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  Topic: When Do Humans Begin Aging?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Chris Hyland



Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,11:45   

No

  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,12:09   

Chris,

Does this mean that in this context that science is irrelevant?

I wonder who determines when science is relevant or irrelevant in matters of law?

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,12:31   

####, And I thought this was about something serious, like the legal drinking age...

Come on thor, anybody can be president... I mean, look at the news!

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,12:36   

ok, censoring "damn" is just silly.

<whoops>

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,12:43   

Wes, as good as he is about evolution, is still a christian.

   
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,12:54   

Quote (thordaddy @ May 05 2006,17:09)
Chris,

Does this mean that in this context that science is irrelevant?

I wonder who determines when science is relevant or irrelevant in matters of law?

It's semantics, you idiot.  The law defines at as years since birth.  It is "years since birth" simply because it is defined as such.

--------------
Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,13:04   

Not just the law... It's tradition, thordaddy. You know, that thing that, if you mess with, society collapses?

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,13:28   

improvius,

I thought it was X years old and starting one's age at birth was due to scientific ignorance?

Faid,

Yes, you're right and that's why I thought the "liberal" scientists would be more than willing to change the law to bring it in accordance with reality?

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,13:35   

Thor, if you actually think about such things, you have way too much free time on your hands.

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,13:36   

Quote (thordaddy @ May 05 2006,18:28)
improvius,

I thought it was X years old and starting one's age at birth was due to scientific ignorance?

(Sigh.)  Yes, thordaddy, of course you are right.  The law stems from ancient storkist beliefs.

--------------
Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,13:48   

improvius,

So we agree that there is nothing scientific about starting the counting of aging at birth?

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,13:55   


   
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,14:03   

LOL!!

See, I think all your "liberal" posturing is just for show.  No "liberal" I know has a sense of humor like that!

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,14:07   

looks at card in wallet
Quote
ACLU
American Civil Liberties Union
Mr. Steve Story
Member Since: 2002               52506946
Nadine Strossen                 J (something)
President                           Executive Director
Yep. I'm a liberal.

   
PuckSR



Posts: 314
Joined: Nov. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,14:22   

Quote
So we agree that there is nothing scientific about starting the counting of aging at birth?


There also isnt anything scientific about the age requirements for US reps, Senators, and the President....

Science is applicable when the law is scientific.....
Otherwise it is completely arbitrary...
It isnt even based on the bible or the 10 commandments....

  
Flint



Posts: 478
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,15:05   

Quote
Science is applicable when the law is scientific.....
Otherwise it is completely arbitrary...

Sheesh! So we have a binomial distribution: things are either scientific or they are completely arbitrary. We have no other choices. Right?

Age requirements are empirical and heuristic. We step back, sight over our thumb, kind of get the gist of the issue, and do something workable. It's not *completely* arbitrary, it just has a lot of degrees of freedom.

When someone is deemed a "person" is determined using basically the same methods. We know by trial and error that (1) the starting date must be well defined (within a day), not guessed at; (2) That the legal and practical ramifications must be socially affordable. If infant mortality within the first month is over 50%, it's practical to start counting a month after birth, once the "crisis period" has passed; otherwise it's too expensive.

So while there is a good deal of flexibility in what is workable and practical, that doesn't mean "arbitrary" by any stretch. We know someone 10 years old can't operate a vehicle responsibly. We know that by the time someone is 30, they've long since been capable. So the age of "responsible enough" lies somewhere between 10 and 30. Not arbitrary, so we're talking about degrees of constraint.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,15:25   

do you mean binary instead of binomial?

   
Flint



Posts: 478
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,16:03   

probably

  
PuckSR



Posts: 314
Joined: Nov. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,19:39   

wow...that was a huge rip on arbitrary...
Maybe i used the wrong word...but i was using it in comparison to scientific....

The definition and intpretation of most laws is at least *somewhat* subjective.....
Im not saying that most laws are just pulled out of a hat...but that the rationale behind most laws....not scientific...

Sorry if using the word arbitrary pissed you off....I didnt mean to...
If i get a chance...I will find a better word...but in the meantime...calm down

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 07 2006,06:11   

most older societies condidered you to be "born" after you could walk on your own. That was why infantacide was legal and practiced in all preindustrial societies. It hinged on the highly influencial Uggh v. Mbong where the judge in his opinion stated Aaaahhhhh!!!! and threw his club at Mbong.

Thordaddy, give it up. Either it's a legal issue or it's a moral issue. If gay marriage, abortion, drug use, free market capitalism (ala milton friedman), the use of military force et.al. are the right way or the moral way, then why are you doing this? Why not just say, GOD, GUNS and GUTS made this country strong and I will follow blindly, right or wrong?

These aren't good legal arguments. They aren't good moral arguments. In fact they aren't good rational arguments. You need to answer the question "why does it matter?" before you ask questions.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 07 2006,06:15   

Quote
It hinged on the highly influencial Uggh v. Mbong where the judge in his opinion stated Aaaahhhhh!!!! and threw his club at Mbong.
LOL that reminds me of the great fedex commercial.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8181801990250175607

apologies for that being google video, the worst video player ever made, by anyone ever, including RealPlayer.

   
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 07 2006,06:18   

OMG that might be the funniest commercial I've ever seen. I should watch more tv.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
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