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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > The "I Believe In God" Thread

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Doc Bill Posts: 1039 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,08:29    Quote Whatever. He stands as a testimonial that there are people out there who are so calcified in their thinking that no evidence, no argument, no data, no documentation, not even written proof of their own illogic and hypocrisy, will convince them that they are wrong. And, thus, you describe FL, FTK, Behe, Dembski, Wells, Nelson, Meyer and so on. Behe had to be taken to the mat publicly by grad student (never mess with her!) Abbie Smith before he would admit he "overlooked" data on Vpu in his book Edge of Whatever. At least Kevin XI admitted he lied about Sternberg getting fired by the Smithsonian when he didn't even work for the Smithsonian. Rather than engage in discussion, creationists run away, The Flounce, when backed into a corner.  How many times have we seen that around here, a thousand?  That's why it's so maddening.  These are not reasonable people.

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,13:28    Quote Rather than engage in discussion, creationists run away, The Flounce, when backed into a corner.  How many times have we seen that around here, a thousand?  That's why it's so maddening.  These are not reasonable people. Alas, yes.  When we defeat them in detail, they move the goalposts.  When we defeat them on the merits, they dodge the issue.  And when we finally throw up our hands in exasperation, they claim that we cannot answer their poorly formed and incoherent objections... Our special friend, the topic of this thread, has often brought to mind a painting I saw in Beijing.  It showed Confucius and a goose looking at each other--the philosopher had a weary expression of disdain on his face, and the bird looked as puzzled as any other goose.  Our guide explained that this was an illustration for a maxim that may be freely translated as 'not every student can be taught'. The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,13:57    Is he still babbling on at PT... even in his 'new guise'? -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,14:07    He's not posting at the moment.  Confirmation or refutation may have to wait a few hours. Although I can think of another reason why he might not be coming here!  The rules of this board do rule out some of his favorite tricks. The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,14:18    Like he's interested in following 'rules'... -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,14:21    Almost certainly the truth.   One wonders what he'll attempt next. The MadPanda, FCD

Henry J Posts: 5787 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,16:02    Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to move the goalposts we go...

prong_hunter Posts: 45 Joined: May 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,18:34    Matt Young answered on PT, when asked, "Do you have the ability to see if Flipper is another incarnation of IBelieveInGod?" "Different e-mail address, different IP address, for whatever that is worth." Thanks Matt.

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,18:44    Quote (prong_hunter @ Nov. 03 2010,18:34) Matt Young answered on PT, when asked, "Do you have the ability to see if Flipper is another incarnation of IBelieveInGod?" "Different e-mail address, different IP address, for whatever that is worth." Thanks Matt. Be that as it may, the tone and general attitude appear to be quite similar, so we could expect a similar pleasant experience trying to deal with this individual. We'll need to run more tests.  Igor!  Fetch me my lightning-proof suit and warm up The Machine! :p The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,18:49    Keep trying to redirect here. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,19:06    Quote (OgreMkV @ Nov. 03 2010,18:49) Keep trying to redirect here. Done!  Although I see you beat me to it.   I would like to think I was sufficiently polite about it... The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,19:09    Quote (MadPanda, FCD @ Nov. 03 2010,19:06) Quote (OgreMkV @ Nov. 03 2010,18:49) Keep trying to redirect here. Done!  Although I see you beat me to it.  ??? I would like to think I was sufficiently polite about it... The MadPanda, FCD It's a question of "will s/he be polite enough to come here" or will they continue to flood the PT Wall even after multiple requests to move the discussion elsewhere. Time will tell. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,19:25    Alas, yes. And now I have an old childhood memory stuck in my mind's eye: Les Lye, from You Can't Do That On Television, clutching his head and asking "where does the school board find them, and why do they send them here" in response to the kids' antics. At the time, I thought that was pretty funny.  But then, at that time, all the jokes in Zorro the Gay Blade went whirring cheerfully way over my head. The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

mplavcan Posts: 6 Joined: Oct. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,19:34    Quote (prong_hunter @ Nov. 03 2010,06:12) I think IBIG may have resurfaced, with an alternate personality, named 'faith4flippers' on PT under the thread with the photo of the pelican. He's goading Stanton, and making references to DS's dolphin arguments.  Anyone know how to contact them? IBIG's not one to declare victory as he has, and fade quietly into the night. This one does not sound like IBIG. But who knows?

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,19:43    Quote (MadPanda, FCD @ Nov. 03 2010,19:25) Alas, yes. And now I have an old childhood memory stuck in my mind's eye: Les Lye, from You Can't Do That On Television, clutching his head and asking "where does the school board find them, and why do they send them here" in response to the kids' antics. At the time, I thought that was pretty funny.  But then, at that time, all the jokes in Zorro the Gay Blade went whirring cheerfully way over my head. The MadPanda, FCD I had the biggest crush on Moose. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,19:58    You, too?   :D The ep where poor Moose got stuck behind nothing but a cue card at the very end because they'd bottomed out the wardrobe budget was particularly interesting. The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,20:32    Quote (MadPanda, FCD @ Nov. 03 2010,19:58) You, too?   :D The ep where poor Moose got stuck behind nothing but a cue card at the very end because they'd bottomed out the wardrobe budget was particularly interesting. The MadPanda, FCD Sorry for the derail... heh You Can't Do That on TeleVision -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

mplavcan Posts: 6 Joined: Oct. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2010,21:05    Quote (MadPanda @ FCD,Nov. 03 2010,13:28) Our special friend, the topic of this thread, has often brought to mind a painting I saw in Beijing.  It showed Confucius and a goose looking at each other--the philosopher had a weary expression of disdain on his face, and the bird looked as puzzled as any other goose.  Our guide explained that this was an illustration for a maxim that may be freely translated as 'not every student can be taught'. The MadPanda, FCD I have a colleague who worked in China and once showed a slide in a talk. It was a picture of a young woman kneeling and holding up a large silver platter behind a bull. Manure (BS) was streaming from the bull onto the platter. Pretty much sums up the average creationist.

IBelieveInGod Posts: 68 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2010,17:16    Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2010,17:18    Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Nov. 04 2010,17:16) Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” OK, IBIG, was the discovery article telling the truth about what E. Pennisi said? Please explain why my quote-mine of the Bible is wrong, while the discovery article quote-mine is OK. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2010,17:37    Biggy finally found us.  Ogre, I owe you twenty spacebucks for lunch, gas, and tolls. Quoting scripture apropos of nothing does not a valid point make, nor does it render an argument solid on the merits.  Quite the opposite. Get back to us after you've read and understood at least two of the Gnostic Gospels and either the Analects of Confucius or the Tao Te Ching.  Then we'll talk. The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

IBelieveInGod Posts: 68 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2010,17:42    Quote (OgreMkV @ Nov. 04 2010,17:18) Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Nov. 04 2010,17:16) Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” OK, IBIG, was the discovery article telling the truth about what E. Pennisi said? Please explain why my quote-mine of the Bible is wrong, while the discovery article quote-mine is OK. Has E. Pennisi ever stated that it was a quote-mine by Discovery.org? Clearly she could defend herself right? I've already stated that it wasn't a quote-mine, clearly Discovery.org was arguing about the universality of these genes, and how it invalidated the grand claims for them. I don't see any quote-mine or dishonesty on the part of Discovery.org, but like I said earlier what does it matter to someone who doesn't believe in moral absolutes like yourself? You are arguing like you believe in moral absolutes, yet you claim that there are no such absolutes, you can't have it both ways:)

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2010,17:45    Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Nov. 04 2010,17:42) Quote (OgreMkV @ Nov. 04 2010,17:18) Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Nov. 04 2010,17:16) Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” OK, IBIG, was the discovery article telling the truth about what E. Pennisi said? Please explain why my quote-mine of the Bible is wrong, while the discovery article quote-mine is OK. Has E. Pennisi ever stated that it was a quote-mine by Discovery.org? Clearly she could defend herself right? I've already stated that it wasn't a quote-mine, clearly Discovery.org was arguing about the universality of these genes, and how it invalidated the grand claims for them. I don't see any quote-mine or dishonesty on the part of Discovery.org, but like I said earlier what does it matter to someone who doesn't believe in moral absolutes like yourself? You are arguing like you believe in moral absolutes, yet you claim that there are no such absolutes, you can't have it both ways:) The morality or lack thereof doesn't matter. Either discovery is lying or they are not.  Which is it? I have shown, upwards of 5 times, that the discovery article leads the reader to a false conclusion.  That is lying. Why is that different from my bible quote, "There is no God" Psalms (something or other)? Right now, I don't care about morality (except yours), what we need to know is why is one quote-mine OK and one it not OK? -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2010,17:47    Their culpability in this matter has already been established, if you were honestly paying attention.  Why do you continue making bald excuses for dishonest scholarship? Your question about absolutes has also been answered, repeatedly and at length, by people who understand the entire matter far better than you do.  There is a fundamental (hah! error in your reasoning, which has also been pointed out to you.  (There is an even deeper problem with your question, but you are left to puzzle that out for yourself, if you are capable of doing so.) Are you incapable of paying attention, or does your paycheck depend on your not acknowledging the facts in these matters? The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

IBelieveInGod Posts: 68 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2010,17:49    Quote (OgreMkV @ Nov. 04 2010,17:45) Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Nov. 04 2010,17:42) Quote (OgreMkV @ Nov. 04 2010,17:18)   Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Nov. 04 2010,17:16) Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” OK, IBIG, was the discovery article telling the truth about what E. Pennisi said? Please explain why my quote-mine of the Bible is wrong, while the discovery article quote-mine is OK. Has E. Pennisi ever stated that it was a quote-mine by Discovery.org? Clearly she could defend herself right? I've already stated that it wasn't a quote-mine, clearly Discovery.org was arguing about the universality of these genes, and how it invalidated the grand claims for them. I don't see any quote-mine or dishonesty on the part of Discovery.org, but like I said earlier what does it matter to someone who doesn't believe in moral absolutes like yourself? You are arguing like you believe in moral absolutes, yet you claim that there are no such absolutes, you can't have it both ways:) The morality or lack thereof doesn't matter. Either discovery is lying or they are not.  Which is it? I have shown, upwards of 5 times, that the discovery article leads the reader to a false conclusion.  That is lying. Why is that different from my bible quote, "There is no God" Psalms (something or other)? Right now, I don't care about morality (except yours), what we need to know is why is one quote-mine OK and one it not OK? It does not lead to a false conclusion. It is your claim that it leads to a false conclusion. Why do you think it leads to a false conclusion, give specifics?

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2010,17:55    Quote It does not lead to a false conclusion. It is your claim that it leads to a false conclusion. Why do you think it leads to a false conclusion, give specifics? Already been done.  Repeatedly.  But you weren't paying attention the first five times. Why do you ask such silly questions if you aren't going to hold still for the answers? The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

IBelieveInGod Posts: 68 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2010,17:58    Quote (MadPanda, FCD @ Nov. 04 2010,17:47) Their culpability in this matter has already been established, if you were honestly paying attention.  Why do you continue making bald excuses for dishonest scholarship? Your question about absolutes has also been answered, repeatedly and at length, by people who understand the entire matter far better than you do.  There is a fundamental (hah!) error in your reasoning, which has also been pointed out to you.  (There is an even deeper problem with your question, but you are left to puzzle that out for yourself, if you are capable of doing so.) Are you incapable of paying attention, or does your paycheck depend on your not acknowledging the facts in these matters? The MadPanda, FCD Blah Blah Blah....everybody understands everything better then me...I've already heard that many times on PT:) You are the ones that are arguing as though there are absolutes, yet you don't even accept that such absolutes even exist:) Sorry, but it is irrational for you to argue anything, because if absolutes don't exist, then nothing could be said to be right, and nothing could be said to be wrong.

IBelieveInGod Posts: 68 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2010,18:02    Quote (OgreMkV @ Nov. 04 2010,17:45) Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Nov. 04 2010,17:42) Quote (OgreMkV @ Nov. 04 2010,17:18)   Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Nov. 04 2010,17:16) Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” OK, IBIG, was the discovery article telling the truth about what E. Pennisi said? Please explain why my quote-mine of the Bible is wrong, while the discovery article quote-mine is OK. Has E. Pennisi ever stated that it was a quote-mine by Discovery.org? Clearly she could defend herself right? I've already stated that it wasn't a quote-mine, clearly Discovery.org was arguing about the universality of these genes, and how it invalidated the grand claims for them. I don't see any quote-mine or dishonesty on the part of Discovery.org, but like I said earlier what does it matter to someone who doesn't believe in moral absolutes like yourself? You are arguing like you believe in moral absolutes, yet you claim that there are no such absolutes, you can't have it both ways:) The morality or lack thereof doesn't matter. Either discovery is lying or they are not.  Which is it? I have shown, upwards of 5 times, that the discovery article leads the reader to a false conclusion.  That is lying. Why is that different from my bible quote, "There is no God" Psalms (something or other)? Right now, I don't care about morality (except yours), what we need to know is why is one quote-mine OK and one it not OK? How could someone lie if there is no absolute right or wrong, or true or false? Lying is to knowingly state something that is wrong or false. If there are no absolute right or wrong, or true or false, then how would lying even be possible?

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2010,18:05    Quote (IBelieveInGod @ Nov. 04 2010,17:58) Quote (MadPanda @ FCD,Nov. 04 2010,17:47) Their culpability in this matter has already been established, if you were honestly paying attention.  Why do you continue making bald excuses for dishonest scholarship? Your question about absolutes has also been answered, repeatedly and at length, by people who understand the entire matter far better than you do.  There is a fundamental (hah!) error in your reasoning, which has also been pointed out to you.  (There is an even deeper problem with your question, but you are left to puzzle that out for yourself, if you are capable of doing so.) Are you incapable of paying attention, or does your paycheck depend on your not acknowledging the facts in these matters? The MadPanda, FCD Blah Blah Blah....everybody understands everything better then me...I've already heard that many times on PT:) You are the ones that are arguing as though there are absolutes, yet you don't even accept that such absolutes even exist:) Sorry, but it is irrational for you to argue anything, because if absolutes don't exist, then nothing could be said to be right, and nothing could be said to be wrong. Quote everybody understands everything better then me...I've already heard that many times on PT And you'd better be prepared to hear it many, many times here as well, unless you present plenty of evidence that you actually do pay attention to and understand the answers you get. Have you put your brain to work on the flaw in your question about absolutes, yet?  Or gotten ahold of anything by Kant?  You have some remedial reading ahead of you if you want to be taken seriously. The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2010,18:06    Accursed quote failure!  This system shall take some time to become second nature... The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

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