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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 2, general discussion of Dembski's site< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,12:29   

Another hint:



--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,12:35   

Quote (Zachriel @ Aug. 05 2008,11:17)
For those suffering from a deficit of T.A.R.D.™, Joseph is back.

Quote
Garamond: {Evolutionary Theory} predicts that life will be imperfect replicators in a resource-limited environment and that variations due to imperfect replication will ultimately lead to speciation (which predicts that all life we find on a given planet will have a common ancestor).

Joseph: That is total nonsense. Life, as we know it, is much more than imperfect replicators. Also you seem to be implying that if we found a perfect replicator that would falsify the MS. More nonsense.

Garamond didn't say that was all there was to life; he just said it was a prediction.

Quote
Joseph: tRNA just “grabs” the corresponding amino acid. But how does a “dumb” molecule “know” how to do that?

It doesn't "know", Joseph, any more than Mars knows when to go retrograde.

Quote
Joseph: Or perhaps you can tell us how to test the simple premise that chimps and humans share a common ancestor.

I wonder how long it will take before the ID Community corrects Joseph on his misconceptions about Common Descent. Say 'nested hierarchy'.

Oh man. Joseph brings the good stuff. This tard is like, from Hawaii, man. It'll put you down.

   
Venus Mousetrap



Posts: 201
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,13:23   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Aug. 05 2008,12:29)
Another hint:


Never heard of him.

Personally I feel ID is better represented by this.

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,13:24   

Quote (Zachriel @ Aug. 05 2008,10:17)
 
Quote
Joseph: tRNA just “grabs” the corresponding amino acid. But how does a “dumb” molecule “know” how to do that?

It doesn't "know", Joseph, any more than Mars knows when to go retrograde.

Ouch.  Ouch.  Ouch.  

I guess it's too late for a PotW nomination, but I thought that argument was nailed like a cracker in Morris.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,13:36   

Quote (Maya @ Aug. 05 2008,11:24)
Quote (Venus Mousetrap @ Aug. 05 2008,12:08)
Quote (Marion Delgado @ Aug. 05 2008,01:15)
If it weren't for banned luck, they'd have no luck at all.

gloom despair and agony on me!


how stupid am I if I don't even slightly get this?

You must be suffering from deep, dark depression and excessive misery.

Think "Hee Haw". ;)

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,14:12   

Quote (Venus Mousetrap @ Aug. 05 2008,13:23)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Aug. 05 2008,12:29)
Another hint:


Never heard of him.

Personally I feel ID is better represented by this.

Oh for Pete's sake... :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKY8KIt9kqc

"If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all."

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,14:33   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Aug. 05 2008,14:24)
Quote (Zachriel @ Aug. 05 2008,10:17)
 
Quote
Joseph: tRNA just “grabs” the corresponding amino acid. But how does a “dumb” molecule “know” how to do that?

It doesn't "know", Joseph, any more than Mars knows when to go retrograde.

Ouch.  Ouch.  Ouch.  

I guess it's too late for a PotW nomination, but I thought that argument was nailed like a cracker in Morris.

I don't think you understand how Post of the Week works around here....

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,14:48   

Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 05 2008,12:33)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Aug. 05 2008,14:24)
Quote (Zachriel @ Aug. 05 2008,10:17)
   
Quote
Joseph: tRNA just “grabs” the corresponding amino acid. But how does a “dumb” molecule “know” how to do that?

It doesn't "know", Joseph, any more than Mars knows when to go retrograde.

Ouch.  Ouch.  Ouch.  

I guess it's too late for a PotW nomination, but I thought that argument was nailed like a cracker in Morris.

I don't think you understand how Post of the Week works around here....

Indeed. Around here we define 'week' the same way FTK defines 'the age of the earth'.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,14:53   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Aug. 05 2008,14:12)
Personally I feel ID is better represented by this.[/quote]
Oh for Pete's sake... :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKY8KIt9kqc

"If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all."

That is some horrendous guitar given how good he was.
(Yeah, I know he's got a slide on his ring finger taking it out action.

Obviously, a strat makes it better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RECUlpVPzN4&feature=related

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,15:11   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 05 2008,12:53)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Aug. 05 2008,14:12)
Personally I feel ID is better represented by this.

Oh for Pete's sake... :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKY8KIt9kqc

"If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have no luck at all."[/quote]
That is some horrendous guitar given how good he was.
(Yeah, I know he's got a slide on his ring finger taking it out action.

Obviously, a strat makes it better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RECUlpVPzN4&feature=related

Good lord, you think Cream's version was BETTER than Albert King's???

Look, this is THE definitive version of this song.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,15:15   

Quote (Zachriel @ Aug. 05 2008,10:17)
 
Quote
Joseph: tRNA just “grabs” the corresponding amino acid. But how does a “dumb” molecule “know” how to do that?

It doesn't "know", Joseph, any more than Mars knows when to go retrograde.

Well, according to this nice little Jack Chick tract called "Big Daddy" that I found on the floor of Atlanta Hartsfield airport yesterday, Jesus actually holds all the atoms together. If he can manage that, it should be pretty easy for him to get various molecules to hook up.  Sort of like Chemistry.com.

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,15:27   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Aug. 05 2008,15:15)
Quote (Zachriel @ Aug. 05 2008,10:17)
   
Quote
Joseph: tRNA just “grabs” the corresponding amino acid. But how does a “dumb” molecule “know” how to do that?

It doesn't "know", Joseph, any more than Mars knows when to go retrograde.

Well, according to this nice little Jack Chick tract called "Big Daddy" that I found on the floor of Atlanta Hartsfield airport yesterday, Jesus actually holds all the atoms together. If he can manage that, it should be pretty easy for him to get various molecules to hook up.  Sort of like Chemistry.com.

Duh! JEBONS!



--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,15:28   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Aug. 05 2008,13:11)
Good lord, you think Cream's version was BETTER than Albert King's???

Holy.  Fucking.  Shit.

I know it's hard to get banned here, but surely this crosses the line?

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,15:29   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Aug. 05 2008,15:11)
Good lord, you think Cream's version was BETTER than Albert King's???

Look, this is THE definitive version of this song.

It's more performance rather than version. King can play - that was phoning it in. Massive Hendrix fan, but not keen on his version...

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,16:23   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 05 2008,13:29)
     
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Aug. 05 2008,15:11)
Good lord, you think Cream's version was BETTER than Albert King's???

Look, this is THE definitive version of this song.

It's more performance rather than version. King can play - that was phoning it in. Massive Hendrix fan, but not keen on his version...

I understand. In the same way, this is a much better version than this. ;)

This sort of hits a nerve because a couple years ago Eric Clapton made a snide comment in GWA about Son House and Charley Patton's playing being 'clumsy'. JFC.

Plus, ya gotta admit, Jack Bruce can't really sing. I mean, not really.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1239
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,16:24   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 05 2008,15:27)
 
Quote (carlsonjok @ Aug. 05 2008,15:15)
   
Quote (Zachriel @ Aug. 05 2008,10:17)
     
Quote
Joseph: tRNA just “grabs” the corresponding amino acid. But how does a “dumb” molecule “know” how to do that?

It doesn't "know", Joseph, any more than Mars knows when to go retrograde.

Well, according to this nice little Jack Chick tract called "Big Daddy" that I found on the floor of Atlanta Hartsfield airport yesterday, Jesus actually holds all the atoms together. If he can manage that, it should be pretty easy for him to get various molecules to hook up.  Sort of like Chemistry.com.

Duh! JEBONS!


Um, thanks to Sal Cordova, I read an account of a YEC who does exactly that!

From http://www.commonsensescience.org/scientists.html

 
Quote

Dr. Charles W. (Bill) Lucas
    Dr. Charles Lucas earned his doctorate in Intermediate Energy Physics from The College of William and Mary in Williamsburg, Virginia in 1972 and then performed post-graduate research on pions at Catholic University in Washington, DC. He has derived a universal electro-dynamic force law that describes physical phenomena on all size scales throughout the universe including what he terms "the pulse of life," on the molecular scale and a new paradigm for medicine. Using the universal force law he has refined the ring model to describe the complete set of elementary particles, their decay schemes, reactions, and excited states by introducing the classical concept of stable elementary particles being composed of primary, secondary and tertiary level three dimensional closed strings that reflect the chiral symmetry of the universal force. This classical model conserves energy, total number of charge strings, and unique angular momentum configurations of the primary strings in all decays and reactions. Bill is a frequent speaker at science conferences and has been featured in many programs by Cornerstone TV on a syndicated program titled "Origins." This past year (2007) Bill presented a three credit 45 hour seminary course on creation at the International Baptist Bible College of Ukraine in Russian based on the universal force being identified from the Bible as the Divine force. From the universal force alone Bill was able to describe many aspects of the creation, the mechanism causing Noah's flood, what happened to all the water after the flood, and what caused the division of the continents 101 years later.


--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,16:37   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Aug. 05 2008,16:23)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 05 2008,13:29)
       
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Aug. 05 2008,15:11)
Good lord, you think Cream's version was BETTER than Albert King's???

Look, this is THE definitive version of this song.

It's more performance rather than version. King can play - that was phoning it in. Massive Hendrix fan, but not keen on his version...

I understand. In the same way, this is a much better version than this. ;)

This sort of hits a nerve because a couple years ago Eric Clapton made a snide comment in GWA about Son House and Charley Patton's playing being 'clumsy'. JFC.

Plus, ya gotta admit, Jack Bruce can't really sing. I mean, not really.

Let's take it to the Muso thread, before we derail things, Chatterbox. I can *really* upset you by telling you that blues ain't all that a bit formulaic and repetitive, truth be told.

http://www.historyshots.com/rockmusic/index.cfm




Edited by stevestory on Aug. 05 2008,19:11

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2008,18:05   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 05 2008,17:37)
Let's take it to the Muso thread, before we derail things, Chatterbox.

Okay, THAT's the f&$#ing Post of the Week. I don't want people to think every post here has to be exactly about UD, but when a pleasant diversion starts growing into a full-blown discussion there's a point where people should relocate it to the appropriate thread.

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2008,07:14   

Quote
Joseph (quoting Giuseppe Sermonti): The species, in fact, is an organic entity, a typical form, which may deviate only to return to the furrow of its destiny;

Garamond: The “furrow of its destiny”? I thought we were discussing biology. I’ll leave you to your furrow.

DaveScot: The furrow quote is from an accomplished geneticist, dummy. I suggest you refrain from empty smartass retorts if you want to continue commenting here.

DaveScot, Garamond was responding to Joseph's direct question about the genetic basis for "physiological and anatomical differences". Garamond then provided a specific cite that correlated mutation with anatomical changes. Joseph did not provide a valid counterargument, but quoted the unsupported claims of a crackpot influential geneticist Giuseppe Sermonti as an authority. Your threat to ban Garamond after he had already dropped the discussion was clearly an "empty smartass retort".


Giuseppe Sermonti produced three books on the hermeneutics of fairy tales, entitled Fiabe di Tre Reami (Fairy Tales of Three Realms), arguing that they contained unexpressed principles of science: Snow White is the narrative of cupellation as well as of the phases of the moon; Red Riding Hood is the story of mercury; Cinderella is the tale of sulfur.

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2008,07:58   

from teh wiki


Quote
Since 1979, Sermonti has been Chief Editor of Rivista di Biologia/Biology Forum, one of the oldest extant biology journals in the world (founded in 1919), which, prior to Sermonti's assumption of the role of Chief Editor was considered to be respectable journal.


lol.  encyclopedia humor.  Ferdinand Schmid found interesting ways to drop such dry humor into what would otherwise (and are anyway) be sterile taxonomic treatises.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Leftfield



Posts: 107
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2008,10:20   

DaveScot has apparently ruled out the possibility of an omnipotent designer:


     
Quote
That [perfect replication] would require a perfectly replicating error checking mechanism. Therein lies the problem - the mechanism that does the error checking is itself subject to imperfect replication. If it gets corrupted then what? This is a constant problem in my line of business - information processing systems. While you can design in redundancy (an error checking mechanism that checks the error checking mechanism or guards to guard the guards) in various ways to acheive acceptable data integrity for any practical length of time, increasing entropy is in an inescapable law of nature and it will always prevail in the long run.


http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-293571

--------------
Speaking for myself, I have long been confused . . .-Denyse O'Leary

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2008,11:18   

Quote (Leftfield @ Aug. 06 2008,11:20)
DaveScot has apparently ruled out the possibility of an omnipotent designer:


     
Quote
That [perfect replication] would require a perfectly replicating error checking mechanism. Therein lies the problem - the mechanism that does the error checking is itself subject to imperfect replication. If it gets corrupted then what? This is a constant problem in my line of business - information processing systems. While you can design in redundancy (an error checking mechanism that checks the error checking mechanism or guards to guard the guards) in various ways to acheive acceptable data integrity for any practical length of time, increasing entropy is in an inescapable law of nature and it will always prevail in the long run.


http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-293571

Hey Dave -

If 3.5 billion years isn't "the long run," what is?

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2008,11:40   

Quote
If 3.5 billion years isn't "the long run," what is?


How about when our yellow sun runs low on hydrogen and expands into a red giant?

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2008,12:07   

Oooh.  UD now has a podcast.

Or rather, a recording of Dembski spouting off about his former employers.  Typically, he has no idea about how to pitch at the right level - straight away he leaps into the arcana of university administration, without explaining what the hell he's talking about.

Oh well.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2008,12:16   

bFast has had it with the YECs at UD:
Quote

This thread is frustrating. If all I knew about ID was in this thread, I would agree with those who claim that ID is just creationism (YEC) in a cheap tuxedo — that ID is not presenting the whole truth about what its position is, but lying to score a few points.

ID’s motto is to follow the evidence where it leads. The majority of posters on this thread cherrypick evidence to fit their interpretation of an open Bible. This is no way to do science, folks!


--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2008,12:31   

Quote
I just come at this from a different angle. God’s Word can be trusted as written. Everything else is held up to it never the other way around.


ALL SCIENCE SO FAR

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Jkrebs



Posts: 590
Joined: Sep. 2004

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2008,13:34   

Good for bfast.  He is right on.  I saved the page as it is so far, because it could disappear at any moment.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2008,13:35   

It's great to see JoeG back stinking the place up, with his unique brand of angry-Tard. DaveTard and him will lock horns soon, I hope.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2008,13:36   

Quote (olegt @ Aug. 06 2008,13:16)
bFast has had it with the YECs at UD:
   
Quote

This thread is frustrating. If all I knew about ID was in this thread, I would agree with those who claim that ID is just creationism (YEC) in a cheap tuxedo — that ID is not presenting the whole truth about what its position is, but lying to score a few points.

It's always a cheap tuxedo. But would it help if it were an Giorgio Armani Tux? I think not.

It's been a well-funded tuxedo, bfast. But it's still creationism in there. Give it a sniff.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2008,13:42   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Aug. 06 2008,13:36)
Quote (olegt @ Aug. 06 2008,13:16)
bFast has had it with the YECs at UD:
     
Quote

This thread is frustrating. If all I knew about ID was in this thread, I would agree with those who claim that ID is just creationism (YEC) in a cheap tuxedo — that ID is not presenting the whole truth about what its position is, but lying to score a few points.

It's always a cheap tuxedo. But would it help if it were an Giorgio Armani Tux? I think not.

It's been a well-funded tuxedo, bfast. But it's still creationism in there. Give it a sniff.

Cue some Sal in a tuxedo picture flashback thing I can't quite remember.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
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