avocationist
Posts: 173
Joined: Feb. 2006
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Greg,
| Quote | | A reasonably intelligent and interested layperson - even a ninth grader - can quite easily understand, |
Well, now, that could be the problem right there. I only completed the 8th grade. Never set foot in high school. I just couldn't take it anymore. The main, but not the only reason I hated school was that they prevented me from reading.
Unfortunately and I'm ashamed to admit it, but purely for economic reasons I ruined my pristine state of nonschooling in my 30's and got an AA degree. It even included a few basic courses in cell biology, microbiology and what was probably high school level chemistry. I got straight A's course. If I had had any idea that school could ever become more exciting than solitary confinement, I'd have done what my niece just did - raised literally in a barn without electricity by her hippie parents, she has a totally free ride to Amherst. (Where she will no doubt become a Darwinist.)
| Quote | | and even accept (if they haven't already acquired a mental block which prevents them from doing so), the fundamentals of the Theory of Evolution, as I hope you'll discover when you read Mayr. |
But you only assume I have a mental block. Sigh...so few people really know what it means to worship the goddess of truth. One must be willing to chop off one's very limbs and cast them into the flames. At Darwinism I wouldn't even flinch if I thought it were true. And maybe you'll convince me yet!
| Quote | | The point I was trying to make with that comment was that it is invariably non-biologists (like you) who are trying to tell us biologists what is and isn't an accepted theory in biology. The Theory of Evolution is accepted by biologists, whether you like it or not (clearly you don't). |
If I implied that I don't think it is accepted by biologists, then I apologize. I believe I loved cell biology best of all; nerve conduction is sublime.
| Quote | | I sincerely hope you get something out of Mayr's book. But given that you've already made up your mind that mutations aren't necessary or sufficient to explain evolution, before you've bothered to learn what mutations even are, I suspect my hope is in vain. |
I have to admit that random mutations seem very unlikely to be responsible for much good, but I certainly want to learn more about it. Perhaps if I learn more, I'll understand your mistakes! 
Russell,
| Quote | | Are you intentionally being obtuse? Do you really think our understanding of biology, our ability to use it and predict it, is independent of our understanding of how organisms evolve? |
I promise I'm not. I know that you are studying single-celled organisms, and that they do mutate a bit. But in what way is your research affected by descent with modification? Do you know what previous species of bacteria your bacteria evolved from? How would that matter as compared to how your bacteria behave right now?
Your predictions may be based on learning more about how organisms mutate, but I don't see how your research is affected by the grand scheme of evoluton.
| Quote | | You just finished suggesting that the mechanisms by which organisms came to be what they are, are irrelevant to how we understand biology. We "Darwinists" (read: actual working scientists) think that mutation and selection are central to those mechanisms. IDers seem to think mutation and selection are secondary at best. I'm telling you mutation and selection are all we have to understand how and why influenza changes. |
I know that you consider mutations the driving force of evolution, and that I don't. As for being all you have, I really think that if it is bacteria you are studying, and their effects upon us, then mutation and selection are all you need.
| Quote | | If you're interested in biology or science, why oh why are you reading what some lawyer has to say about it? There really is no shortage of biology books written by actual biologists. |
Oh, but that isn't to learn about biology. His book is kind of an eye-opener. It just gives a window into the thoughts and problems as expressed by category by the many experts in their fields. Really, the book is pretty dry.
And don't think I have forgotten Denton. I'm quite interested in what you said. I'll get back to it on the other thread.
I'm also interested in where you said some vaccines just make it worse. Are those vaccines the public never hears about?
Wesley,
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Why, then, is it that they also take out any mention of a need to test ideas against the empirical evidence? |
Who says that? The conclusion I'm coming to today, while reading The Flagellum Unspun, is that everyone ought to stop pretending that we have a clue. But mostly the Darwinists of course.
Talk about biting off more than one can chew! Talk about a pandora's box! Talk about making a molehill out of a mountain! Oh, Charles, what have you wrought?
Happy Birthday to you
Happy Birthday to you
Happy Birthday dear Darwin
Happy Birthday to You
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