Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::Uncommonly Dense Thread 2

Posted: Jan. 14 2009,14:09

Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 14 2009,12:57)

Quote (cogzoid @ Jan. 14 2009,12:45)

Joseph is a tard under the hood as well.

Quote

I once put platinum spark plugs in my Grand National because I figured they would allow it to run better. Wrong! The spark reached its destination too soon throwing off the timing!

As a physicist and backyard mechanic, I know that there is no way that the few millimeters of platinum at the tip of the spark plug could possibly speed up the spark. This guy is a complete moron. There may be other reasons why the spark plugs didn't work, but the platinum was not it.

Zapped by the god of the gaps.

I LOLed. This is why I read this discussion board, and the UD thread is my favorite!

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"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world." PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

Henry J

Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

Posted: Jan. 14 2009,14:21

Algorithmically? That means set up a mechanism, let it run unsupervised, then use whatever it produced without correcting any mistakes.

(Wait, isn't that another way of saying "theistic evolution"?)

Henry

Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

Posted: Jan. 14 2009,14:30

Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 12 2009,07:33)

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Jan. 11 2009,21:33)

Gil Dodg'em:

Quote

I’ve been called every name in the book, the most common being IDiot.

Click here for just one such example of the vitriol to which I’ve been subjected. I could give you hundreds of more examples.

Gil - we can create more instances if that would be helpful. Post something on simulation to get us started.

We could even help establish Gil's reputation globally!

Gil Dodgem es muy estupido y idiota.

Ja, Gil Dodgem est ein dumkopf!

Now, we need Advocatus to put it into Moon Language, and Jeannot or The New French Guy into French, and perhaps, over time, the world could be united with it's opinion of Gil and ID.

Darn. Here I am, a long time lurker looking for a good occasion for my first post, and I let this one pass by while I was temporarily distracted. Well, better late than never.

Latin:
Gilbertus Dodgenus morio

Middle Egyptian:
wxA pw gr dDn

Swahili:
Bwana Gil ni mjinga.

Klingon:
cha' ghop lo'chugh tlhuQDaj SamlaHbe' ghIl Do'jen

Actually that last is "Gil Dodgen can't find his tail with both hands", Klingon having (disappointingly) no attested word for "ass".

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

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"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes. I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it. Okay? So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

JohnW

Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

Posted: Jan. 14 2009,14:32

Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 14 2009,12:21)

Algorithmically? That means set up a mechanism, let it run unsupervised, then use whatever it produced without correcting any mistakes. ;)

(Wait, isn't that another way of saying "theistic evolution"?)

Henry

In the UD context, "algorithmically" means a sciency-sounding word which may or may not have anything to do with the subject at hand, but makes the other posters think you're clever.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"... Â The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

Amadan

Posts: 1337
Joined: Jan. 2007

Posted: Jan. 14 2009,14:36

I find myself ~~in the mirror, not quite sober but devilishly handsome~~ unable to contribute to Gil's polyglot collection as the Irish for 'fool' is 'amadán', and that, it would appear, has been taken.

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"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye 4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

khan

Posts: 1554
Joined: May 2007

Posted: Jan. 14 2009,14:47

Quote (JohnW @ Jan. 14 2009,15:32)

Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 14 2009,12:21)

Algorithmically? That means set up a mechanism, let it run unsupervised, then use whatever it produced without correcting any mistakes. ;)

(Wait, isn't that another way of saying "theistic evolution"?)

Henry

In the UD context, "algorithmically" means a sciency-sounding word which may or may not have anything to do with the subject at hand, but makes the other posters think you're clever.

I read that quote several times and never did figure out what it meant.

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"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

J-Dog

Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

Posted: Jan. 14 2009,15:00

Quote (noncarborundum @ Jan. 14 2009,14:30)

Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 12 2009,07:33)

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Jan. 11 2009,21:33)

Gil Dodg'em:

Quote

I’ve been called every name in the book, the most common being IDiot.

Click here for just one such example of the vitriol to which I’ve been subjected. I could give you hundreds of more examples.

Gil - we can create more instances if that would be helpful. Post something on simulation to get us started.

We could even help establish Gil's reputation globally!

Gil Dodgem es muy estupido y idiota.

Ja, Gil Dodgem est ein dumkopf!

Now, we need Advocatus to put it into Moon Language, and Jeannot or The New French Guy into French, and perhaps, over time, the world could be united with it's opinion of Gil and ID.

Darn. Here I am, a long time lurker looking for a good occasion for my first post, and I let this one pass by while I was temporarily distracted. Well, better late than never.

Latin:
Gilbertus Dodgenus morio

Middle Egyptian:
wxA pw gr dDn

Swahili:
Bwana Gil ni mjinga.

Klingon:
cha' ghop lo'chugh tlhuQDaj SamlaHbe' ghIl Do'jen

Actually that last is "Gil Dodgen can't find his tail with both hands", Klingon having (disappointingly) no attested word for "ass".

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

Nicely done and welcome!

Now, if you could just pass these on to Gil. I am sure he will appreciate understanding how the natives truly consider him the next time he travels.

BTW - I think the Klingon word for "ass" is "Iks'bmed".

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

Posted: Jan. 14 2009,15:10

Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 14 2009,15:00)

BTW - I think the Klingon word for "ass" is "Iks'bmed".

Uh oh. It's not a good sign when the first response to my first post goes entirely over my head.

"Iks'bmed"?

Go ahead, make me feel stupid.

(In my original post I was going to suggest that the Klingon for "ass" was DoqDoq. Don't know why I didn't.)

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"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes. I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it. Okay? So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

carlsonjok

Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

Posted: Jan. 14 2009,15:15

Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 14 2009,15:00)

BTW - I think the Klingon word for "ass" is "Iks'bmed".

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it. We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

J-Dog

Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

Posted: Jan. 14 2009,15:21

Quote (noncarborundum @ Jan. 14 2009,15:10)

Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 14 2009,15:00)

BTW - I think the Klingon word for "ass" is "Iks'bmed".

Uh oh. It's not a good sign when the first response to my first post goes entirely over my head.

"Iks'bmed"?

Go ahead, make me feel stupid.

(In my original post I was going to suggest that the Klingon for "ass" was DoqDoq. Don't know why I didn't.)

You have to run it through the Nixplanatory Filter...

Hint: Dembski is BIG on Bible Codes...

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

Posted: Jan. 14 2009,15:26

Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 14 2009,15:21)

Quote (noncarborundum @ Jan. 14 2009,15:10)

Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 14 2009,15:00)

BTW - I think the Klingon word for "ass" is "Iks'bmed".

Uh oh. It's not a good sign when the first response to my first post goes entirely over my head.

"Iks'bmed"?

Go ahead, make me feel stupid.

(In my original post I was going to suggest that the Klingon for "ass" was DoqDoq. Don't know why I didn't.)

You have to run it through the Nixplanatory Filter...

Hint: Dembski is BIG on Bible Codes...

!ho'D

Note, at least, that I was on the same page, even if I was executing a different algorithm. (And mixing a metaphor.)

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"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes. I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it. Okay? So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

Arden Chatfield

Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Jan. 14 2009,15:32

Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 14 2009,13:00)

BTW - I think the Klingon word for "ass" is "Iks'bmed".

HA HA THIS IS YOU:

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

Posted: Jan. 14 2009,18:51

Quote

Andrew Sibley: For God’s sake, have Charles Darwin’s theories made any difference to our lives? - It is the bicentenary of Charles Darwin’s birth but creationists and scientists alike may spoil the party

A number of interesting points come out of this article by Bryan Appleyard.

No, they're just the usual rehashed ID arguments, complete with glaring contradictions.

Quote

Do you feel better or worse for the news that a gibbon is your close cousin? Do you even believe it, deep down? Some folk certainly don’t... All Darwin said was that random mutations occurred in organisms.

Common Descent is much, much more than "all Darwin said was random mutations".

Quote

All Darwin said was that random mutations occurred in organisms... He knew nothing of genes ...

Darwin didn't know about genes, so he didn't know about random genetic mutations.

Quote

... and he had not shown how perfection emerges.

There is no perfection in biology, but a tradeoff between various constraints.

Quote

And, finally, although Darwin showed micro-evolution – most famously in the variations of the forms of the beaks of Galapagos finches – his leap to the conclusion that this proved macro-evolution (species transforming into other species) was a leap of faith.

No. It was a well-reasoned scientific theory that led to generations of work largely confirming and extending his original insights.

And, of course, Hitler Hitler Hitler.

Quote

This reached its deathly climax, via the work of the German biologist Ernst Haeckel, in Hitler’s statement of intent, Mein Kampf.

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You never step on the same tard twiceâ€”for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

Posted: Jan. 14 2009,19:01

Quote

Michael Behe: My book, Darwin's Black Box ... was internationally reviewed in over one hundred publications and recently named by National Review and World magazine as one of the 100 most important books of the 20th century.

"National Review and World"

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You never step on the same tard twiceâ€”for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

Posted: Jan. 14 2009,19:10

Quote

Michael Behe: Rather, ID argues against the Darwinian claim that complex, functional molecular systems could be built by a random, unguided process.)

In fact, Behe made the specific claim that the mammalian clotting cascade was *irreducible*, and yet here is a system missing one of the *essential* components, and a natural evolutionary pathway to the more complex system.

Quote

Michael Behe: It’s pertinent to remember here the central point of The Edge of Evolution. We now have data in hand that show what Darwinian processes can accomplish, and it ain’t much.

The data Behe points to has been around a lot longer than his book. His argument is fallacious and has been rejected by his scientific peers. But then again, they're not his target audience.

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You never step on the same tard twiceâ€”for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Damian

Posts: 7
Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: Jan. 15 2009,00:40

Sorry if this has already been discussed. The scoundrels at UD are convinced that a paper has (sort of) vindicated the "front-loading hypothesis".

PZ has shown them the error of their ways, of course (both on his own blog, as well as PT).

Now, one of the authors of the paper has appeared at Pharyngula, and, well:

Quote

I am one of the authors on the study (I also blog at Deep Sea News). I have to say I'm amazed, and never thought in my wildest dreams, that the paper would ever be used as evidence for ID. Let me say that it clearly DOES NOT do any such thing. PZ has done an excellent write up of what the paper actually shows and there is no need for me to reiterate any of it. Thanks PZ!

One for the memory hole, perhaps?

When will they ever learn, when will they e-ver learn?

dochocson

Posts: 62
Joined: May 2006

Posted: Jan. 15 2009,00:53

Quote (Damian @ Jan. 14 2009,22:40)

Sorry if this has already been discussed. The scoundrels at UD are convinced that a paper has (sort of) vindicated the "front-loading hypothesis".

PZ has shown them the error of their ways, of course (both on his own blog, as well as PT).

Now, one of the authors of the paper has appeared at Pharyngula, and, well:

Quote

I am one of the authors on the study (I also blog at Deep Sea News). I have to say I'm amazed, and never thought in my wildest dreams, that the paper would ever be used as evidence for ID. Let me say that it clearly DOES NOT do any such thing. PZ has done an excellent write up of what the paper actually shows and there is no need for me to reiterate any of it. Thanks PZ!

One for the memory hole, perhaps?

When will they ever learn, when will they e-ver learn?

Ah, but in the UD/IDiot world, authors of scientific papers don't understand what those papers really say.

Only the true believers can read between the lines and discern that the research supports ID.

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All bleeding stops...eventually.

Reed

Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 2008

Posted: Jan. 15 2009,02:01

Quote (dochocson @ Jan. 14 2009,22:53)

Ah, but in the UD/IDiot world, authors of scientific papers don't understand what those papers really say.

Either that or they are secret ID researchers, who go through the motions of Darwinism to avoid being Expelled! Posting a comment like that on PZs blog is just deep cover. :D

Quack

Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

Posted: Jan. 15 2009,03:14

Quote (Zachriel @ Jan. 14 2009,18:51)

Quote

Andrew Sibley: For God’s sake, have Charles Darwin’s theories made any difference to our lives? - It is the bicentenary of Charles Darwin’s birth but creationists and scientists alike may spoil the party

A number of interesting points come out of this article by Bryan Appleyard.

No, they're just the usual rehashed ID arguments, complete with glaring contradictions.

Quote

Do you feel better or worse for the news that a gibbon is your close cousin? Do you even believe it, deep down? Some folk certainly don’t... All Darwin said was that random mutations occurred in organisms.

Common Descent is much, much more than "all Darwin said was random mutations".

Quote

All Darwin said was that random mutations occurred in organisms... He knew nothing of genes ...

Darwin didn't know about genes, so he didn't know about random genetic mutations.

Quote

... and he had not shown how perfection emerges.

There is no perfection in biology, but a tradeoff between various constraints.

Quote

And, finally, although Darwin showed micro-evolution – most famously in the variations of the forms of the beaks of Galapagos finches – his leap to the conclusion that this proved macro-evolution (species transforming into other species) was a leap of faith.

No. It was a well-reasoned scientific theory that led to generations of work largely confirming and extending his original insights.

And, of course, Hitler Hitler Hitler.

Quote

This reached its deathly climax, via the work of the German biologist Ernst Haeckel, in Hitler’s statement of intent, Mein Kampf.

I get a distinct feeling this Appleyard fellow isn't quite as smart as he thinks. Pretending to understand science, he wrote "Understanding The Present" ('An Alternative History of Science') - a verbose critique of science, ambiguosly hailed by James Lovelock with "its' a fine book as well as easy to read." I am at a loss for words.

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Rocks have no biology.
Robert Byers.

Quack

Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

Posted: Jan. 15 2009,03:22

Quote

Michael Behe: It’s pertinent to remember here the central point of The Edge of Evolution. We now have data in hand that show what Darwinian processes can accomplish, and it ain’t much.

"And it ain't much" - I just love how Behe always reveal how he ain't doing science, he is doing Göbbels.

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Rocks have no biology.
Robert Byers.

Louis

Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Jan. 15 2009,04:35

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 14 2009,21:32)

Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 14 2009,13:00)

BTW - I think the Klingon word for "ass" is "Iks'bmed".

HA HA THIS IS YOU:

I might favour the occasional game of Mornington Crescent, but at least I've never stooped to learning Klingon.

I think I am exempt from any nerd related humour from this point on, a new target has been found!

;-)

Louis

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Bye.

Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

Posted: Jan. 15 2009,07:37

Quote (Damian @ Jan. 15 2009,00:40)

Sorry if this has already been discussed. The scoundrels at UD are convinced that a paper has (sort of) vindicated the "front-loading hypothesis".

PZ has shown them the error of their ways, of course (both on his own blog, as well as PT).

Now, one of the authors of the paper has appeared at Pharyngula, and, well:

Quote

I am one of the authors on the study (I also blog at Deep Sea News). I have to say I'm amazed, and never thought in my wildest dreams, that the paper would ever be used as evidence for ID. Let me say that it clearly DOES NOT do any such thing. PZ has done an excellent write up of what the paper actually shows and there is no need for me to reiterate any of it. Thanks PZ!

One for the memory hole, perhaps?

When will they ever learn, when will they e-ver learn?

Well, PZ may think they're drunk, but they're just bureaucrats leaving a meeting of the Ministry of Silly Walks.

www.zachriel.com/randomwalker

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You never step on the same tard twiceâ€”for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

huwp

Posts: 172
Joined: Aug. 2006

Posted: Jan. 15 2009,08:32

Quote (Louis @ Jan. 15 2009,04:35)

I might favour the occasional game of Mornington Crescent, but at least I've never stooped to learning Klingon.

Except when you lose - then you sound like a Klingon with a hangover.

Weasbl

Posts: 1
Joined: Oct. 2008

Posted: Jan. 15 2009,09:59

Quote (Louis @ Jan. 15 2009,04:35)

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 14 2009,21:32)

Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 14 2009,13:00)

BTW - I think the Klingon word for "ass" is "Iks'bmed".

HA HA THIS IS YOU:

I might favour the occasional game of Mornington Crescent, but at least I've never stooped to learning Klingon.

I think I am exempt from any nerd related humour from this point on, a new target has been found!

;-)

Louis

I must thank J-Dog for graciously taking flak that should have been directed at me. As his comment indicates, he has not learned the first thing about the phonological constraints on Klingon vocables, having apparently found other pursuits more worthy of his time.

Actually, learning Klingon is an amusing intellectual exercise, and harmless as long as one don't take it to extremes (by, say, acquiring a complete Klingon wardrobe or teaching the language to one's children). This is certainly more than can be said of ID.

BTW I find the implication of sexual frustration thoroughly uncalled-for, but then you know J-Dog better than I do.

BopDiddy

Posts: 71
Joined: Nov. 2007

"National Review and World"

Posted: Jan. 15 2009,10:01

Quote (Zachriel @ Jan. 14 2009,19:01)

Quote

Michael Behe: My book, Darwin's Black Box ... was internationally reviewed in over one hundred publications and recently named by National Review and World magazine as one of the 100 most important books of the 20th century.

To be fair I think he meant to say "National Review [magazine] and World magazine". Or something similar, can't really tell.

For NR, though, his dreck is listed: http://www.nationalreview.com/100best/100_books.html

I consider myself a Google ninja and I just can't find any "World Magazine". "National Review and World" isn't the formal name for NR, either.

Perhaps this statement is unparseable because, and this is putting it politely, poor distributivity in his English grammar is likely related to his proven shitty grasp of mathematics and logic in general.

Regarding the list, my irony meter went boom when I notice Karl Popper made #6.

Expected entries from C.S. Lewis, Pope John Paul II, G.K. Chesterton, William F. Buckley Jr. (of course!), and the cheerless Allan Bloom share the list with Camus, Einstein, Feynman, Freud and Nabakov (but not for that book). Collective cognitive dissonance at its finest.

George Gilder, Senior Fellow at the Disco 'tute, has his ignorance on full display in his predictable gushing over Black Box: "Overthrows Darwin at the end of the 20th century in the same way that quantum theory overthrew Newton at the beginning."

Yes, George, the Laws of Motion along with differential and integral calculus are collecting dust with Phlogiston theory while engineers only concern themselves with the Schrödinger Equation, the Kronig-Penney model and the Explanatory Filter when designing braking systems. Whatta maroon.

Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

Posted: Jan. 15 2009,10:04

Quote (Weasbl @ Jan. 15 2009,09:59)

Actually, learning Klingon is an amusing intellectual exercise . . .

Sorry, that was me, posting by accident under an account I created some time ago but never got around to using. I wish I could get the hang of this internet thing.

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"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes. I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it. Okay? So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

J-Dog

Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

Posted: Jan. 15 2009,10:17

Quote (Weasbl @ Jan. 15 2009,09:59)

BTW I find the implication of sexual frustration thoroughly uncalled-for, but then you know J-Dog better than I do.

Thanks for the kind words, but as you gain more experience here, you'll find that like most Homos*, they are worried about their girl friends, and/or wives hooking up with a real caveman. And they realize that "Once you go cave, that's all that you crave". Homos.*

* Homo "sapiens" - Yeah. As if.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Marion Delgado

Posts: 89
Joined: Nov. 2007

Posted: Jan. 15 2009,11:34

Quote (Louis @ Jan. 15 2009,04:35)

I might favour the occasional game of Mornington Crescent, but at least I've never stooped to learning Klingon.

I think I am exempt from any nerd related humour from this point on, a new target has been found!

;-)

Louis

Louis:

You won't recall this, but a long time ago, maybe years? I said Mornington Crescent should become the official antievolution game for UD critics.

Because Mornington Crescent is the telic target of the evolution of creationism. The rules of ID already strongly resemble MC.

And of course, now that Behe and then Dembski have had their time in the sun, I plan to make a killing writing the definitive Next Wave creationist book and textbook supplements, based on MC. I am going to be a multiple doctorate senior fellow at the DI and you cannot stop me!

Just think, SC->CS->ID->MC

And this will of course boost tourism around MC tube station, which will become a telic shrine, as well as the careers of Belle and Sebastian and My Life Story, so everyone wins.

Quidam

Posts: 229
Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: Jan. 15 2009,12:18

I think you will be more successful if you dissemble a little.

Leave MC conveniently undefined and it can stand for anything: Meaningful Complexity or Modern Creosaltationalism.

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The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

Henry J

Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005