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Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,10:26   

Jack, put that stick down and come away from the ants' nest!
Quote
24

Jack Krebs

06/29/2008

10:08 am

Tard Alert!

HI Alan - thanks for the articulate explanation of open theism, especially in regards to the nature of the future and therefore the unfolding of histories of all sorts.
I’m assuming, although the purpose of this post is to check this understanding, that open theism would accept an evolutionary explanation of the history of life as opposed to rejecting it because of the role contingent events play in such an explanation.
Would you be willing to comment on this?


--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,13:44   

Quote (simmi @ June 29 2008,10:02)
Episode 7: Evolution can't explain love. What is love? God did it! (Baby don't hurt me...)

LOL. Baby don't hurt me...no more....

   
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,14:57   

Quote (Bob O'H @ June 29 2008,01:44)
Denyse's thread is great.  Aside from the tard, there is an interesting theological discussion.  Of course, it's not from the regulars, and Alan Rhoda pwns Dembski in the way only academics can (short translation: you don't have a clue what you're talking about).

In response to Alan Rhoda, Dr. Dr. D splutters (my emphasis)  
Quote
A God who does not know the future is not sovereign over it and thus can, strictly speaking, offer no guarantees about its unfolding.

Ummm, about this guarantee thing. Does the bible tell us that God gives guarantees about the future?  Is this perhaps a bit egotistical of Dr. Dr. D to think that God will give him (or anyone) a guarantee? What's the point of being God if you have to give stinking guarantees about the future?

I freely admit that theology is not my strong suit, so if a more educated person could translate this Dembskism for me, I'd really appreciate it.

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,15:03   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ June 29 2008,15:57)
Quote (Bob O'H @ June 29 2008,01:44)
Denyse's thread is great.  Aside from the tard, there is an interesting theological discussion.  Of course, it's not from the regulars, and Alan Rhoda pwns Dembski in the way only academics can (short translation: you don't have a clue what you're talking about).

In response to Alan Rhoda, Dr. Dr. D splutters (my emphasis)    
Quote
A God who does not know the future is not sovereign over it and thus can, strictly speaking, offer no guarantees about its unfolding.

Ummm, about this guarantee thing. Does the bible tell us that God gives guarantees about the future?  Is this perhaps a bit egotistical of Dr. Dr. D to think that God will give him (or anyone) a guarantee? What's the point of being God if you have to give stinking guarantees about the future?

I freely admit that theology is not my strong suit, so if a more educated person could translate this Dembskism for me, I'd really appreciate it.

What WAD wants is a warranty, not a guarantee. There's a form in the back of his bible he is supposed to complete and send in.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,15:27   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ June 29 2008,21:03)
What WAD wants is a warranty, not a guarantee. There's a form in the back of his bible he is supposed to complete and send in.

Guess he missed the sticker that said "warranty void if opened".

--------------
Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,15:30   

Quote (dnmlthr @ June 29 2008,13:27)
 
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ June 29 2008,21:03)
What WAD wants is a warranty, not a guarantee. There's a form in the back of his bible he is supposed to complete and send in.

Guess he missed the sticker that said "warranty void if opened".

Either way he's SOL -- the expiration date was years ago.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,16:09   

Quote (keiths @ June 29 2008,05:45)
Quote (Bob O'H @ June 28 2008,23:44)
Denyse's thread is great.  Aside from the tard, there is an interesting theological discussion.  Of course, it's not from the regulars, and Alan Rhoda pwns Dembski in the way only academics can (short translation: you don't have a clue what you're talking about).

The best thing about that thread is imagining how Dembski hears it:
Quote

O'Leary:
Quack, quack, quack...

Rhoda:
Denyse, with all due respect, WTF are you talking about?  Stick to the propaganda and leave the thinking to the big boys.

Dembski:
I'm not sure Denyse is as wrong as you think she is.

Beckwith:
Hi Bill, haven't seen you since I converted back to Catholicism, quit the Discovery Institute, and got tenure at Baylor.  How's your career going?  I disagree with Alan about open theism, but he's a hell of a lot smarter than you and that halfwit you're defending.  Alan and I met at the Baylor cafeteria recently -- you know the one -- to talk about our future work together at Notre Dame.  Have you heard of it?

Where did you say you are now?  Southwest what?


O'Leary:
Quack, quack, quack...

Rhoda:  
Respectfully, Denyse, I must say that you know less about open theism than Bill Dembski does about the social graces.  Two plus two does not equal eight, moron.  And I mean that respectfully.

Rhoda:
Thanks for the introduction, Frank.  I look forward to eating with you and your wife at the Notre Dame cafeteria.  

keiths:

Excellent!  You have some outstanding translation software - Gil Dodgem must be insanely jeaolous.

Please save your post so you can post it again *-

I nominate this as today's "POTW"!

* I wish the room for a sig line was bigger, cuz your whole post would be outstanding.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,17:09   

Quote (keiths @ June 29 2008,06:45)
Quote (Bob O'H @ June 28 2008,23:44)
Denyse's thread is great.  Aside from the tard, there is an interesting theological discussion.  Of course, it's not from the regulars, and Alan Rhoda pwns Dembski in the way only academics can (short translation: you don't have a clue what you're talking about).

The best thing about that thread is imagining how Dembski hears it:
 
Quote

O'Leary:
Quack, quack, quack...

Rhoda:
Denyse, with all due respect, WTF are you talking about?  Stick to the propaganda and leave the thinking to the big boys.

Dembski:
I'm not sure Denyse is as wrong as you think she is.

Beckwith:
Hi Bill, haven't seen you since I converted back to Catholicism, quit the Discovery Institute, and got tenure at Baylor.  How's your career going?  I disagree with Alan about open theism, but he's a hell of a lot smarter than you and that halfwit you're defending.  Alan and I met at the Baylor cafeteria recently -- you know the one -- to talk about our future work together at Notre Dame.  Have you heard of it?

Where did you say you are now?  Southwest what?


O'Leary:
Quack, quack, quack...

Rhoda:  
Respectfully, Denyse, I must say that you know less about open theism than Bill Dembski does about the social graces.  Two plus two does not equal eight, moron.  And I mean that respectfully.

Rhoda:
Thanks for the introduction, Frank.  I look forward to eating with you and your wife at the Notre Dame cafeteria.  



So let it be written.

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,17:32   

I wonder if there's an easy way to do a word count on this thread. Seems like you'd have to turn off display of sigs, download the whole thing, then somehow clip anything between quote tags. I'm just curious how many words are contained in these 29,470 comments.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,17:41   

Based on some of the medium-size threads it looks like we get about 180 comments per meg of file space. So the ikonboard.cgi file for the whole UD thread is probably somewhere around 163-180 megabytes.

Edited by stevestory on June 29 2008,18:43

   
Dr.GH



Posts: 2333
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,18:01   

The more important question is how to calculate the threads CSI.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Maya



Posts: 702
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,18:03   

Quote (stevestory @ June 29 2008,17:32)
I wonder if there's an easy way to do a word count on this thread. Seems like you'd have to turn off display of sigs, download the whole thing, then somehow clip anything between quote tags. I'm just curious how many words are contained in these 29,470 comments.

After applying the appropriate compression algorithm (text speak), there are two words:

OMFG!  LOL!

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,18:47   

Quote (Dr.GH @ June 29 2008,19:01)
The more important question is how to calculate the threads CSI.

We'll calculate the CSI the same way the IDers do. Squint at it, and then announce that you found "none", "some", or "a lot".

(squints): a lot.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,18:57   

It's been two and a half years since this thread began. 29,450 comments. When we hit 30,000 comments, for the sake of the unwieldy file size, we will close this thread. Like a decommissioned ship to become a coral reef, it will slowly sink below the surface and off the page. But we'll all be partying on our new cruise ship, the sleek and efficient Son of UD Thread. At the historical rate of comments on this thread, the new thread will be christened sometime around mid-July.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,19:00   

That's two weeks to think of a cool title.

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,19:05   

Quote (stevestory @ June 29 2008,19:57)
At the historical rate of comments on this thread, the new thread will be christened sometime around mid-July.

That might be entirely a function of Friday meltdowns.  There are mornings when I pop in here to find four or five pages gone by in the overnight.

Other times there are several days to a full page.

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,19:28   

Quote (stevestory @ June 29 2008,19:00)
That's two weeks to think of a cool title.

Well, if I may engage in a little shameless self-promotion, my suggestion would be Uncommon Descent into Madness.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,19:41   

Quote (stevestory @ June 29 2008,16:57)
It's been two and a half years since this thread began. 29,450 comments. When we hit 30,000 comments, for the sake of the unwieldy file size, we will close this thread. Like a decommissioned ship to become a coral reef, it will slowly sink below the surface and off the page. But we'll all be partying on our new cruise ship, the sleek and efficient Son of UD Thread. At the historical rate of comments on this thread, the new thread will be christened sometime around mid-July.

Why not cut it off when this thread reaches 1,000 pages?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,19:47   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 29 2008,19:41)
Quote (stevestory @ June 29 2008,16:57)
It's been two and a half years since this thread began. 29,450 comments. When we hit 30,000 comments, for the sake of the unwieldy file size, we will close this thread. Like a decommissioned ship to become a coral reef, it will slowly sink below the surface and off the page. But we'll all be partying on our new cruise ship, the sleek and efficient Son of UD Thread. At the historical rate of comments on this thread, the new thread will be christened sometime around mid-July.

Why not cut it off when this thread reaches 1,000 pages?

You want to think about that again, Tarden?

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,19:49   

Nobody tell arden each page has 30 comments....

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,20:12   

Quote


37

Frost122585

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-291688

06/29/2008

7:51 pm

Tard Alert!

Basically since “time” is the real problem being discussed here it is then an obvious solution to just simply eliminate it. Gödel did this and relativity both scientifically and philosophically supports it. However I do concede that Gödel’s theory could be wrong and there could be an actual objective time


What the hell is he talking about?

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,20:23   

Alan Rhoda:
Quote

Hi Denyse,
Respectfully, I must say that your follow-up response to me betrays profound confusion regarding what open theism is.


I have no doubt that in a few years we will be retiring the Son of UD Thread and replacing it with Grandson of UD...

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,22:33   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 29 2008,20:41)
Quote (stevestory @ June 29 2008,16:57)
It's been two and a half years since this thread began. 29,450 comments. When we hit 30,000 comments, for the sake of the unwieldy file size, we will close this thread. Like a decommissioned ship to become a coral reef, it will slowly sink below the surface and off the page. But we'll all be partying on our new cruise ship, the sleek and efficient Son of UD Thread. At the historical rate of comments on this thread, the new thread will be christened sometime around mid-July.

Why not cut it off when this thread reaches 1,000 pages?

Go stand in a corner and think about what you've just said, young man.

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2008,23:51   

Turd Sandw(h)ich:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....re-3439

best bit..

Quote
—ENDORSEMENTS—

“Bill and Sean have written a superb book that I wish I had when I was in high school — it would have spared me decades of believing in Darwinism! This book presents a crystal-clear overview of the most important and exciting development in science in our lifetime — the growing recognition that life and the cosmos reveal clear scientific evidence for design by a Mind.”
–Michael Egnor, M.D., Professor and Vice-Chairman, Department of Neurosurgery, State University of New York at Stony Brook, featured in Ben Stein’s Expelled

“Understanding Intelligent Design provides a magnificent introductory explanation of the most significant intellectual controversy of our time. I highly recommend it.”
–Phillip E. Johnson, author of Darwin on Trial

“This book is long overdue! Finally, an understandable, engaging, and well-written introduction to intelligent design. Understanding Intelligent Design is the best book of its type.”
–J.P. Moreland, Distinguished Professor of Philosophy, Biola University and author of Kingdom Triangle

“In my book Godless, I showed that Darwinism is the hoax of the century and, consequently, the core of the religion of liberalism. Like John the Baptist, Darwin foretold one of the key tenets of the left’s worldview: that humans are accidental descendants of earthworms, not the unique creations of an all-powerful God. Liberals respond to critics of their religion like Cotton Mather to Salem’s “witches.” With this book, two more witches present themselves for burning: Sean McDowell, whose gift is communicating with young people, and Bill Dembski, often called the Isaac Newton of Intelligent Design. I think Dembski is more like the Dick Butkus of Intelligent Design. His record for tackling Darwiniacs is unmatched. This book gives young people all the ammo they need to take on Darwinism and understand the only viable scientific alternative to Darwinism: Intelligent Design. Every high school student in America needs a copy of Understanding Intelligent Design.”
–Ann Coulter, BESTSELLING author of Godless: The Church of Liberalism

“Written especially for young people, this is a lucid presentation of the philosophical and scientific factors that contribute to the debate about origins. It is a “must-read” for Christian teenagers!”
–Caroline Crocker, MSc, PhD, Executive Director, IDEA Center (www.ideacenter.org), featured in Ben Stein’s Expelled

“Intelligent Design is often rejected, but rarely understood, especially by those who incessantly tell the rest of us to keep an “open mind.” This is an age when sophisticated academics do not flinch at requiring public school students to watch “sex education” demonstrations that involve bananas and condoms. Yet these same intellectuals insist that our children be shielded from any literature that may cast doubts on materialism. This is why ID advocates would face less resistance in our more cerebral venues if someone somewhere would just label it as pornography. But, alas, that has not happened. So, you’ll just have to discover by your lonesome self what gets Richard Dawkins’ panties in a bunch. Start by reading this book and learning something. If you wind up disagreeing with portions of it or even the whole thing, that’s okay, for many of us (me included) have issues with and questions about ID as well. But some of us are far more suspicious of the thought-police that want to ‘protect you’ from this new boogey man.”
–Francis J. Beckwith, Professor of Philosophy and Church-State Studies, Baylor University

“‘Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not one bit simpler.’So runs a quote often attributed to Einstein. Using clear and easily read prose, Dembski and McDowell do exactly this in painting a powerful and wonderfully coherent case for intelligent design.”
–Robert J. Marks II, Ph.D., Distinguished Professor of Electrical and Computer Engineering, Baylor University, featured in Ben Stein’s Expelled

“I once asked a juvenile felon why he chose a life of crime. His response was chilling: “Joel, if this is all there is, why not?” Understanding Intelligent Design takes a great first step toward correcting such attitudes. Our schools indoctrinate young people into thinking that they are nothing more than products of time plus chance plus natural selection. ID, by contrast, shows that purpose must be added to this equation. This automatically gives young people a meaning to their existence, something to live for and something to seek after. For anyone who is struggling to understand our place in the cosmos or knows a young person who is, give them Understanding Intelligent Design.”
–Joel Borofsky, Worldview Blogger (www.thechristianwatershed.com)


It's a who's who of Tardom!Sal was unavailable for endorsement?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,00:37   

Yay! High quality Tard.  Get your fill

russ asks...
Quote
2

russ

06/29/2008

9:16 pm

Tard Alert!

Quote
“Joel, if this is all there is, why not?” Understanding Intelligent Design takes a great first step toward correcting such attitudes.

Slightly off topic:
Since the price of oil and other natural resources is in the news, it occurred to me that the wonderful usefulness of petroleum, gold, copper, aluminum, iron, titanium and all the others is quite a happy coincidence. Why should these wonderful resources be laying just beneath the surface for us to use on this particular planet? It hardly seems we could have evolved into beings who would find these things useful to ourselves, since we had to become highly intelligent beings to make anything useful of them in the first place. Would a Darwinist call this dumb luck, or are most other planets pinatas full of goodies like this one?


bFast provides the cream
Quote
7

bFast

06/29/2008

11:57 pm

Tard Alert!

Russ, I also have been toying with the same thought line. Have you ever considered milk? The stuff separates into milk and cream very easily. Yet I don’t know of this phenomenon being used in nature. The cream, once shaken, turns into cottage cheese, butter and butter milk. With a little common bacteria, you get cheese. Yogurt is just about as easy to make. Does this give you the feeling that these varieties were waiting to be discovered — like hidden treasure? It’s just all too easy to find such wonderful, yet unimplemented properties in nature.


--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,00:44   

That all follows the Fundamental Theorem of ID:

X blows my fragile little mind, therefore magic.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,00:53   

Quote (Bob O'H @ June 30 2008,01:37)
[/quote]
Slightly off topic:
Since the price of oil and other natural resources is in the news, it occurred to me that the wonderful usefulness of petroleum, gold, copper, aluminum, iron, titanium and all the others is quite a happy coincidence. Why should these wonderful resources be laying just beneath the surface for us to use on this particular planet?
[/quote]

Most of the iron is in the Earth's core, not in the crust, btw.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,01:38   

Dembski:

Quote
I was particularly concerned in writing the book to inoculate young people not only against the atheistic poison of Dawkins and Co. but also against the theological and scientific confusions of theistic evolutionists (like Ken Miller and Francis Collins). If this book does its job, both these camps will lose much of their traction with young people.


Wasn't that the purpose of Overwhelming Evidence? How's that going Bill?

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,01:43   

Gil discusses "Biological Neg-Entropy":
Quote
How one cannot arrive at a design inference from this obvious evidence is a complete mystery to me.


We've seen that formulation from him before. He's genuinely confused why the expert scientists don't understand what's obvious to him. Any chance he'll figure out it's because he's wrong, and the experts know better?

Slim to none, I'd say.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,01:46   

Gil gets the faintest clue:
Quote
GilDodgen

06/29/2008

9:08 pm

Tard Alert!

The genetic entropy problem raises questions for me about the front-loading hypothesis. If, even with error detection and correction, which can never be perfect, species eventually become extinct as a result of genetic informational decay, how would the presumably long-preserved information, waiting to be expressed at a much later date (like a billion years) evade the informational decay that causes extinctions?


This is exactly why front-loading is stupid, Gil. Sadly, you hang out on a website where most people are too dumb to notice that.

   
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