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Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,00:52   

Quote (keiths @ Sep. 05 2007,00:42)
bornagain77 deposits a nice math/physics tardicle:
?
Quote
I would also like to ask a hypothetical question on "imaginary numbers"
In Einsteins special theory of relativity, time as we understand it drops to zero at the speed of light.
Zero represents the non-existence of time yet the energy certainly must be real and must exist and as such MUST have a "real" time that it must exist in. That is to say that energy cannot possibly exist in a non-existent time. It is a logical absurdity to define this time of energy to zero, If you can see my point, So my question is how do mathematicians get around this apparent obstacle of logic in math so as to describe the reality of energy more appropriately? Do they "invent" an "imaginary number" to represent the "real" time that energy is logically required exist in?

This is modified from his oft cut and pasted "list of really stupid things"

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
djmullen



Posts: 327
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,01:32   

Quote (J-Dog @ Sep. 04 2007,16:01)
Just had another thought...

The whole Dembksi / UD / ID saga is perfect for TV. ?

It's got pathos, gross stupidity, a guy everyone loves to hate... another guy everyone loves to hate... well, it's got A LOT OF GUYS (including Denyse) that people love to hate...

The zany UD madcaps are always in trouble, and hilarity ensues. ?Every week, Demsbksi and his "Igor" (DaveScot) try to get into another university, but just like Gilligan and his crew never got off the island, UD et al, never get in another University!

Standing joke: ?Casey Luskin (played by himself, cuz no one else could be as whiney) trying to say something smart, but it always comes out dumb... "Casey You struck out" will be the line on everyone's lips for the whole first season.

Call the show "Trainwrecked" and you've got yourself a winner!

In honor of stevestory's first post in the Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread, call it "Everlasting Trainwrecked".

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,02:25   

Poor Bill's been replaced at Evolutionary Informatics by another Bill.  Welcome Bill Basener!

He has even done some work on biology - on population dynamics (errm, not evolution).  Admittedly it's just mathematics, and I'm pretty sure it (or something similar) has been done before , but it's more than most IDers.

Bob

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,03:21   

Quote (keiths @ Sep. 05 2007,05:50)
Denyse scores a crucial endorsement:
 
Quote
I've just finished reading The Spiritual Brain (I was sent an advance copy). It's superb, and is a milestone in what I think is going to be a long twilight struggle against materialist neuroscience.
- neurosurgeon Mike Egnor

There's that gotterdamerung again.

Want violin with that?

http://www.gnosticradio.org/index.p....emid=28

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,03:24   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Sep. 05 2007,10:25)
Poor Bill's been replaced at Evolutionary Informatics by another Bill. ?Welcome Bill Basener!

He has even done some work on biology - on population dynamics (errm, not evolution). ?Admittedly it's just mathematics, and I'm pretty sure it (or something similar) has been done before , but it's more than most IDers.

Bob

Yeah Bill Dembski Bill who? could become the father of intelligent information theory.

Do they even know who Claude Shannon was?

An Algebra for Theoretical Genetics

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,03:32   

I suspect New Bill might know who Shannon was.  Or if he doesn't, it's because Shannon did applied stuff that isn't interesting.

New Bill looks like a perfectly respectable mathematician (and it's not often you see those words next to each other: only 168 hits on Google).  He'll be worth watching with interest: is he honest but mis-guided?  Or more Dembski-like in his character?

Actually, the same questions could be asked about Marks too.

Bob

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,03:51   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Sep. 05 2007,11:32)
I suspect New Bill might know who Shannon was. ?Or if he doesn't, it's because Shannon did applied stuff that isn't interesting.

New Bill looks like a perfectly respectable mathematician (and it's not often you see those words next to each other: only 168 hits on Google). ?He'll be worth watching with interest: is he honest but mis-guided? ?Or more Dembski-like in his character?

Actually, the same questions could be asked about Marks too.

Bob

Marks is definitely dodgy.
Hiring a lawyer to get up a hobby horse web page on company time and money that promotes pseudo science no better than astrology has all the hall marks of crackpot written all over it.

He can claim the old strange bedfellow Post Modern Feminist stance of being Academia's Old Guard Victim while being a right wing authoritarian zealot AND any idea is valid even if, or just because, it's not company policy.

Plus being a 'colleague' of broom closet denizen WMad who has to be egging him on.

Bill who? Might be in for the ride of his life.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,04:10   

Looks like Bill who? might have been designed for the job.

Quote
.....Claiming that the order of the universe implies the nonexistence of a creator is like finding a working watch on the ground in the woods and saying, ?well it works so it must have come together by random chance.?  Even worse, claiming that our abundant scientific knowledge universe implies the nonexistence of a creator is like opening up the watch and documenting all the gears and saying, ?Now I know how it works.  Hence it is logical so it did not have a creator.?
blah blah etc etc

From Why I believe Christianity is reasonable in a Scientific world

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,06:42   

Quote (keiths @ Sep. 04 2007,23:45)
P.S. I was Karl Pfluger. Those were good times.

Oh, Wow!

Which one of you is Tom English?

Looking back on those several threads in light of UD's impoverishment since that time, it's actually astonishing that DaveTard and WAD let them go on for so long. Some interesting interchanges actually occurred, and some issues wrestled to the ground. I think unprecedented at UD at the time, and hasn't happened since.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,06:52   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Sep. 05 2007,14:42)
 
Quote (keiths @ Sep. 04 2007,23:45)
P.S. I was Karl Pfluger. Those were good times.

Oh, Wow!

Which one of you is Tom English?

Looking back on those several threads in light of UD's impoverishment since that time, it's actually astonishing that DaveTard and WAD let them go on for so long. Some interesting interchanges actually occurred, and some issues wrestled to the ground. I think unprecedented at UD at the time, and hasn't happened since.

OH YEAH? YOU ALL WRESTLED TEH BANNINATOR AND LOST. HOMOS!!!!!1111WQ32Q`W....d337

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,07:22   

Quote (keiths @ Sep. 04 2007,23:37)
Translation: Although I have no idea who Chalmers is or what his theory entails, it is my professional opinion that it may fit into one of the categories above. Or not.

?
Quote
The thing is, more unsatisfactory theories come down the pike all the time, but that is not the sort of situation that causes one to anticipate that the next one will change everything.


Translation: Bad theories are put forward all the time, so why should I bother to understand a theory before dismissing it?

Let's think about this...maybe Denyse is one of Chalmer's non-conscious zombies?

No, wait...Chalmers argued that non-concscious zombies that otherwise embodied the physical causality of conscious persons would be indistinguishable from conscious persons - including protestations that they are conscious. So we can't excuse Denyse's writing as reflecting unconsciousness - intuitive as that seems.

(Translation: Chalmer's thesis that consciousness is real but doesn't do any work itself doesn't work, at least not for me.)

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
franky172



Posts: 160
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,08:32   

kairosfocus writes:

Quote
Now, WHY does all of this lead to such interesting real-world connexions? Such as, for example, the Fourier and Laplace transform and the world of frequency and dynamical responses of systems?

Because we developed a mathematics that describes accurately the world around us.  If we lived in a different world, or wanted to describe things differently we would have different math.

Quote
In short, why is Math ? an issue of mind and abstract logic ? so elegant and magical, with capacity to refer to observed reality?

Because if it weren't, we wouldn't call it math - we'd call what ever else refers to the real world "math", and consider that "elegant and magical".  The ancient Greeks had math, too - it was hardly elegant or magical.

As an aside I'd suggest that anyone who's ever tried to do Bayesian analysis without conjugate priors and who still calls all of mathematics "elegant" is off his rocker.

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,09:02   

Quote
In short, why is Math ? an issue of mind and abstract logic ? so elegant and magical, with capacity to refer to observed reality?


Maybe he is talking about The Glass Bead Game

?Theoretically,? writes the Narrator Archivist, ?this instrument is capable of producing in the Game the entire intellectual content of the universe. The manuals, pedal, and stops are now fixed. Changes in their number and order and attempts at perfecting them, are actually no longer feasible except in theory.? And with this statement, he reveals the limitations of the game: its elitism, its hubris, its stagnation, and its sterility. In its infancy, the Game was played with delicate glass beads, which have since been discarded as too . . . real? They connected the Game with the spiritual beads played by religious believers worldwide, as the robes, and secret language, and ceremonial trappings of the game form a mock religious experience in the time of the Narrator Archivist. Without them, the game flies into the ether without a tether to reality. In our world, prayer beads and the repetition of simple phrases serve as keys to transcendence. In Castalia, they are discarded and the key is lost. The Narrator Archivist makes no reference to the ecstatic states that might be achieved by Glass Bead Game players. The games as he describes them in Knecht?s time (the twenty-second century) and his own (the twenty-fourth century) apparently fall short of what seems the obvious goal.


--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,09:04   

From Bill Basener's homepage:
(and oh my gosh what a hideous choice in wallpaper)
http://www.rit.edu/~wfbsma/basener.html
Quote
# My faith in God. (I help out with B.A.S.I.C., one of the many excellent Christian groups on campus.)
# Why I believe Christianity is reasonable in a Scientific world.


From the latter page http://www.rit.edu/~wfbsma/my_faith/why_Chsritianity.html
Quote
Now consider the miracles that the Bible claims that Jesus performed, including rising from the dead.  Now if these miracles are true then Jesus is God, or at least is a whole lot more powerful then any other human in history and is probably God.  The gospels, written by first hand accounts of Jesus? life, claim the miracles really happened.  The gospels (along with numerous other letters) were written by early Christian believers soon after Jesus? death.  Some today claim that these miracles didn?t happen and that the early Christian letters are lies made up after Jesus? death to promote their religion.  However, many of the early Christians were martyred for their beliefs.  If fact all of the original disciples except one were martyred.  If Jesus did not perform the miracles and did not rise from the dead then all of the disciples, who claimed to be first hand witnesses and claimed to see him after he rose, knew that Christianity was a lie.  But if they knew it was a lie then they all died for the lie.  Most of them were put to death with the offer to deny Christ and live.  It is quite unreasonable to believe that many would die for something they knew to be a lie.

Shall we estimate the number of U.S. soldiers who died in Vietnam who considered that they died for a lie?  People die for lies all the time, sometimes willingly, sometimes not, sometimes knowingly, sometimes not.

  
heddle



Posts: 126
Joined: Nov. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,09:20   

NWells,

His argument is a common form of bootstrapping. For example, here is a typical outline:

1. Jesus is a real historic figure
2. The gospels are, at least, reasonable historic accounts
3. The gospels describe Jesus as performing miracles
4. Miracles are a sign from God that the person performing them is a prophet
5. As a prophet, Jesus would speak the truth
6. Jesus affirmed the bible as the word of God

Conclusion--Therefore, the bible is the word of God

(One then attempts to bolster each point.)

These are apologetic plausibility arguments for believers. They are not meant to convince atheists who, in fact, are incapable of believing them anyway.

This Bill seems like a reasonable fellow.

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,09:21   

Quote (N.Wells @ Sep. 05 2007,09:04)
From Bill Basener's homepage:
(and oh my gosh what a hideous choice in wallpaper)
http://www.rit.edu/~wfbsma/basener.html
Quote
# My faith in God. (I help out with B.A.S.I.C., one of the many excellent Christian groups on campus.)
# Why I believe Christianity is reasonable in a Scientific world.


From the latter page http://www.rit.edu/~wfbsma/my_faith/why_Chsritianity.html
Quote
Now consider the miracles that the Bible claims that Jesus performed, including rising from the dead. ?Now if these miracles are true then Jesus is God, or at least is a whole lot more powerful then any other human in history and is probably God. ?The gospels, written by first hand accounts of Jesus? life, claim the miracles really happened. ?The gospels (along with numerous other letters) were written by early Christian believers soon after Jesus? death. ?Some today claim that these miracles didn?t happen and that the early Christian letters are lies made up after Jesus? death to promote their religion. ?However, many of the early Christians were martyred for their beliefs. ?If fact all of the original disciples except one were martyred. ?If Jesus did not perform the miracles and did not rise from the dead then all of the disciples, who claimed to be first hand witnesses and claimed to see him after he rose, knew that Christianity was a lie. ?But if they knew it was a lie then they all died for the lie. ?Most of them were put to death with the offer to deny Christ and live. ?It is quite unreasonable to believe that many would die for something they knew to be a lie.

Shall we estimate the number of U.S. soldiers who died in Vietnam who considered that they died for a lie? ?People die for lies all the time, sometimes willingly, sometimes not, sometimes knowingly, sometimes not.

Thank youfor the cut n past - so I don't have to visit his poorly designed site...

I do believe he will fit right in with all the other fuzzy thinkers at UD.  ID predicts that we can look forward to hours and hours of barely decipherable Babble From The New Bozo™.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,09:48   

Quote
These are apologetic plausibility arguments for believers. They are not meant to convince atheists who, in fact, are incapable of believing them anyway.


FFS H. if your god person existed then atheists wouldn't exist. IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

Quote


This Bill seems like a reasonable fellow.



Well .....sez you. To me he seems off his rocker.

Thought you'ld just like to know that.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,09:52   

Heddle:

Quote
They are not meant to convince atheists who, in fact, are incapable of believing them anyway.


Well, only insofar as if they do believe them, they are no longer atheists.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,09:54   

DaveTard!

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-135805

Quote
16

DaveScot

09/05/2007

9:40 am
Derbyshire is nuts. Increasing knowledge of genetics is burying the random mutation theory of evolution.


He's confused 'burying' with 'supplementing' there. Schoolgirl error.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,10:06   

Rich, you're about to get a whole messa Calvinism upside the head.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,10:10   

I suggest a six-pack of Modelo Especial to help you recover.


   
heddle



Posts: 126
Joined: Nov. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,10:14   

stevestory  
Quote
Rich, you're about to get a whole messa Calvinism upside the head.

No, I'll refrain. I'll go to the gym instead.

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,10:27   

Hahahaha hehehehe *Happy Dance*
Quote
John Derbyshire was absolutely emphatic that George Bush and the US would not have the guts to invade Iraq. So his track record on predictions is not necessarily good. He is a conservative and a gifted writer but he is also often an angry man. I stopped reading his postings at NRO about the time of the Iraq invasion.

He is a student of mathematics and has written several books on math so I assume he thinks he has a scientific mind.

Dr. Dr. Dembski, gimme the news! I gotta bad case of lovin' yuse commenters!

Somebody set that comment to music so I can dance to it! :D

And is Jerry still with us? Of course! Sometimes what they don't delete is even better than what does get struck. :)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,10:30   

Quote (k.e @ Sep. 05 2007,10:02)
?
Quote
In short, why is Math ? an issue of mind and abstract logic ? so elegant and magical, with capacity to refer to observed reality?


Maybe he is talking about The Glass Bead Game

?Theoretically,? writes the Narrator Archivist, ?this instrument is capable of producing in the Game the entire intellectual content of the universe. The manuals, pedal, and stops are now fixed. Changes in their number and order and attempts at perfecting them, are actually no longer feasible except in theory.? And with this statement, he reveals the limitations of the game: its elitism, its hubris, its stagnation, and its sterility. In its infancy, the Game was played with delicate glass beads, which have since been discarded as too . . . real? They connected the Game with the spiritual beads played by religious believers worldwide, as the robes, and secret language, and ceremonial trappings of the game form a mock religious experience in the time of the Narrator Archivist. Without them, the game flies into the ether without a tether to reality. In our world, prayer beads and the repetition of simple phrases serve as keys to transcendence. In Castalia, they are discarded and the key is lost. The Narrator Archivist makes no reference to the ecstatic states that might be achieved by Glass Bead Game players. The games as he describes them in Knecht?s time (the twenty-second century) and his own (the twenty-fourth century) apparently fall short of what seems the obvious goal.

k.e - I'm wondering if Kairodufus does much swimming.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2333
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,10:34   

Quote (k.e @ Sep. 04 2007,09:37)
Part paid and no return from this horses mouth

 
Quote
...In 2002, Dembski published No Free Lunch and requested a second installation payment on the Book Grant from the Templeton Foundation (Dembski, 2002).  In correspondence with him, he was told by me that this book did not fulfill his obligation to publish a work on metaphysics and theology as detailed in his book proposal entitled Being as Communion.  That book has still not been produced.


The Case of the Missing Book: Setting the Record Straight on William Dembski, the Templeton Foundation, and Intelligent Design

Oh My:

Quote
Dembski continues in his Metanexus essay:

   ?Repeatedly I've been asked to distance myself not only from the obstreperous likes of Phillip Johnson but especially from the even more scandalous young earth creationists?  I'm prepared to do neither??15  

And there with comes the rub.  One can legitimately debate the meaning of evolution and how it occurs.  

These are engaging and difficult issues in science, philosophy, and the theology of nature.16  On the other hand, it is pretty stupid to choose as one?s allies those who deny the overwhelming accumulation of evidence in favor of a long Earth history and the transmutation of species. (bold by gh)


--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,11:17   

Quote
k.e - I'm wondering if Kairodufus does much swimming.


Reciprocating Bill - I'm wondering why you are wondering.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,12:40   

Quote (k.e @ Sep. 05 2007,12:17)
Quote
k.e - I'm wondering if Kairodufus does much swimming.


Reciprocating Bill - I'm wondering why you are wondering.

That's how the protagonist of Magister Ludi meets his maker. Having shed the mantle of Magister Ludi and left the ultra-abstract world of the glass bead game, he goes swimming in a cold mountain lake (I think with his nephew) and promptly drowns. The end.

(Fashions some additional puns about Kairodufus being perpetually in over his head).

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,13:18   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 05 2007,10:06)
Rich, you're about to get a whole messa Calvinism upside the head.

Oh right. Is it a "these cats are predestined for heaven yet also have free will" type deal?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,13:22   

Please have your crown of thorns handy..

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....ics-lab

Quote
5 September 2007
MEDIA COVERAGE: Baylor, Robert Marks, and the Evolutionary Informatics Lab
William Dembski
Media are continuing to weigh in on the controversy surrounding Prof. Robert Marks and the suppression by Baylor President John Lilley and his administration of Marks?s Evolutionary Informatics Lab. I?ll use this post to keep you up to date on media coverage.

September 5, 2007: ?Academic Freedom Expelled from Baylor University? ? The widely read Evolution News & Views blog reports on the controversy.
September 4, 2007: ?Baylor U. Removes a Web Page Associated With Intelligent Design From Its Site? ? Chronicle of Higher Education reports on the lab, taking the controversy national.
September 3, 2007: ?Backgrounder to Robert Marks?s lab shutdown: Baylor revokes Dembski?s research fellowship 2006? ? Denyse O?Leary provides background indicating that Baylor?s suppression of the Evolutionary Informatics Lab is consistent with past actions by President John Lilley to suppress ID at Baylor.
September 1, 2007: ?Baptist University pulls plug on Evolutionary Informatics Lab - links to intelligent design fatal? ? Denyse O?Leary breaks the story here at UD.



"The widely read Evolution News & Views blog reports on the controversy."

If you have to say it's widely read...it isn't.

Still one credible source from 4 isn't bad.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2007,13:28   

DaveTard tries Popper take 15:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-135801

Quote
34

DaveScot

09/05/2007

9:12 am
jordan

?God? (defined as an infinite being where all things are possible) and an infinite multiverse (defined as an infinite space where all things are mandatory) are both non-scientific. Remember the old saw ?A theory that explains everything explains nothing?.

Intelligent agency capable of building complex machines is already instantiated in this universe at least once. One additional intelligent agency in the observable universe is clearly more parsimonius.

The ID hypothesis stated as follows is perfectly scientific according to Popper?s famous example with swans (all swans are white).

All complex machines are intelligently designed.

Just as the observation of one black swan will falsify Popper?s example - one observation of a complex machine designed without intelligent agency will falsify the ID hypothesis.

Behe?s recent book ?Edge of Evolution? is very important as it describes an observation (p. falciparum replicating trillions of times) where the ID hypothesis could have been falsified but instead was a confirmed prediction of ID (no complex machines without intelligent agency). It?s hard to imagine a better test of random mutation?s real-world ability than analyzing genetic change in a eukaryote at the nucleotide level over orders of magnitude more replications than all mammals that ever lived.


NO SCIENCE SO FAR.

But supposing I list these as machines:

a snowflake
Mountains
Oklo nuclear reactors
A tornado
Forest fires
Lunar tides

Whoopsey, DT.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
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