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deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2006,13:35    Ack, I hadn't been reading this thread for a couple of days. Yay, John Davison!! I knew you could do it! Gah, and I despise that stupid "alien" scenario from Dumbass BarryA. Humans are wiped out. 500 years pass. Aliens see mount rushmore and conclude intelligent beings made it. Can you accuse them of supernaturalism? No. Then IDiots  make the leap to : a complexly carved bit of rock (with unquantified "CSI") = intelligent "designer. " SO, complex DNA(with unquantified "CSI") = intelligent "designer" ******************************************* The complex bit of rock shows tool marks, deliberate workings,  a relation to a known species that left bones, concrete structures, images of humans all over in stone, metal, etc.  There are metal tools, evidence of having altered the face of the planet itself, and visited the moon. DNA shows what no such supporting evidence at all. No "tool marks,"  no evidence of  the "creator" species,  no **demonstrably** constructed "unnatural" items at all available for congruent data. It's interesting that if you were to say that no aliens have ever been shown to exist, they'd accuse you of a fallacy, saying "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." BUT...they cannot *eliminate* the possibility of DNA arising naturally and yet would choose to say "so the best choice is a designer" --- ignoring the fact that the absence of a detailed pathway for DNA is not evidence it *cannot* occur naturally. argumentum ad ignorantiam ad Uncommonly Dense It's simply a stupid f&#%*@g analogy. Yet those saps suck it up. Of course, you guys said all this already, I just wanted to say it MYYYYY WAYYYYY. I need to drink more when I read their crap. By the way, k.e., nice Pinafore parody. Mmm...Vodka. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2006,13:39    so, it seems that the general agreement is that alcohol is required to deaden the nerves before one can successfully navigate a complete thread on UD? would that be the consesus opinion? -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2006,13:47    A liberal dose of ethanol stuns enough neurons to allow me to read the tripe there without wanting to sever my frontal lobes with a sharpened crochet hook. I agree! -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

argystokes Posts: 766 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2006,14:59    Quote (Ichthyic @ Aug. 31 2006,16:39) so, it seems that the general agreement is that alcohol is required to deaden the nerves before one can successfully navigate a complete thread on UD? would that be the consesus opinion? No.  I have no faith in the reasonableness of humanity, so stupidity usually serves to amuse.  But don't let me dissuade you from imbibing. -------------- "Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -Calvin

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2006,15:57    Quote (Ichthyic @ Aug. 31 2006,16:33) Quote Tardfight! i tried to read that thread, and was quickly beginning to feel stupider by the second. Is there some pill you guys take to keep you from losing brain cells when you read such tripe? I simply get physically ill and have to look away; like trying to read in a moving car. "It's like staring directly at the sun, if the sun were made of stupid." -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

improvius Posts: 807 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2006,16:39    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Aug. 31 2006,21:57) Quote (Ichthyic @ Aug. 31 2006,16:33)   Quote Tardfight! i tried to read that thread, and was quickly beginning to feel stupider by the second. Is there some pill you guys take to keep you from losing brain cells when you read such tripe? I simply get physically ill and have to look away; like trying to read in a moving car. "It's like staring directly at the sun, if the sun were made of stupid." Holy crap, I dove in just for one day and already the stupid is simply unbearable over there.  I think "Jerry" wins today's award for the most mind-bogglingly absurd post. His first post in the thread: Quote If the public schools are teaching a doctrine that is essential for one religion (atheism) but antithetical to another (those with creationist beliefs) should that doctrine be taught. Especially if the doctrine has no basis in science. Comment by jerry — August 30, 2006 @ 5:30 pm His LAST post in the thread (as of the right now, emphasis mine): Quote I never mention religion, you mention it at every turn. I find it amazing. You seemed obsessed with having the other side invoke religion. Are you reading a script” “That shalt say religion” You are welcome to your time traveller or alien if you insist. So in our corner of the multiverse we had a time traveller or alien create life. OK. As one famous time traveller said “Hasta la vista, baby.” Comment by jerry — August 31, 2006 @ 8:30 pm I... I just don't know what to say anymore. -------------- Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37) Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late. Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2006,17:53    Quote "It's like staring directly at the sun, if the sun were made of stupid." "Ahhh, the stupid!  It burns!" -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

keiths Posts: 2195 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2006,19:03    Quote (Ichthyic @ Aug. 31 2006,18:39) so, it seems that the general agreement is that alcohol is required to deaden the nerves before one can successfully navigate a complete thread on UD? would that be the consesus opinion? I like my tard straight up.  Like argy says, the key is having no faith in the reasonableness of humanity.  If you think that people should be intelligent, observant, and reasonable, then facing UD sans alcohol is distressing and depressing.  If, on the other hand, you have a healthy, cynical attitude about humans, then you can simply savor the tard as one more fascinating freak of nature, like a two-headed kitten or a rain of frogs. The other nice thing about UD is that it makes you appreciate the non-tards in your life.  For example, I work at a small company with thirteen smart, friendly, and reasonable people.  We've been careful to hire non-tards and the effort has really paid off.  We enjoy working together, everyone carries his weight, and a lot gets done.  I shudder to think of the damage an employee like DaveTard could do to a company like ours. -------------- And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

keiths Posts: 2195 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2006,22:09    Quote David Heddle wrote: “Since there was a time when there was no life, and there is now life, abiogenesis happened.” How do you know there was a time when there was no life in the universe? That sounds like a baseless assumption to me but feel to lay out your evidence. Without exception we have never observed life coming from non-life. Biogenesis has been observed billions of of times. Therefore it requires extraordinary evidence to claim that the rule of biogenesis can be broken. Comment by DaveScot — September 1, 2006 @ 1:21 am Does TardBoy really think that life existed before atoms formed, 300,000 years after the Big Bang?  And that this doesn't require extraordinary evidence?  Or is he also a Big Bang skeptic?  Wouldn't surprise me. I'm skeptical of your continued presence on this blog, homo. Nature doesn't have the guts to violate my law of biogenesis.  I'm 5'10', 220#, dumb as an ox, and carry concealed. --dt -------------- And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

lkeithlu Posts: 321 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,00:24    I can't judge the content of UD when it covers mathematics, engineering, or philosophy, but what they know about secondary science education couldn't fill a thimble. I got so disgusted I gave up. Maybe a bottle of single-malt scotch by my side would have given me the strength to proceed....

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,00:39    Quote (improvius @ Aug. 31 2006,21:39) I... I just don't know what to say anymore. At least they let your comments see the light of day.  I signed up and submitted my first comment at about 8 PM last night:   Quote Jerry says:"As hard as you insist there is no religious implication in ID other than there was someone who did it. Who, what the person did or, how they did it or why are not the province of ID. Is that hard to understand?" Well, yes it is.  I am struggling to get my arms around ID here and am not succeeding.  As near as I can tell in the short time here, ID seeks to detect design through something called Complex Specified Information. People can apparently assign values of "No CSI. Duh!" and "Alot of CSI. Duh!" by visual inspection, but don't seem to stray away from the extremes and actually calculate CSI on anything that is less than already obvious.  That is, I suppose, a start, but until you get away from the extremes I am struggling to see the explanatory potential. Now you say that you don't seek to know who the designer is, what processes he used, or what his motivation was.  Okay, fine.  But, if you don't seek the designer or to understand his method or motive, and don't apply CSI in a rigorous way to discover his handiwork, I don't see any paths to new knowledge here. Never saw the light of day. -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

guthrie Posts: 696 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,02:28    Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 31 2006,17:48) Quote (Ichthyic @ Aug. 31 2006,17:33) Is there some pill you guys take to keep you from losing brain cells when you read such tripe? I recommend lots of vodka and rum. Get the ol neurons all tipsy and loosey-goosey, and then when the tard memes zoom past my eyeballs and kick the neurons right in the dendrites, they absorb the shock and bounce back. I'd love to join in the mockery, but right now I have too much real life stuff going on, so UD just makes me wish I was some kind of "nuke em all" kind of guy, with some nukes.   Needless to say, I dont like feeling like this, so i dont go there.  But this thread at least gives an idea of what is going on, so I can digest it in small lumps.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,03:28    Genetic Algorithms for Uncommonly Dense Software Engineers

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,03:34    Quote (carlsonjok @ Sep. 01 2006,05:39) Quote (improvius @ Aug. 31 2006,21:39) I... I just don't know what to say anymore. At least they let your comments see the light of day.  I signed up and submitted my first comment at about 8 PM last night:   Quote Jerry says:"As hard as you insist there is no religious implication in ID other than there was someone who did it. Who, what the person did or, how they did it or why are not the province of ID. Is that hard to understand?" Well, yes it is.  I am struggling to get my arms around ID here and am not succeeding.  As near as I can tell in the short time here, ID seeks to detect design through something called Complex Specified Information. People can apparently assign values of "No CSI. Duh!" and "Alot of CSI. Duh!" by visual inspection, but don't seem to stray away from the extremes and actually calculate CSI on anything that is less than already obvious.  That is, I suppose, a start, but until you get away from the extremes I am struggling to see the explanatory potential. Now you say that you don't seek to know who the designer is, what processes he used, or what his motivation was.  Okay, fine.  But, if you don't seek the designer or to understand his method or motive, and don't apply CSI in a rigorous way to discover his handiwork, I don't see any paths to new knowledge here. Never saw the light of day. It seems to be there now. http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1530#comment-57817

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,03:40    Quote (GCT @ Sep. 01 2006,08:34)   Quote (carlsonjok @ Sep. 01 2006,05:39) Never saw the light of day. It seems to be there now. And here I'm going away for the long weekend and won't be able to follow the conversation!  Oh, well. Dumb question:  with moderation, do comments get posted in the order they are submitted,or the order that they are approved? -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,03:47    Quote (deadman_932 @ Aug. 31 2006,18:35) By the way, k.e., nice Pinafore parody. Mmm...Vodka. Agreed.  Although, I thought it came from Penzance?

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,04:40    Quote (carlsonjok @ Sep. 01 2006,08:40) Dumb question:  with moderation, do comments get posted in the order they are submitted,or the order that they are approved? I believe they post them by the date/time they are submitted.  So, if you have a post that languishes in the moderation queue for a couple hours and some others post after you that aren't moderated, your post will appear before their's on the screen when your post is finally approved.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,04:59    http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1535 Dumbski says:   Quote ...A. N. Wilson, the epitomy of English snootiness, recently fell for an elaborate prank that he could have avoided if he had drawn a design inference Emphasis mine. Hang on Bill, has anyone ever used the design inference? Can you point me to the examples with workings? Thanks. If it wont work for the inventor what chance do we have? -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

improvius Posts: 807 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,05:15    I hardly think WAD is the kind of person who should criticize others for falling for pranks. -------------- Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37) Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late. Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,05:17    Quote (improvius @ Aug. 31 2006,21:39) Holy crap, I dove in just for one day and already the stupid is simply unbearable over there.  I think "Jerry" wins today's award for the most mind-bogglingly absurd post. Jerry is on fire lately. http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1534#comment-57883 Quote 39.  Great_Ape, I had more respect for you till you asked your silly question. The origin of the designer is off the table in the debate. You know as well as I the game that is being played. If you get an ID proponent to admit that somewhere in the distant past the designer had to be either God or designed by God then you and others can huff and puff and yell and scream “There I told you so, ID is nothing more than creationism or some other religious doctrine” and then you can use this admission and the court system to banish any hint of it in the education system. We all know that this debate revolves around what the courts will say. Right now one side has the upper hand and is fighting desperately to keep their advantage while the other side is throwing embarrassing information at them. If it weren’t embarrassing then the tone would be much different. The abiogenisis question is the most emabarrassing one but there are many others. So ID cannot mention anything about the designer. In truth they are only developing a discipline that tries to detect design and keep it to that. And this is by design. They do not say “who, why, what and how” the design took place. Only that design events did happen. But why can’t people limit themselves to that discussion. Because they know if the average person thinks about it they may make some different judgments then are currently being made. So those who support ID get the incredibly persistent and often obnoxious insistence that ID is religious based. Comment by jerry — September 1, 2006 @ 8:54 am Jerry is trying to usurp Mentok as the stupidest poster.  It truly is a race for the bottom isn't it?

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,05:20    GCT: Quote Agreed.  Although, I thought it came from Penzance? You're absolutely right. I blame it on the vodka and temporary aphasia brought on by reading UD. *THIS* is why UD should only be taken in small amounts. It also causes constipation, explaining why UD is so full of...well, you get the idea. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,05:53    Quote (improvius @ Sep. 01 2006,10:15) I hardly think WAD is the kind of person who should criticize others for falling for pranks. Falling for pranks or even promoting them.  Let's not forget Dimbski's affection for the Bible Code nonsense.   Imagine that, the Isaac Newton of Information Theory falls for the Bible Code.  How fitting for a leading "ID Theorist".  I think Tina Brewer asked him on UD if he still thought the Bible Code was for real.  He never responded to her. I wonder, did Dimbski use his little filter thingy prior to embracing the Bible Code? -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

improvius Posts: 807 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,06:07    I was thinking of that thing about the ACLU suing the military to stop prayers. -------------- Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37) Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late. Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,06:36    Quote (improvius @ Sep. 01 2006,11:07) I was thinking of that thing about the ACLU suing the military to stop prayers. Wasn't it DaveTard who fell for that one? The whole 'ACLU persecutes virtuous praying Marines' angle was WAY too much for him to resist. The funny thing about that one was how after he admitted it was an urban legend, he essentially said "it doesn't matter, it might as well be true". Good times.   -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

argystokes Posts: 766 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,06:52    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 01 2006,09:36) Quote (improvius @ Sep. 01 2006,11:07) I was thinking of that thing about the ACLU suing the military to stop prayers. Wasn't it DaveTard who fell for that one? The whole 'ACLU persecutes virtuous praying Marines' angle was WAY too much for him to resist. The funny thing about that one was how after he admitted it was an urban legend, he essentially said "it doesn't matter, it might as well be true". Good times.   Ah, but don't forget: "Right on!" -------------- "Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -Calvin

C.J.O'Brien Posts: 395 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,07:42    Whoa, whoa! Hold up everyone. Quote Assume that a Stephen King super virus wipes out all human life next year. Did Barry just advocate the destruction of humanity? Somebody, quick, call Forrest Mims at the batcave, and I'll get Homeland Security on the hotline. Church burnin' Ebola boys to the rescue!!! -------------- The is the beauty of being me- anything that any man does I can understand. --Joe G

dhogaza Posts: 525 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,08:38    PaV starts a new thread ... Quote the more I read and keep up with experimental evidence, the more I question the existence of Natural Selection. These boys don't get out in the real world much, do they? Here's the thread...

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,08:44    http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1535 ooh, oooh, someone gets duped by a code. Quote Jeffrey Satinover’s Cracking the Bible Code is the place to begin for anyone interested in the subject. It is engagingly written, well-informed, and generally sober. In particular, it avoids the statistical fallacies too commonly associated with coverage of the Bible Code. Even so, it is an uneven text. It is superb in describing the history leading up to today’s investigations. Indeed, the window it provides on Jewish intellectual life from the Middle Ages through the present is itself worth the price of the book. It is also very good at making intelligible the mathematics needed for deciding whether the Code is genuine. On the other hand, its speculative portions about the significance of the Bible Code are often diffuse and controversial. The best known example of the Bible Code, and one Satinover treats in detail, is the Great Sages experiment. Several Israeli mathematicians took thirty or so prominent rabbis from the Encyclopedia of Great Men of Israel, and looked among the equidistant letter sequences of Genesis for a juxtaposition of rabbi names with their dates of birth or death. They found some. On calculating the improbability of so close a match between names and corresponding dates, the mathematicians concluded that the match couldn’t have happened by chance (the probability was less than 1 in 60,000). The journal Statistical Science tacitly agreed. After an arduous review, its editors finally decided to publish the results of this experiment. Suddenly the Bible Code had a measure of academic respectability. http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9808/reviews/dembski.html Twat. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,08:47    Quote The article points out that the degree of ‘inversion’ found in these strains is proportional to the average temperature. Well, then, how can this possible be “random mutation”. In fact, the correlation is so strong, that they use the change in the amount of inversion to make a statement about global warming. So, we now have to strike from the Darwinist formula, RM+NS, the RM part. That leaves NS. Yet there is, according to the authors, a direct connection between an environmental stimulus, average temperature, and the amount of inversion. So the question has to be asked: Is NS ’selecting’ for these inversions, or are the inversions directly linked to the environment and completely independent of NS? It strikes me that the latter half of the question fits better with the data they’ve accumulated. That means we’re dealing with neither RM nor NS, but are simply seeing nature adapt in an almost pre-programmed way; hence, Natural Adaptation. What think ye? Filed under: Intelligent Design — PaV @ 1:14 pm We think ye a tard! Seriously, read that stuff about 'random'. Geez Louise.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2006,08:51    Based on the written component of my driving test, MY IQ is 187. Plus, girls, boys and sheep all find me *very* attractive. I'm just mentioning this because ,erm, I'm a millionaire. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

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