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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Uncommonly Dense Thread 4

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midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2013,09:37    Quote and I won’t argue with you until I don’t understand something [...] Must be why IDiots argue about everything. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2013,01:48    ENCODE again. Of course they don't understand and misrepresent Gaur et al.: Quote Amongst other things the ENCODE authors are lambasted for not distinguishing between ‘Junk DNA’ and ‘Garbage DNA’. No seriously, ‘junk’ now means stuff that is functional, but not used very often, but could be used, like stuff in your attic is ‘junk’. It is different from ‘garbage’, which is the stuff that you would put straight in the bin. This is exactly not what Gaur et al say. They rather say that because junk doesn't have any function it is not selected against and thus stays in the genome (and may indeed gain some function in a very distant future) whereas garbage is actually harmful, therefore selected against and removed from the gene pool. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2013,16:10    Vjtorley has a 5,000+ word post up about a new fine tuning argument in a philosophy journal. TL;DR.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2013,16:23    Quote 11 GregoryFebruary 23, 2013 at 6:13 am __ What does that {christianity} have to do with ‘intelligent design/Intelligent Design’ theory? Nothing, right? Absolutely nothing. Literally 8 comments later, "BornAgain77" is quoting multiple books in the KJV. linky. Edited by stevestory on Feb. 23 2013,17:28

Woodbine Posts: 1218 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2013,22:35    And without a drop of self-awareness William. J. Murray comes out with....

Glen Davidson Posts: 1100 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2013,10:27    Quote (Woodbine @ Feb. 23 2013,22:35) And without a drop of self-awareness William. J. Murray comes out with.... One thing that seems to be a constant is that everybody is quite concerned about the dearth of self-awareness, intellectual honesty, and humility of others--from the most stubborn pig-ignorant dolts to those who actually are relatively open and honest about these and other matters.  It makes sense if you have "the truth" in any manner whatsoever, because if you're really certain of your truth (no matter how vague your adoption of it actually was), surely the jerks who won't acknowledge something so clearly the truth indicates something seriously wrong with them. I could go on and on about this, but I'm really commenting because William J. Murray has a particularly personal reason for not being open to science and especially atheism (not that I care more than a minuscule amount about that), which is that he's Madelyn Murray O'Hair's son, I believe the one involved in the Supreme Court case regarding school prayer.  He's had some rather intense mother issues and was estranged from his mother and brother when they were murdered.  I don't know what his history of education and all is, but clearly he's no powerhouse in science, swallowing the IDiot rhetoric whole. Yes Bill, if we did ignore actual nanotechnology in the cell, rather than recognize the evolutionary histories of a bunch of highly derivative cellular components, we would be worthy of some disapprobation.  Given that we actually know the science, as you do not, especially since you blindly follow the blind, well, it's about time you give up  your intellectual "superiority" and start improving your intellectual position.  However, personal reasons, lack of knowledge, and, it would seem, intellectual laziness, make it unlikely that you'll ever know what you're talking about. Glen Davidson -------------- http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

keiths Posts: 2195 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2013,16:25    Quote (Glen Davidson @ Feb. 24 2013,08:27) I could go on and on about this, but I'm really commenting because William J. Murray has a particularly personal reason for not being open to science and especially atheism (not that I care more than a minuscule amount about that), which is that he's Madelyn Murray O'Hair's son, I believe the one involved in the Supreme Court case regarding school prayer. Glen, You've got the wrong William J. Murray.   Your WJM is a conservative Christian who heads the Religious Freedom Coalition.  UD's WJM is more of a New Age woomeister. He's also prescient.  His book was written in 1993, but he was already preparing for his role at UD: Quote Now, in Unconditional Freedom, Murray teaches us how to manipulate reality to gain unlimited freedom. This mind-bending behemoth of a book shows how to "bring the Angels down," how to harness "The IDiot Within," how to move toward "Zenine Society." Murray devastates the crumbling institutions of government, law, school, medicine, science, religion, work; even time, space and matter! "We're going to knock down the walls and rip up the floorboards that keep us imprisoned in the hellish box of 'normal life' and consensus reality," says the author. That's something worth reading, don't you think? -------------- And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

Glen Davidson Posts: 1100 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2013,16:56    Quote (keiths @ Feb. 24 2013,16:25)   Quote (Glen Davidson @ Feb. 24 2013,08:27) I could go on and on about this, but I'm really commenting because William J. Murray has a particularly personal reason for not being open to science and especially atheism (not that I care more than a minuscule amount about that), which is that he's Madelyn Murray O'Hair's son, I believe the one involved in the Supreme Court case regarding school prayer. Glen, You've got the wrong William J. Murray.   Your WJM is a conservative Christian who heads the Religious Freedom Coalition.  UD's WJM is more of a New Age woomeister. He's also prescient.  His book was written in 1993, but he was already preparing for his role at UD:   Quote Now, in Unconditional Freedom, Murray teaches us how to manipulate reality to gain unlimited freedom. This mind-bending behemoth of a book shows how to "bring the Angels down," how to harness "The IDiot Within," how to move toward "Zenine Society." Murray devastates the crumbling institutions of government, law, school, medicine, science, religion, work; even time, space and matter! "We're going to knock down the walls and rip up the floorboards that keep us imprisoned in the hellish box of 'normal life' and consensus reality," says the author. That's something worth reading, don't you think? You're sure they're different persons? O'Hair's son sounds a lot like UD's Murray. Amazon has the same author for Unconditional Freedom and Life Without God.  I know that doesn't mean much, though. Well, if I'm wrong I apologize.  I thought someone had referred to his book "Life without God" on UD, a book by the Religious Freedom guy, but perhaps not, perhaps I just looked him up and thought it was UD's Murray. I'll take it for now that they are different persons, because I don't know for sure, and don't care all that much.  I looked a bit for a list of books by a person of that name, but other than lists by book vendors which typically put Unconditional Freedom with the one's by O'Hair's son, I didn't find anything, and won't spend much time on it. Anyway, thanks for looking into it. Glen Davidson -------------- http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

Glen Davidson Posts: 1100 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2013,17:14    It looks like Unconditional Freedom is not by O'Hair's son, so far as I can tell.   But do we know that UD's Murray actually wrote Unconditional Freedom? Well, I was curious enough after implying that I was done with the matter to do a little more looking, but I really am done for now, at least. Glen Davidson -------------- http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

Doc Bill Posts: 1039 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2013,17:41    Quote Well, if I'm wrong I apologize. Those are words you'll never see written on a creationist website. Never ever.

keiths Posts: 2195 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2013,21:56    Quote (Glen Davidson @ Feb. 24 2013,15:14) But do we know that UD's Murray actually wrote Unconditional Freedom? Yes, he confirmed it at TSZ last year: Quote BTW, I don’t know which book you ordered, but they don’t equally examine the views I express here. Anarchic Harmony is more of a 100-page anti-authority, anti-convention rant than anything else, but I’ve always been fond of Robert Anton Wilson’s introduction. Unconditional Freedom is a more in-depth explanation of my views. Please keep in mind that I wrote both of those about 20 years ago, so my views have changed and developed over that time. -------------- And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

Ptaylor Posts: 1180 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2013,14:30    Quote (Woodbine @ Feb. 24 2013,15:35) And without a drop of self-awareness William. J. Murray comes out with.... There's a rich seam of tard in that thread, with many other nuggets to be found. There is a suggestion that vjtorley should make a collection of his monster 'essays', possibly as a book (KF wants a Kindle version!). Vincent's reaction starts as something like "Aww, shucks guys, I couldn't" changing later to "Well, maybe...". I can hardly wait for the Amazon reviews. There's also a general air of satisfaction; that the argument regarding design has somehow been won. Chris Doyle:     Quote Yes, the debate continues, but not because there is any serious dispute about reason and evidence. No, those things have strongly and objectively been decided in favour of our side. The debate continues because our opponents have personal or political reasons to despise ID. They can thinly disguise those reasons with talk of science, but with every new attempt from their side to enter the fray, it becomes easier to see through the disguise. Especially amusing is KF's reaction to Doyle's  comment...     Quote The worst you get on the ID side is people substituting scriptural quotes for rational, informed debate. ...which begins:     Quote CD: Here is a too-often overlooked text:     Quote    Eccles 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: ... As they say, comedy gold. -------------- We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.” -PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

damitall Posts: 331 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2013,03:10    Whenever I see a scriptural reference to a verse from Ecclesiastes with the abbreviation "Eccles", I cannot help but think of the character from the Goon Show (a British radio comedy show from the 50's) Eccles was a very silly person with a very silly voice -highly suited for reading out "scripture"

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2013,04:18    Quote (damitall @ Feb. 27 2013,03:10) Whenever I see a scriptural reference to a verse from Ecclesiastes with the abbreviation "Eccles", I cannot help but think of the character from the Goon Show (a British radio comedy show from the 50's) Eccles was a very silly person with a very silly voice -highly suited for reading out "scripture" You've mixed up boy-scout extraordinaire Bluebottle with The Famous Eccles. Mind you, Eccles reading bits of wisdom from the Bible would still be amusing. -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

rossum Posts: 289 Joined: Dec. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2013,05:31    Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 27 2013,04:18) Quote (damitall @ Feb. 27 2013,03:10) Whenever I see a scriptural reference to a verse from Ecclesiastes with the abbreviation "Eccles", I cannot help but think of the character from the Goon Show (a British radio comedy show from the 50's) Eccles was a very silly person with a very silly voice -highly suited for reading out "scripture" You've mixed up boy-scout extraordinaire Bluebottle with The Famous Eccles. Mind you, Eccles reading bits of wisdom from the Bible would still be amusing. Both Eccles and Bluebottle are in "What time is it Eccles?" Classic stuff. -------------- The ultimate truth is that there is no ultimate truth.

Soapy Sam Posts: 659 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2013,06:32    Quote (rossum @ Feb. 27 2013,11:31)   Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 27 2013,04:18)     Quote (damitall @ Feb. 27 2013,03:10) Whenever I see a scriptural reference to a verse from Ecclesiastes with the abbreviation "Eccles", I cannot help but think of the character from the Goon Show (a British radio comedy show from the 50's) Eccles was a very silly person with a very silly voice -highly suited for reading out "scripture" You've mixed up boy-scout extraordinaire Bluebottle with The Famous Eccles. Mind you, Eccles reading bits of wisdom from the Bible would still be amusing. Both Eccles and Bluebottle are in "What time is it Eccles?" Classic stuff. You're wearing an Oxford tie! Eccles: Yes. What were you doing at Oxford? E: Buying a tie. -------------- SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2013,07:56    Bluebottle was played by Peter Sellers before he became a movie star.  He's normally portrayed as a boy scout because Sellers modeled the voice after an actual boy scout leader he once met. Eccles is played by Spike Milligan who also wrote most of the scripts.  (Writing himself into the hospital from nervous exhaustion and depression several times in the process.) Harry Secombe filled out the show as Neddy Seagoon. Google "goon show" for a wealth of information on that great series.  You can also get MP3s of about half of the shows - some from the BBC and some from off the air home recordings.  You can hear silverware clinking in the background of some of the home recordings. I'd pay a thousand dollars to hear either Eccles or Bluebottle read the Bible.  Hell, I'd convert.  I'd even become Pope if I had to.

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2013,12:02    Quote (rossum @ Feb. 27 2013,03:31) Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 27 2013,04:18)   Quote (damitall @ Feb. 27 2013,03:10) Whenever I see a scriptural reference to a verse from Ecclesiastes with the abbreviation "Eccles", I cannot help but think of the character from the Goon Show (a British radio comedy show from the 50's) Eccles was a very silly person with a very silly voice -highly suited for reading out "scripture" You've mixed up boy-scout extraordinaire Bluebottle with The Famous Eccles. Mind you, Eccles reading bits of wisdom from the Bible would still be amusing. Both Eccles and Bluebottle are in "What time is it Eccles?" Classic stuff. Now I know where Palin got that voice.   Also, it's great to see Spike's drorings animated! :-) -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2013,19:53    UD is thwarting us, or at least me, in a way. Torley's new post about that chemistry prof who is confused about macroevolution is 11,800+ words. I don't have the time or inclination to read such bloggorhea.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2013,19:55    I need tard moonshine. Or at least, tard vodka. Tard 3.2 beer doesn't get daddy where he needs to get.

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2013,20:43    Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 27 2013,20:55) I need tard moonshine. Or at least, tard vodka. Tard 3.2 beer doesn't get daddy where he needs to get. steve did you hit the tard during your hiatus from posting here? -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Ptaylor Posts: 1180 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2013,22:03    Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 28 2013,12:53) UD is thwarting us, or at least me, in a way. Torley's new post about that chemistry prof who is confused about macroevolution is 11,800+ words. I don't have the time or inclination to read such bloggorhea. Looks like Nick Matzke read it though - the arse-kicking resumes here (UD link). It begins:     Quote What I am impressed by is so much writing can have so little understanding. ... and just gets better. Edited: Man, this tinyurl thing is just not working for me. Edited by Ptaylor on Feb. 28 2013,16:23 -------------- We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.” -PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2013,23:47    Quote (Ptaylor @ Feb. 27 2013,20:03) Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 28 2013,12:53) UD is thwarting us, or at least me, in a way. Torley's new post about that chemistry prof who is confused about macroevolution is 11,800+ words. I don't have the time or inclination to read such bloggorhea. Looks like Nick Matzke read it though - the arse-kicking resumes here (UD link). It begins:     Quote What I am impressed by is so much writing can have so little understanding. ... and just gets better. Edited: Man, this tinyurl thing is just not working for me. It's unfortunate that he "lacks grace". HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Soapy Sam Posts: 659 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2013,05:47    Quote (Ptaylor @ Feb. 28 2013,04:03)   Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 28 2013,12:53) UD is thwarting us, or at least me, in a way. Torley's new post about that chemistry prof who is confused about macroevolution is 11,800+ words. I don't have the time or inclination to read such bloggorhea. Looks like Nick Matzke read it though - the arse-kicking resumes here (UD link). It begins:         Quote What I am impressed by is so much writing can have so little understanding. ... and just gets better. Edited: Man, this tinyurl thing is just not working for me. Torley:     Quote In the interests of fairness and clarity ... ... I'd like to throw up a whole pile of irrelevant and obfuscatory shit about different usages of the terms in different contexts. None of which supports the contention that macroevolution should have a chemical explanation separate to that for 'microevolution' and speciation mechanisms. But I'll just 'put it out there' anyway. In the interests of fairness and clarity. -------------- SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2013,07:39    Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 27 2013,19:53) UD is thwarting us, or at least me, in a way. Torley's new post about that chemistry prof who is confused about macroevolution is 11,800+ words. I don't have the time or inclination to read such bloggorhea. The Gish Gallop, perfected for the online text-based environment. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2013,08:52    Woo Hoo Upright Biped has found my blog here: Smilodon's Retreat Feel free to come join in the fun. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2013,10:09    Quote (Ptaylor @ Feb. 27 2013,23:03) Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 28 2013,12:53) UD is thwarting us, or at least me, in a way. Torley's new post about that chemistry prof who is confused about macroevolution is 11,800+ words. I don't have the time or inclination to read such bloggorhea. Looks like Nick Matzke read it though - the arse-kicking resumes here (UD link). It begins:     Quote What I am impressed by is so much writing can have so little understanding. ... and just gets better. Edited: Man, this tinyurl thing is just not working for me. love the ending of nick's post.

Jim_Wynne Posts: 1208 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2013,11:26    Matthew 7:6 Quote Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. -------------- Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2013,14:15    In less than 5 hours, Upright Biped has accused me of deleting his comments, accused me of avoiding his questions, flounced, and returned for 3 more posts. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

Soapy Sam Posts: 659 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2013,14:51    Quote (OgreMkV @ Feb. 28 2013,20:15) In less than 5 hours, Upright Biped has accused me of deleting his comments, accused me of avoiding his questions, flounced, and returned for 3 more posts. The even-shorter version of UB's still-windy distilled argument is "you can't have evolution without replication, you can't have replication without protein, and you can't make protein without protein". Based upon the absence of any modern forms that can do without it - the 'material observations'. You could drive a fleet of buses through the logical hole in that logical argument, but UB regularly appears on blogs to congratulate himself on its watertightness. -------------- SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

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