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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 2, general discussion of Dembski's site< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2008,17:38   

While this might seem off topic, I think this exchange on /. will be familiar to those of us here. The first guy roughly equates to the UD perspective, the second guy equates to scientists who actually know what they're talking about.

First guy, quoting the Yale story I put on the Science Break thread:

Quote
Quote
In the last several years, scientists have discovered that non-coding regions of the genome, far from being junk, contain thousands of regulatory elements that act as genetic "switches" to turn genes on or off.
...Biologists discover "flags". Seriously, these guys should just bring a programmer on-staff — preferably assembly, as decoding the arcane secrets of all Earth life should be a breeze for anyone whose day job involves the x86 instruction set.


Second guy:

Quote
Biologists discover "flags". Seriously, these guys should just bring a programmer on-staff -- preferably assembly, as decoding the arcane secrets of all Earth life should be a breeze for anyone whose day job involves the x86 instruction set.

[Sigh] Every time a biology story is posted on /. it seems like we get a bunch of posts along the lines of "dumb biologists, any techie would have figured that out a long time ago!"

Please don't confuse the reality with the dumbed-down versions that appear in the popular press or the even more dumbed-down summaries. Bioinformatics, which is what I do, has been an established science for over a decade, and I can assure you that computer scientists have been working with biologists for a lot longer than that. Most of the obvious computational analogies have already been thought of -- and most, unfortunately, have had to be discarded. Despite some of the superficial similarities, genomes are not programs, at least not in the way CS people use the word. They're more like a collection of heuristics, and even that way of thinking about things breaks down when you start looking at the details.

I'm more on the CS/math/stat side of things, and my colleagues on the bio side are often mystified by what I do -- but I'm equally often mystified by what they do. Both CS and biology are tremendously complex fields, and if you think you can arbitrarily apply lessons learned from one field to the other, you will almost always turn out to be wrong. Biologists and computer scientists can learn a lot from working with each other; work in one field very often leads to advances in the other; and by all means (he says, with a healthy dollop of self-interest) the areas of collusion should continue to grow. But thinking that there's some natural equivalence in one field to what you know from the other is simply a mistake.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2008,17:42   

http://science.slashdot.org/science/08/09/07/1439239.shtml link for above comment

   
1of63



Posts: 126
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2008,19:24   

Quoth Dense &Dreary
Quote
As a traditional Christian...

...I have only a nodding acquaintance with the traditional Christian virtues of charity, humility and compassion.

The traditional Pharisaical vices of hypocrisy, censoriousness and self-righteousness are another matter, however.

--------------
I set expectations at zero, and FL limbos right under them. - Tracy P. Hamilton

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2008,22:12   

The Allmacht Of The Squid Hordes

comments off.  these people are stupider than i ever imagined.  i discover this daily.  race to the bottom.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 07 2008,22:29   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Sep. 07 2008,23:12)
The Allmacht Of The Squid Hordes

comments off.  these people are stupider than i ever imagined.  i discover this daily.  race to the bottom.

Wow. That has to be seen to be believed. They're attributing McCain's post-convention bounce to PZ's cracker affair.

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,00:34   

Courtesy of The Straight Dope: The reDiscovery Institute:  
Quote
The reDiscovery Institute is non-profit, public-policy think-tank located in Tacoma, Washington, with branches in Atlanta, Georgia and Fort Worth, Texas. ...

The reDiscovery Institute supports Fellows, who write letters to editors, testify at trials, post text on the web, and publish editorials in the Washington Times. ...

The reDiscovery Institute urges adherence to Phillip Johnson's Ice Pick Gambit: "Until we gain total control, keep the old testament part of our agenda quiet because it frightens normal people."

Under fellows: "Little Willie Dembski, Piltdown Fellow

Dr. Willie Dembski is Piltdown Fellow of the reDiscovery Institute. He is founder of the Web Blog "Sex, Lies and DNA", where he expounds on the study of biology. But he never does any biology himself, nor does he publish anything in peer-reviewed journals. He is a con artist of a mathematician, a fake-philosopher and biological charlatan. He is the Assistant Secretary of the Ann Coulter Fan Club. He works diligently at the task of CV puffery, referring to himself as a PUBLIC INTELLECTUAL. He is the author of Creative Creationism: Dissimulating for God, and the best seller in the home schooling market, The Old Testament: A Practical and Complete Study Guide for Calculus and Analytical Geometry. "


Good stuff.

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 1180
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,01:52   

Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Sep. 07 2008,22:12)
The Allmacht Of The Squid Hordes

comments off.  these people are stupider than i ever imagined.  i discover this daily.  race to the bottom.

Do we know who writes the PharyngulaWatch entries? If not what's the money on DaveT or Dr Dr D?

--------------
We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.”
-PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

  
PTET



Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,06:37   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 07 2008,22:29)
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Sep. 07 2008,23:12)
The Allmacht Of The Squid Hordes

comments off.  these people are stupider than i ever imagined.  i discover this daily.  race to the bottom.

Wow. That has to be seen to be believed. They're attributing McCain's post-convention bounce to PZ's cracker affair.

I had to read that several times.

"They're attributing McCain's post-convention bounce to PZ's cracker affair."

I feel like Dave Bowman at the end of 2001: "My God, it's full of stars!"

Uncommon Descent are actually, genuinely, attributing McCain's post-convention bounce to PZ's cracker affair.

Surely this is a new level of stupidity - tard, if you will - that deserves to be marked somhow, a day to remember... To tell our grandchildren about!?

--------------
"It’s not worth the effort to prove the obvious. Ridiculous ideas don’t deserve our time.
Even the attempt to formulate ID is a generous accommodation." - ScottAndrews

   
dmso74



Posts: 110
Joined: Aug. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,07:49   

parlar is doing a nice job dismantling Dave's "t3ss DEvolved from the flagellum" argument.. and the paper Dave links to in post 35 actually  (again) confirms that both t3ss and flagellum evolved from a common ancestor..

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....omments

  
Jkrebs



Posts: 590
Joined: Sep. 2004

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,08:15   

I predict that parlar won't last long because Dave will get irked at having to continue to "correct his mistakes."

  
PTET



Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,08:29   

Quote (Jkrebs @ Sep. 08 2008,08:15)
I predict that parlar won't last long because Dave will get irked at having to continue to "correct his mistakes."

Quote
DaveScot
09/07/2008

parlar

Nice try but no cigar...

Has there ever been a bigger dick in the entire history of the Universe than David Scott Springer?

--------------
"It’s not worth the effort to prove the obvious. Ridiculous ideas don’t deserve our time.
Even the attempt to formulate ID is a generous accommodation." - ScottAndrews

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,10:25   

Quote (PTET @ Sep. 08 2008,14:29)
Quote (Jkrebs @ Sep. 08 2008,08:15)
I predict that parlar won't last long because Dave will get irked at having to continue to "correct his mistakes."

 
Quote
DaveScot
09/07/2008

parlar

Nice try but no cigar...

Has there ever been a bigger dick in the entire history of the Universe than David Scott Springer?

John Holmes'?

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,14:46   

Quote (Louis @ Sep. 08 2008,10:25)
Quote (PTET @ Sep. 08 2008,14:29)
Quote (Jkrebs @ Sep. 08 2008,08:15)
I predict that parlar won't last long because Dave will get irked at having to continue to "correct his mistakes."

 
Quote
DaveScot
09/07/2008

parlar

Nice try but no cigar...

Has there ever been a bigger dick in the entire history of the Universe than David Scott Springer?

John Holmes'?

Louis

re:  Your Mr. Holmes -

I think that the denizens and demagogues at UD and the IDists have a much better grasp of the subject than we do.

Remember - If you can't measure it, it Ain't science.  Right Davey?"

Someone send that man a microscope so he can get in touch with himself.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,15:03   

Quote (J-Dog @ Sep. 08 2008,20:46)
[SNIP]
re:  Your Mr. Holmes -

I think that the denizens and demagogues at UD and the IDists have a much better grasp of the subject than we do.

[SNIP]

Better grip. Woof! Fnar Fnar! Gibber! Cork Cork! Snigger Snigger! Etc.



Louis

P.S. For the uninitiated

--------------
Bye.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,16:16   

The current headline at UD:

Quote
Sarah Palin Unlikely to Push Evolution Issue
was ‘Creation Science Enters the Race’


that word salad wasn't written by Denyse, is the weird part.



Linky

   
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,16:40   

This is one of the saddest things I have ever read:
Quote
5

StephenB

09/07/2008

12:55 pm
Denyse: Excellent! The Obama/Palin juxtaposition is most apt. If plagiarism wasn’t a vice, I would steal your words and use them as my own. I suspect that most of those who deny design in nature are also sorry that Trig Palin is still alive.

My emphasis.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
steve_h



Posts: 544
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,16:56   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 08 2008,22:16)
The current headline at UD:

   
Quote
Sarah Palin Unlikely to Push Evolution Issue
was ‘Creation Science Enters the Race’


[that] that word salad wasn't written by Denyse, is the weird part.

Linky

Makes perfect sense to me. It's written using an "updated newspaper headline" idiom:  <today's headline> was '<yesterday's headline>', though I'm buggered if I can figure out how to google for other examples, as "was" is something of a noise word. Maybe there should be an additional punctuation mark or some brackets.


I unwisely suggested a correction to your comment. That will make my own errors look especially foolish, when they form during transmission.

-----
Transparent moderation policy, transparent moderation policy, Ra Ra Ra! Give me a 'T', give me an 'R',  give me an .. oh sod this.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,17:06   

Yeah, more punctuation would have helped.

'Sarah Palin Unlikely to Push Evolution Issue'
was ‘Creation Science Enters the Race’

would have made more sense, though still been opaque.

   
C.J.O'Brien



Posts: 395
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,17:31   

Quote (JohnW @ Sep. 08 2008,16:40)
This is one of the saddest things I have ever read:
Quote
5

StephenB

09/07/2008

12:55 pm
Denyse: Excellent! The Obama/Palin juxtaposition is most apt. If plagiarism wasn’t a vice, I would steal your words and use them as my own. I suspect that most of those who deny design in nature are also sorry that Trig Palin is still alive.

My emphasis.

Uh-huh, and if inadvertant auto-dismemberment weren't lethal, I'd borrow your rusty, damaged chainsaw to cut down this 'ere tree.

--------------
The is the beauty of being me- anything that any man does I can understand.
--Joe G

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,21:07   

Quote


4

O'Leary

09/07/2008

12:42 pm

You are all most kind. A Toronto hack has suggested to me that my tack was right because Trig Palin is a fair match for Barack Obama in terms of experience.

5

StephenB

09/07/2008

12:55 pm

Denyse: Excellent! The Obama/Palin juxtaposition is most apt. If plagiarism wasn’t a vice, I would steal your words and use them as my own. I suspect that most of those who deny design in nature are also sorry that Trig Palin is still alive.


I just keep staring at those two comments. They're just mind-boggling.

   
Jkrebs



Posts: 590
Joined: Sep. 2004

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,21:27   

Dave says,

Quote
DaveScot
09/08/2008
8:55 pm

Okay, y’all want a hypothetical mechanism a hypothetical designer used to used to insert complex specified information into the DNA of living organisms…

Retroviruses and phages.

Any questions other than wanting to know the address of the designer’s lab and the brand of lab equipment he/she/they used to assemble the viruses or the fuel economy of the aircraft used to disperse the CSI vectors?

If you want us to play the evolution game where anything we can imagine happening in the past, as long as it’s physically possible, is as good as experimental demonstration then we can play that game too. We’d prefer to rise above the fabrication of stories that our opponents call evolutionary biology but I suppose when in Rome we should do as the Romans do and just start making crap up that goes far beyond the actual evidence.



Winston Macchi treads on dangerous grounds by replying:

Quote
Winston Macchi
09/08/2008
9:05 pm

DaveScot,

I think that is a bit of a cop-out. First of all, the question wasn’t how is any CSI inserted, it was how was the flagellar motor inserted in particular, which is a very different question indeed.

Furthermore, your answer just begs the question of how the retroviruses or phages were made in the first place.

Now it’s fair enough to say we don’t know but I don’t think your answer flies.


Start the countdown? - assuming Winston sticks around and tries to play.
Link

  
Jkrebs



Posts: 590
Joined: Sep. 2004

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2008,22:13   

Dave gets a little testy:

Quote


Winston Macchi

The retroviruses and phages were made in a lab on the dark side of the moon, packaged in cannisters for aerial dispersal, and boosted from the moon to the earth by magnetic rail guns. The genes that make up the parts of the flaggellar motor and control its assembly where inserted into existing bactreria by custom designed bacteriophages.

You think that’s a copout? Now you know how we feel about our opponents claiming that a random dance of atoms did the same thing. Chancedidit. Isn’t that just precious? It’s just so superior to Godidit. Somehow. I’m still trying to figure out the difference between chancedidit and godidit. Help me out there. Or how about if we both just forget about imaginary scenarios and focus on what can be demonstrated? As criminal investigator Sgt. Joe Friday on Dragnet famously said when interviewing witnesses, “Just the facts please.” We’re all waiting for an experimental demonstration that chance & necessity can build complex biological structures like the bacflag. Good luck with that. In the meantime we’ve already demonstrated that intelligent agents with expertise in biochemistry can purposely alter DNA with custom designed sequences - it’s called genetic engineering.

If you want to know who designed the designer we’ve figured that out too. Who designed the designer is the same agency that created the material in materialism. Isn’t this fun? It’s hard to believe evolutionary biologists get away with pretending their woolgathering isn’t fiction, getting paid to make it up as they go along, and teach it to the gullible like its proven fact just as well tested as gravity. What a joke.


Will Winston try to respond to this nonsense, or give it all up as a bad show?  Time will tell.

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2008,00:16   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 08 2008,16:16)
The current headline at UD:

Quote
Sarah Palin Unlikely to Push Evolution Issue
was ‘Creation Science Enters the Race’


that word salad wasn't written by Denyse, is the weird part.



Linky

Hope you saved a copy because as of 12:10am CDT, it's 404ed.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2008,00:24   

of course I did save the post. I know how these idiots operate:

Quote
8 September 2008
Sarah Palin Unlikely to Push Evolution Issue was ‘Creation Science Enters the Race’
LeeBowman

No sooner was Sarah Palin’s candidacy announced, than the Anchorage Daily republished an October 2006 article giving highlights of the then gubernatorial race between three candidates, Palin being one.

Almost immediately, the paper has been deluged with request for comments, interviews, and transcripts to feed the frenzy, keeping their editors and writers quite busy.

In short order, Rev. Barry Lynn, who along with Jay Sekulow plays tag regarding church and state issues in a mutual column on Beliefnet.com, responded thusly:

Quote


… it now seems clear the not only is Governor Sarah Palin historically challenged, but scientifically challenged as well.  A number of my pro-science colleagues have pointed out how “intelligent design” played a role in Palin’s gubernatorial campaign in Alaska.  Here are all of old stale misunderstandings by the now-Governor about science, good education and acting like students are supposed to be able to distinguish between religion masquerading as pseudoscience.



The blog posting HERE:

Sekulow responded:

Quote


Gubernatorial candidate Palin had simply stated that debate is important on the issue of evolution and we should not be afraid to discuss information that challenges the orthodox view.  Students should be free to question theories that are presented in class. Palin simply stated, “I don’t think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class.”


He went on to state that it was consistent with Edwards v. Aguillard, that if done properly it conformed to “secular intent”, and that the nation’s founders would have been receptive to it, under the “unalienable rights” clause.

The blog posting HERE:

Although a hot issue, institutions likely to be the most concerned (ACLU, NCSE, and Americans United for Separation of Church and State) have been largely silent on the issue.  That may change.  But in the meantime, a weekend article in the York Daily Record has come onboard stating:


Quote
   “Palin [is] unlikely to push [the] evolution issue.”

   “As far as I know, Gov. Palin has not been aggressive on this front,” Matt Olson, a biology professor at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks, said in an e-mail.

   “Up to now she has not pushed an agenda to teach creationism in public schools.”

   “Palin, a self-described “hard-core conservative,” hasn’t attempted to push her views about social issues into policy as governor.”

   “She has basically ignored social issues, period,” Gregg Erickson, an economist and columnist with the Alaska Budget Report told The Associated Press.”


Full article HERE:

So is Sarah Palin’s stance on teaching ‘Creationism’ a viable concern to the science community and their (and our) ’protectors’?  Will they rise up to defend the science standards and protecting the American way?  At best, the CS issue is in a dead heat with abortion, civil rights, energy & oil, and of course, whether Elk or Moose meat should replace beef on store shelves.  I have a feeling that the ‘creation issue’just may finish dead last.



1

BenK

09/08/2008

7:22 pm

I cannot understand how Americans can be concerned that teaching creationism might violate the founder’s intent that government be seperate from religion, and at the same time be comfortable with the idea that the education of their children ought to be an extention of the government.

Candidates for the presidency are concerned that they not be seen as anti-gun. How is there any consistency here - ‘They can’t take my guns, but they can take my children?’

Why does this make sense to Americans? How can a people consider themselves in any sense ‘free’ when the state dicates what will and will not be taught to their children?


   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2008,00:32   

BTW i recommend anyone who's interesting in UD to frequently save any and all UD pages. They like nothing better than to delete their huge mistakes, and by saving them, you help show the world what idiots post there.

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2008,01:48   

I can't figure out why they 404'd that thread.  It's not extraordinarily dumb, at least by UD standards.

Here's a theory: textual analysis may very well point to LeeBowman being Denyse O'Leary in drag.  Notice how you never see the two of them posting at the same time?

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2008,04:18   

The stupid in full, saved from the 404
 
Quote
Sarah Palin Unlikely to Push Evolution Issue was ‘Creation Science Enters the Race’
Uncommon Descent - Mon, 2008-09-08 20:57

No sooner was Sarah Palin’s candidacy announced, than the Anchorage Daily republished an October 2006 article giving highlights of the then gubernatorial race between three candidates, Palin being one.

Almost immediately, the paper has been deluged with request for comments, interviews, and transcripts to feed the frenzy, keeping their editors and writers quite busy.

In short order, Rev. Barry Lynn, who along with Jay Sekulow plays tag regarding church and state issues in a mutual column on Beliefnet.com, responded thusly:

… it now seems clear the not only is Governor Sarah Palin historically challenged, but scientifically challenged as well.  A number of my pro-science colleagues have pointed out how “intelligent design” played a role in Palin’s gubernatorial campaign in Alaska.  Here are all of old stale misunderstandings by the now-Governor about science, good education and acting like students are supposed to be able to distinguish between religion masquerading as pseudoscience.

The blog posting HERE:

Sekulow responded:

Gubernatorial candidate Palin had simply stated that debate is important on the issue of evolution and we should not be afraid to discuss information that challenges the orthodox view.  Students should be free to question theories that are presented in class. Palin simply stated, “I don’t think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class.”

He went on to state that it was consistent with Edwards v. Aguillard, that if done properly it conformed to “secular intent”, and that the nation’s founders would have been receptive to it, under the “unalienable rights” clause.

The blog posting HERE:

Although a hot issue, institutions likely to be the most concerned (ACLU, NCSE, and Americans United for Separation of Church and State) have been largely silent on the issue.  That may change.  But in the meantime, a weekend article in the York Daily Record has come onboard stating:

“Palin [is] unlikely to push [the] evolution issue.”

“As far as I know, Gov. Palin has not been aggressive on this front,” Matt Olson, a biology professor at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks, said in an e-mail.

“Up to now she has not pushed an agenda to teach creationism in public schools.”

“Palin, a self-described “hard-core conservative,” hasn’t attempted to push her views about social issues into policy as governor.”

“She has basically ignored social issues, period,” Gregg Erickson, an economist and columnist with the Alaska Budget Report told The Associated Press.”

Full article HERE:

So is Sarah Palin’s stance on teaching ‘Creationism’ a viable concern to the science community and their (and our) ’protectors’?  Will they rise up to defend the science standards and protecting the American way?  At best, the CS issue is in a dead heat with abortion, civil rights, energy & oil, and of course, whether Elk or Moose meat should replace beef on store shelves.  I have a feeling that the ‘creation issue’ just may finish dead last.


EDIT: I see Steve has more or less the same.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2008,18:43   

Quote (CeilingCat @ Sep. 09 2008,00:16)
Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 08 2008,16:16)
The current headline at UD:

 
Quote
Sarah Palin Unlikely to Push Evolution Issue
was ‘Creation Science Enters the Race’


that word salad wasn't written by Denyse, is the weird part.



Linky

Hope you saved a copy because as of 12:10am CDT, it's 404ed.

It's Back! And appears unchanged.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2008,19:11   

The comment from BenK is gone though. LOL maybe they used us for the backup.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2008,19:19   

UD lost several posts actually:

*Pre-Game Coin Toss

*Trinity College Dublin Debate on Evolution, Creation, & Materialism: October 16, 2008

and the Palin one which has been restored.

Hey Davetard / Dembski: if you would like copies of your two missing posts, I can get them for you.

   
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