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stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2006,13:25   

In the year 2000...In the year, 2000



Davetard announced a new banning today when he banned...himself!...he added, "take that, homo"

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2006,13:41   

Quote
#

I think it is very important to point out that the key quote that Casey Luskin makes in his article doesn’t show the context in which Miller was writing. Here is the quote:

“Darwin knew that accepting his theory required believing in philosophical materialism, the conviction that matter is the stuff of all existence and that all mental and spiritual phenomena are its by-products. Darwinian evolution was not only purposeless but also heartless–a process in which the rigors of nature ruthlessly eliminate the unfit. Suddenly, humanity was reduced to just one more species in a world that cared nothing for us. The great human mind was no more than a mass of evolving neurons. Worst of all, there was no divine plan to guide us.” (Biology: Discovering Life, by Joseph S. Levine & Kenneth R. Miller (1st edition, D.C. Heath and Co., 1992), pg. 152; emphases in original)

Actually when one reads the statement in its context (see http://telicthoughts.com/?p=792), which Mr. Luskin does not give us, one comes to see that what Miller was doing was writing about the anxiety that Darwin sensed as he prepared to publish “Origin of Species.” Miller goes on to explain almost the exact reverse of what the quotation seems to say. Miller concludes this section by saying, “Like religious scientists of many faiths today, he found no less wonder in a god that directed the laws of nature than in one that circumvented them.”

I’m not sure that Mr. Luskin has fairly represented Miller. When I first read the quote, I felt a sense of dismay that Miller, a professed theist, would write something like this. However, further investigation shows that what he really said was the exact reverse of what he had been purported to have said.

Seems to me that we’re capable of making a few mistakes of our own.

Comment by darrel falk — July 7, 2006 @
5:07 pm


Darrel's cruising for a bruising.

   
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2006,13:54   

In the yearrr two thousandddd......

"An Alternate Universe will be discovered hidden in a tiny bubble, containing the brains of DaveScot and  the "Newton of Information Theory" -- They will call this universe "bizarro world."

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2006,16:14   

this was posted on Larry's blog, but it's from Davetard, so it belongs here:

Quote
DaveScot said...

   I hope someone keeps track of the 11 parents and their children. Everyone in Dover knows #### well that no children were forced to listen to the 60 second announcement regarding evolution and intelligent design. So what you have is 11 parents whose religious hostility extended to such a trivial matter they were willing to make the tiny school district pay a million dollars.

   I grew up in a small town and when a few people pull crap like that that hurts everyone there will be payback. I won't be at all surprised if the children of these parents are so badly ostracized and abused by other students that they're forced to find another school and the parents will be snubbed and insulted and their cars keyed and their coworkers and supervisors making their lives miserable that they'll all end up moving away.

   I hope that's all tracked so that the next group of parents that gets their panties in a bunch and volunteers to the be the designated shitheads know what it's going to cost them.

   Friday, July 07, 2006 5:34:44 PM


Disclaimer: it's ostensibly from Davescot. I have no evidence that the person calling himself Davescot is the real Davescot, except the circumstantial evidence that he's an unAmerican jerk and these are the comments of an unAmerican jerk.

   
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2006,18:32   

Re "There is, by definition, one universe. It seems that what little I understand of the MUT (multiple universe theory)"

That's a semantic point. The word "universe" can (and I guess did used to ) mean "all that exists", which would include all space-time continuums that exist (with or without causal connection to the one in which we live).

Personally, I wish people woulnd't use the word "universe" to mean a space-time continuum when they're talking about hypotheses involving multiple such space-times. (But then again, I quite often don't get what I wish, and don't really expect to this time, either - but I'm still gonna gripe about it! :) )

Henry

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2006,19:31   

Quote (Henry J @ July 07 2006,23:32)
Re "There is, by definition, one universe. It seems that what little I understand of the MUT (multiple universe theory)"

That's a semantic point. The word "universe" can (and I guess did used to ) mean "all that exists", which would include all space-time continuums that exist (with or without causal connection to the one in which we live).

Personally, I wish people woulnd't use the word "universe" to mean a space-time continuum when they're talking about hypotheses involving multiple such space-times. (But then again, I quite often don't get what I wish, and don't really expect to this time, either - but I'm still gonna gripe about it! :) )

Henry

Multiverse > Universe?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse
;)

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Aardvark



Posts: 134
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,00:51   

Quote
If liberal scientists really think it’s that disastrous why haven’t they embraced my suggestion that we take what they told us in previous decades about “nuclear winter” and use that to eliminate global warming? Surely if 1000 nuclear detonations all at once (or whatever the number was) can bring about global cooling of such proportion as to wipe out most of the life on the planet then surely some smaller number would halt global warming in its tracks. And we already have so many nuclear weapons we’re dismantling them just to make a less dangerous stockpile. So you kill two birds with one stone there, so to speak. The downside is some miniscule increased risk of cancer around the world. No biggie. Take all the money saved by not implimenting expensive schemes to reduce greenhouse gases and pour it into cancer research, prevention, and treatment.


http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1295#comments

DT has mentioned this 'solution' to climate change before.  

I find it difficult to decide if he's being honest or just joking around.  Either way it's just stunning idiocy.

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,03:23   

Buried within DaveTard's idiotic statement is this gem:
Quote
liberal scientists

Can you think of a better two-word summation of what really drives the anti-science crowd?  What's frustrating is that there's really no way to reach people who truly believe that science is the result of (or results in) a particular political philosophy.

  
Wonderpants



Posts: 115
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,04:23   

Quote (dhogaza @ July 08 2006,08:23)
Buried within DaveTard's idiotic statement is this gem:
 
Quote
liberal scientists

Can you think of a better two-word summation of what really drives the anti-science crowd?  

That's easy.

Atheist scientists.

As I've said before, despite his protestations to the contrary, DaveScot can't resist stock right wing Christian fundamentalist rants about atheists/liberals/activist judges, and so on.

--------------
Fundamentalism in a nutshell:
"There are a lot of things I have concluded to be wrong, without studying them in-depth. Evolution is one of them. The fact that I don't know that much about it does not bother me in the least."

  
millipj



Posts: 10
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,04:27   

http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1297

Quote
Now that we have Miller’s words in front of us tell me again how this is a fair representation of my view that there was no intervention over the entire course of evolution on this planet.
emphasis mine

So Dave, can we conclude that i) Dembski is lying about what Miller said, and ii) you agree with the fact of evolution (if not, necessarily, the mechanism)

Quote
Ken Miller is a very confused ID supporter.


On the contrary, it looks like Dave is actually a very confused supporter of evolution.

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,05:08   

Nailed

On the contrary, it looks like Dave is actually a very confused (Christian fundamentalist ranter about atheists/liberals/activist judges, and so on) supporter of evolution

Poor unloved Herr dSS ....

How is Mommy and her Hairy Helper DT?


Brazil? anyone.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,06:07   

Quote

Ken Miller is a very confused ID supporter.


Who better to evaluate Ivy League professors of biology, than degreeless computer technicians?

   
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,06:16   

Quote (stevestory @ July 08 2006,11:07)
Quote

Ken Miller is a very confused ID supporter.

Which brings up the immediate question:

Since it's illegal to teach ID, and since DI itself has given up completely on ID "theory", then (1) what difference does it make if Miller is an ID supporter and (2) what difference does it make if he isn't?

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,06:16   

Oh wait, I forgot he reads Scientific American. He's eminently qualified.

   
Chris Hyland



Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,06:53   

Quote
what difference does it make...
It's to do with the fact that the scientific status of the theory of evolution is mostly dependent on a) public comments made by any supporters of the theory who aren't evolutionary biologists, and b) the precise wording of high school textbooks.

At least that's what you'd think.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,07:11   

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 08 2006,12:16)
Quote (stevestory @ July 08 2006,11:07)
Quote

Ken Miller is a very confused ID supporter.

Which brings up the immediate question:

Since it's illegal to teach ID, and since DI itself has given up completely on ID "theory", then (1) what difference does it make if Miller is an ID supporter and (2) what difference does it make if he isn't?

It's just part of the ID Creationists' strategy to argue that absolutely everything in Dover was exactly wrong.

It's kind of like the New York Knicks saying they would have won the championship this year, but all 17,834 calls were incorrectly decided.

   
steve_h



Posts: 544
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,07:16   

Anyone else think it's ironic that the UD folk are identifying Ken Miller as a closit ID supporter so soon after they accused him of lying under oath?

  
steve_h



Posts: 544
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,07:34   

Ann Coulter weighs in on Darwinism      
Quote (Dembski @ UD)
I’m happy to report that I was in constant correspondence with Ann regarding her chapters on Darwinism — indeed,I take all responsibility for any errors in those chapters. :D ..
  :)

Ann Coulter’s “Flatulent Raccoon Theory” — and my role in it
   
Quote (Dembski @ UD)
The problem with Ann’s “Flatulent Raccoon Theory” is, of course, Where did the raccoon come from? To be an adequate theory of life, we need to couple the “Flatulent Raccoon Theory” with a “Spontaneous Large-Cute-Furry Mammal Theory,” which explains how primordial matter spontaneously generates humungous raccoons whose gas attacks ultimately generate us. Provided the “Flatulent Raccoon Theory” is coupled with this more basic theory, we have an adequate comparison with conventional evolutionary theory.

Q) Does this mean we should ask about the origins of the designer?
A) You're banned.

  
millipj



Posts: 10
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,07:41   

Quote
10. Dave,

If you believe in front-loading and no “tinkering” thereafter, am I correct to assume that you believe in natural selection and Darwinian evolution? If not, I would love to see your understanding of the biology of all that has happened if it only occurred because of a “seed” planted in the beginning. Either way this is very, very interesting: the czar of Bill Dembski’s web-site is either

1. A Darwinist, or
2. A person who believes that the grandeur of life that arose from the little “pond” evolved without any external intervention on its own by some mechanism other than natural selection…yet to be discovered.

I am also saddened that you don’t know the character of the Designer.

Thanks so much for your honesty and forthrightness.

Darrel

Comment by darrel falk — July 8, 2006 @ 11:48 am


Ouch :)

Looks like Dave has another of those damned-if-you-do/damned-if-you-don't moments.

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,07:58   

Stevestory wrote
Quote
It's just part of the ID Creationists' strategy to argue that absolutely everything in Dover was exactly wrong.

It's kind of like the New York Knicks saying they would have won the championship this year, but all 17,834 calls were incorrectly decided.


To top that off nicely the IDolotars would rather the series be decided by a phone in poll by creobots.

They forget ONE THING the refs are appointed by SATAN.

Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,08:03   

Quote (steve_h @ July 08 2006,12:16)
Anyone else think it's ironic that the UD folk are identifying Ken Miller as a closit ID supporter so soon after they accused him of lying under oath?

Well after all, all the ID-supporting board members lied under oath too.  (shrug)

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,08:46   

Six posts already today, and of such profundity that I can't tell my XX from my YY.  What balls-up are they trying to hide now?

Bob

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,09:22   

Maybe Dave's usual blabber about global warming?

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
Chris Hyland



Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,09:24   

Or all the flirting with the 17 year old lesbian cheerleader.

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,12:10   

Johnnyb has our number:
Quote
If one decides to argue against ID by saying that all of the arguments boil down to “it looks designed therefore it must be designed”, one must then argue against _any_ scientific inference or deduction. You could just as well argue that a “temperature inference” from a thermometer is invalid because “it looks hot therefore it must be hot”.

Maybe not, though, because when I read a thermometer I read the scale.  I don't look to see if it "looks hot".  Johnnyb needs a remedial thermometer reading class, perhaps? :)

  
mcc



Posts: 110
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,12:23   

Quote (Jim_Wynne @ July 07 2006,14:18)
Wrt the Cordova post at UD which references this bit of luskinism, it appears that Luskin is (probably deliberately) conflating editions (i.e., revisions) of the Miller/Levine text with printings of it.  Books may be reprinted without being revised, thus when Miller said in his Dover testimony that the language that Luskin is whining about was removed in the xth edition, he was apparently telling the truth.

Has anybody yet tried just contacting Miller and asking him if he made a mistake on the stand?

  
mcc



Posts: 110
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,12:25   

Quote (Bob O'H @ July 08 2006,13:46)
Six posts already today, and of such profundity that I can't tell my XX from my YY.  What balls-up are they trying to hide now?

Bob

Hm. I'm XY, what does that mean?

  
Wonderpants



Posts: 115
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,13:01   

Quote (mcc @ July 08 2006,17:23)
Has anybody yet tried just contacting Miller and asking him if he made a mistake on the stand?

You're new to UD antics, aren't you?  ;)

--------------
Fundamentalism in a nutshell:
"There are a lot of things I have concluded to be wrong, without studying them in-depth. Evolution is one of them. The fact that I don't know that much about it does not bother me in the least."

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,13:23   

Re "The problem with Anns Flatulent Raccoon Theory is, of course, Where did the raccoon come from?"

Raccoons? They should've gone with the bombadier beetle for that. ;)

Henry

  
mcc



Posts: 110
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2006,13:41   

Quote (Wonderpants @ July 08 2006,18:01)
Quote (mcc @ July 08 2006,17:23)
Has anybody yet tried just contacting Miller and asking him if he made a mistake on the stand?

You're new to UD antics, aren't you?  ;)

Oh, I wasn't asking if the UD crowd had. -_-

  
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