote (KCdgw @ July 19 2010,12:45) We can haz ID predickshun! fifth monarchy man:   Quote I for one have often thought about variability in genome sizes and I think the recent findings are a great opportunity to test the arguement and move forward in this debate. I offer the following prediction All things being equal, if two similar organisms have very different genome sizes the larger genome will be found in the organism with the most varied growth conditions. For example If It is found that Coyotes and Grey foxes have different size genomes I would expect Coyotes to have the larger one because of their more varied diet and habitat. The same goes for house flies verses fruit flies. as TP says "lets do science" I'd be interested to hear if this yahoo can tell us why, exactly, this prediction arises from ID "theory". Do we expect this relationship between "varied" growth conditions and genome size based on the THINK, or on the POOF elements of design theory? -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

KCdgw Posts: 376 Joined: Sep. 2002 (Permalink) Posted: July 19 2010,15:11    Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 19 2010,13:56) Quote (KCdgw @ July 19 2010,12:45) We can haz ID predickshun! fifth monarchy man:   Quote I for one have often thought about variability in genome sizes and I think the recent findings are a great opportunity to test the arguement and move forward in this debate. I offer the following prediction All things being equal, if two similar organisms have very different genome sizes the larger genome will be found in the organism with the most varied growth conditions. For example If It is found that Coyotes and Grey foxes have different size genomes I would expect Coyotes to have the larger one because of their more varied diet and habitat. The same goes for house flies verses fruit flies. as TP says "lets do science" I'd be interested to hear if this yahoo can tell us why, exactly, this prediction arises from ID "theory". Do we expect this relationship between "varied" growth conditions and genome size based on the THINK, or on the POOF elements of design theory? I think FMM's idea is, a designer would want to provide organisms that are exposed to wide-ranging habitats or diets more DNA to develop adaptive solutions. -------------- Those who know the truth are not equal to those who love it-- Confucius

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 19 2010,16:59    Quote (KCdgw @ July 19 2010,15:11) Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 19 2010,13:56) Quote (KCdgw @ July 19 2010,12:45) We can haz ID predickshun! fifth monarchy man:     Quote I for one have often thought about variability in genome sizes and I think the recent findings are a great opportunity to test the arguement and move forward in this debate. I offer the following prediction All things being equal, if two similar organisms have very different genome sizes the larger genome will be found in the organism with the most varied growth conditions. For example If It is found that Coyotes and Grey foxes have different size genomes I would expect Coyotes to have the larger one because of their more varied diet and habitat. The same goes for house flies verses fruit flies. as TP says "lets do science" I'd be interested to hear if this yahoo can tell us why, exactly, this prediction arises from ID "theory". Do we expect this relationship between "varied" growth conditions and genome size based on the THINK, or on the POOF elements of design theory? I think FMM's idea is, a designer would want to provide organisms that are exposed to wide-ranging habitats or diets more DNA to develop adaptive solutions. Ah, then he must think that he knows something about the designer's thought processes. And here I thought ID was telling us that knowledge about the designer is not necessary in order to detect design. Maybe he needs a reminder. Or maybe you can ask him the source of his knowledge about the mysterious designer! -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2010,08:22    We may have finally discovered the reason that ID Science has been stalled for so long. It's all Nick Matzke's fault! Quote Nick Matzke: Ah, what a refreshing turn of events! People are actually trying to account for the phenomenon for once, and finding it's not so easy. Why has genome size variability not been a part of every ID discussion of the junk DNA question, when it's clearly the fundamental basis for discussion of the topic of whether or not junk DNA in general is functional. ... I and many others have talked about this stuff for years on the blogs, but not one prominent IDist has even bothered to get up to speed with these basics of the discussion, which I got straight from the literature on genome size evolution. I wonder why? Quote Nick Matzke: I wonder why? fifth monarchy man: three possible answers 1) your attitude 2) your perceived motive 3) lack of interest in a subject (genome size) that up till now did not seem to have any thing to do with the ID debate Well, that and lack of interest in IDers. Bad Nick Matzke. Bad. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2010,09:13    Quote (Zachriel @ July 20 2010,08:22) fifth monarchy man: three possible answers 1) your attitude 2) your perceived motive 3) lack of interest in a subject (genome size) that up till now did not seem to have any thing to do with the ID debate Bad Nick Matzke. Bad. 4) IDCists ignorance about the subject 5) No obvious way to shoehorn Lewis, Chesterton and Jesus into the conversation 6) I DON'T KNOW / OTHER (the one IDCists Always forget) -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

JAM Posts: 517 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2010,10:26    Quote (KCdgw @ July 19 2010,14:11) Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 19 2010,13:56) Quote (KCdgw @ July 19 2010,12:45) We can haz ID predickshun! fifth monarchy man:     Quote I for one have often thought about variability in genome sizes and I think the recent findings are a great opportunity to test the arguement and move forward in this debate. I offer the following prediction All things being equal, if two similar organisms have very different genome sizes the larger genome will be found in the organism with the most varied growth conditions. For example If It is found that Coyotes and Grey foxes have different size genomes I would expect Coyotes to have the larger one because of their more varied diet and habitat. The same goes for house flies verses fruit flies. as TP says "lets do science" I'd be interested to hear if this yahoo can tell us why, exactly, this prediction arises from ID "theory". Do we expect this relationship between "varied" growth conditions and genome size based on the THINK, or on the POOF elements of design theory? I think FMM's idea is, a designer would want to provide organisms that are exposed to wide-ranging habitats or diets more DNA to develop adaptive solutions. But why did you smack him down so quickly with data? Why not savor the moment and drum up interest? I think you capped off a huge tard flow too efficiently.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2010,11:16    wow: Quote Forbidden You don't have permission to access /redundant-but-not-junk/ on this server. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Apache/2.0.54 Server at telicthoughts.com Port 80 -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2010,11:29    Quote (Richardthughes @ July 20 2010,11:16) wow: Quote Forbidden You don't have permission to access /redundant-but-not-junk/ on this server. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Apache/2.0.54 Server at telicthoughts.com Port 80 I get that too, site borked I think. -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

KCdgw Posts: 376 Joined: Sep. 2002 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2010,11:52    Quote (JAM @ July 20 2010,10:26) Quote (KCdgw @ July 19 2010,14:11) Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 19 2010,13:56)   Quote (KCdgw @ July 19 2010,12:45) We can haz ID predickshun! fifth monarchy man:     Quote I for one have often thought about variability in genome sizes and I think the recent findings are a great opportunity to test the arguement and move forward in this debate. I offer the following prediction All things being equal, if two similar organisms have very different genome sizes the larger genome will be found in the organism with the most varied growth conditions. For example If It is found that Coyotes and Grey foxes have different size genomes I would expect Coyotes to have the larger one because of their more varied diet and habitat. The same goes for house flies verses fruit flies. as TP says "lets do science" I'd be interested to hear if this yahoo can tell us why, exactly, this prediction arises from ID "theory". Do we expect this relationship between "varied" growth conditions and genome size based on the THINK, or on the POOF elements of design theory? I think FMM's idea is, a designer would want to provide organisms that are exposed to wide-ranging habitats or diets more DNA to develop adaptive solutions. But why did you smack him down so quickly with data? Why not savor the moment and drum up interest? I think you capped off a huge tard flow too efficiently. Well, it was the the first actual testable prediction I've seen out of that site, so I got excited. And it's been a fairly respectful exchange, for once. -------------- Those who know the truth are not equal to those who love it-- Confucius

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2010,11:58    Quote (Richardthughes @ July 20 2010,11:16) wow: Quote Forbidden You don't have permission to access /redundant-but-not-junk/ on this server. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Apache/2.0.54 Server at telicthoughts.com Port 80 Closed for housecleaning? -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2010,12:51    Quote (midwifetoad @ July 20 2010,11:58) Closed for housecleaning? Interesting euphemism. I think "flushing" is more apt than "housecleaning", and certainly quicker. -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 20 2010,12:57    Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 20 2010,12:51) Quote (midwifetoad @ July 20 2010,11:58) Closed for housecleaning? Interesting euphemism. I think "flushing" is more apt than "housecleaning", and certainly quicker. YOU ARE RONG. AT TELICK THOUGHTS THE GOOD STUFF IS NIXPLANITERALLY FILTERED AWAY SO ONLY THE TURDS REMAIN. WHICH REMINDS ME, I NEED A POO. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 27 2010,20:14    Quote Bradford: Overcoming lies of the left is a tiresome task. But someone has to do it. Read this.   Quote It is likely to come as a surprise that the US has become a model for its reduction in GHG emissions over the last decade. Olegt asks repeatedly to say what the "lies" are, but Bradford never gets around to it. Olegt also points out that the growth in emissions has hesitated due to the global recession. In any case, the U.S. emits more than twice the greenhouse gases as European countries with a comparable level of industrialization and living standard, and several times per capita usage in China or India. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 02 2010,06:32    Quote Bradford: PZ is symbolic of something much more extensive than his blog. It's a malignant communication style that sabotages the ability of different factions in society to cooperate and get along. olegt: This is a typical case of the pot calling the kettle black. You regularly denounce "the lefties" on this blog and now you accuse PZ of being divisive? The irony is thick. Bradford: I do attack leftist ideas and criticize leftists but most critques are devoid of the type of personal attacks that typify PZ and his supporters. Elsewhere, someone using the nom de plume "Bradford" paints with a broad brush. Quote Bradford: Seriously, what is wrong with leftists? Is there a genetic mutation that explains the need to bow down before a murdering thug whose chief claim to fame is having reigned over an impoverished island like the tyrant that he is? Olegt has the skinny. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Zachriel Posts: 2723 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 07 2010,06:35    Bradford pens his latest diatribe. Quote Bradford: Creeping Scientific Authoritarianism For support, he quotes an article from the American Enterprise Institute. They provide two examples of authoritarian tone in science. Quote Green & Alaghebandian: Friends of the Earth writes, “For example, science tells us we must reduce our global greenhouse gas emissions to prevent dangerous climate change.” America’s climate change negotiator in Copenhagen is quoted by the World Wildlife Fund as saying, “China must do significantly more if we are to have a chance to solve the problem and to arrive at an international agreement that achieves what science tells us we must.” Science as dictator—not a pretty sight. The World Wildlife Fund is an advocacy group, of course, not a scientific organization. And their statement is correct. The science does indicate that if we want to prevent dangerous climate change, it will require a reduction in global greenhouse gas emissions. America’s climate change negotiator, Todd Stern, is also not a scientist. Again, the statement includes the  antecedent concerning solving the problem. -------------- You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 07 2010,06:51    An interesting view of effective contribution, per capita. I'm wondering if france gets relatively better marks because of it's use of nukes. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

dogdidit Posts: 315 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 07 2010,10:33    Quote (midwifetoad @ Aug. 07 2010,06:51) An interesting view of effective contribution, per capita. I'm wondering if france gets relatively better marks because of it's use of nukes. Per capita responsibility is fine, but using a map colored this way creates the impression that (for example) 20 million Aussies are responsible for as much CO2 as 300 million Americans. Perhaps the map should display emissions per square kilometer? Or do away with the map and bar-chart the results, stacked in magnitude order? You're assumptions are correct about the French nukes, from which they derive an overwhelming proportion of their electrical power. They generate enough to export. -------------- "Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

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