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Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,04:42   

Gee, Dave, you ignored MY response to you, and now you're somehow claiming MY words proved YOUR argument? Aren't you Christian types supposed to NOT LIE?

Dave, you haven't proved anything. Some French people in Portugal does not prove that Portuguese is a 'mix of French and Spanish'. I asked you for evidence that this was the case and you produced nothing. Real evidence would be French grammatical elements found in Portuguese and not Spanish. Didn't happen.

Your vague impressions of what Portuguese sounds like does not prove anything. People with actual training in linguistics agree that the phonetic developments separating Portuguese from Spanish are INDEPENDENT of French. At most, Portuguese acquired some French loanwords in the 18th century and later (after the Brazilian/European Portuguese split! ) that every other western European language has.  If you think that is evidence that Portuguese is a mix of Spanish and French, then it also means that English is a mix of French, Latin, Spanish, Greek, etc. No linguist would say that, because borrowings do not make a mixed language.

So basically, you're wrong, Dave. We know you came here to missionize, but you're giving people here a dismal impression of Christians as  ignorant, dishonest, irrational, and arrogant.

And please do not claim that my words prove your argument. There are times when knowledge IS more important than attitude, Dave.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,04:44   

So Daveey, does this mean you are taking my bet?

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Chris Hyland



Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,04:44   

Quote
I'm going back to more productive arguments.
Good good. Perhaps it would be productive if you could list your main problems with the theory of evolution and then we could help. This seems to be what your other post is leading to anyway, but we might as well get it over and done with.

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,04:50   

Ah, the Cordova Cockstrut continues. I don't personally know Rilke's Granddaughter, so I can't call myself a friend. But I and several others have pointed out that you haven't presented a single piece of evidence that there's any significant French in Portuguese. Faid, in fact, just listed several what-look-like fairly authoritative articles on the language that would surely have mentioned it, if it were real. So when you say RGD is all alone in challenging you, what the fork are you talking about?

Now my curiosity is piqued. You claimed  
Quote
if you get a good Medieval History Encyclopedia, you can get all kinds of details about this period in history when Portuguese and Spanish diverged.  What you will see is massive Burgundian influence beginning with the influx of thousands of Burgundian knights
I would have no reason to doubt this. It still doesn't prove your point about the language, and Arden Chatfield only allowed that a massive French influence would be necessary, not sufficient to leave a significant linguistic footprint. But, again, I would have no reason to doubt it, except for the fact that you stated it, and you have an unbroken record for being wrong. So I'm going to check it out, and report back. See you then!

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,04:55   

Quote
Gee, Dave, you ignored MY response to you, and now you're somehow claiming MY words proved YOUR argument?


Your response was irrelevant.  And yes, YOUR words showed the validity of my argument.

Thanks for the help!

(Oh, and if you think Christians are not tough in their speech sometimes, go read the New Testament and see how tough Jesus spoke to the Pharisees. This is a common misconception that Christians are somehow supposed to be Casper Milktoast or something.  Or how about the founders of this country? ... you want talk about some tough talking Christians!;)

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,05:00   

So Davey, are you a\taking my bet? You do know that the founders weren't exactly christian right?

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,05:02   

Quote (afdave @ May 22 2006,09:55)
Quote
Gee, Dave, you ignored MY response to you, and now you're somehow claiming MY words proved YOUR argument?


Your response was irrelevant.  And yes, YOUR words showed the validity of my argument.

Thanks for the help!

(Oh, and if you think Christians are not tough in their speech sometimes, go read the New Testament and see how tough Jesus spoke to the Pharisees. This is a common misconception that Christians are somehow supposed to be Casper Milktoast or something.  Or how about the founders of this country? ... you want talk about some tough talking Christians!;)

So here we have Dave's response when backed into a corner and losing -- declare all counterarguments 'irrelevant'  and declare victory. This is the same way he's 'proved' Noah's Flood and a Young Earth.

Dave, if my counterarguments are 'irrelevant', why do all the experts disagree with you ONCE AGAIN? Does their superior level of knowledge make them LESS qualified to make judgements on these things?

Seriously, Dave -- when Christians act like this, it makes a dismal impression.

I'm not saying Christians aren't supposed to be tough -- but what I am saying is that they're not supposed to be liars. You, uh, haven't done well in that regard.

I bet Dave isn't showing this site to his wife and kids anymore.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,05:10   

Quote (Russell @ May 22 2006,09:50)
Now my curiosity is piqued. You claimed    
Quote
if you get a good Medieval History Encyclopedia, you can get all kinds of details about this period in history when Portuguese and Spanish diverged.  What you will see is massive Burgundian influence beginning with the influx of thousands of Burgundian knights
I would have no reason to doubt this. It still doesn't prove your point about the language, and Arden Chatfield only allowed that a massive French influence would be necessary, not sufficient to leave a significant linguistic footprint. But, again, I would have no reason to doubt it, except for the fact that you stated it, and you have an unbroken record for being wrong. So I'm going to check it out, and report back. See you then!

Correct, it is a necessary condition to a massive French influence on Portuguese, but not sufficient. A large no. of foreign language speakers moving into a country is not usually sufficient to change the host language at all. It's quite common for this sort of thing to happen without the language changing. For example, there are a huge number of Spanish speakers in the American southwest, and aside from some Spanish loanwords, English as spoken there is basically unaffected by it. Dave hasn't shown the necessary massive, continued bilingualism necessary here. And in a way, it doesn't matter, since what's important is what the languages are like, and the Portuguese language does not show anything more than minor French influence.

Dave's refusal to admit a mistake here is remarkable. His own ego seems to be much more important to him than representing Christians in a favorable light.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,05:21   

1/2-a-Dave, if you had another brain it would be lonely.

Are you taking my bet?

You are aware that the founders of this country weren't exactly christian, right? You just made that statement because you're not quite as smart as bait, right?

Tell me again why the Appalachians are low and smooth while the himalayas are high and craggy? And, I need a blueprint for your brain; I'm trying to build an idiot.

You don't know my old professor do you? He was conducting some experiments in Artificial Stupidity and the results sound a lot like you.

Are you taking my bet?

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,05:24   

[deja vu]

Hey Dave, did you check my links yet? You must have, since you asked for them...

So, I take it you saw how everyone agrees that:
-Portuguese has it's origins directly in Vulgar Latin
-Is, in fact, the closest language to Latin after Italian
-It was formed gradually (as Galician-Portuguese) during the early Middle Ages and on to the Arab occupation, separately -and spoken in a different location- than Castillian (that would lead to Spanish)
-Galician-Portuguese (not Spanish, and certainly NOT
French) became the official Language of the newfound kingdom
-Galician and Portuguese later diverged, and Portuguese began to resemble more its modern form
-The FIRST substantial French influence to the language came in the 18th century, leading to al the differences between, say, Portuguese and Brazilian.


Well, now that you've read all that (and I'm sure you have) I suppose you can start proving why all these people are totally wrong, and the European history of Languages has to be rewritten, right?

[/deja vu]

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,05:36   

Quote (Faid @ May 22 2006,10:24)
[deja vu]

Hey Dave, did you check my links yet? You must have, since you asked for them...

So, I take it you saw how everyone agrees that:
-Portuguese has it's origins directly in Vulgar Latin
-Is, in fact, the closest language to Latin after Italian
-It was formed gradually (as Galician-Portuguese) during the early Middle Ages and on to the Arab occupation, separately -and spoken in a different location- than Castillian (that would lead to Spanish)
-Galician-Portuguese (not Spanish, and certainly NOT
French) became the official Language of the newfound kingdom
-Galician and Portuguese later diverged, and Portuguese began to resemble more its modern form
-The FIRST substantial French influence to the language came in the 18th century, leading to al the differences between, say, Portuguese and Brazilian.


Well, now that you've read all that (and I'm sure you have) I suppose you can start proving why all these people are totally wrong, and the European history of Languages has to be rewritten, right?

[/deja vu]

Slightly off track, the Brazilian versus European Portuguese thing here is interesting. A couple websites have stated that most French loanwords in Portuguese are in European Portuguese but not Brazilian Portuguese. This is like saying that a big foreign influence was present in British English but not American English. Given that European and Brazilian Portuguese are still unquestionably mutually intelligible, and the same language, this indicates that in real linguistic terms the French influence on Portuguese is actually quite recent and rather superficial. Certainly nowhere near enough for Portuguese to be a 'mix' of Spanish and French.

Actually, there are ways in which Brazilian Portuguese is both more conservative and less conservative than European Portuguese. Brazilian does retain some elements of pronunciation that European Portuguese once had but has since lost. But this is normal. The same holds true of American versus British English, in that there are archaisms in American English that British English lost, as well.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,05:42   

And certainly not responsible for the creation of the language from Spanish...

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,05:48   

comment redacted because it was a response to a months-old post I erroneously thought was fresh.

   
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,05:50   

Quote (afdave @ May 22 2006,09:28)
Rilke--  You crashed and burned, and even your friends cannot defend you on this one.  What better expert do you need than your friend, Arden Chatfield who has a PhD in linguistics?  Here is what he said ...

Sorry, Dave. It's not Rilke who crashed and burned. As she pointed out to you, nothing you've said has established that Portuguese is a mixture of Spanish and French.  Mr. Chatfield's statement doesn't help you, because French "influence" in Portugal is a necessary, but hardly sufficient, precondition for Portuguese to be a "mixture" of French and Spanish.

And just so Dave knows, folks: let's take a little poll. Who here believes that Dave has established the truth of his original assertion: that Portuguese is "Spanish and French mixed"?

Then we can put this one to bed.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,05:55   

Quote (Faid @ May 22 2006,10:42)
And certainly not responsible for the creation of the language from Spanish...

Correct. Spanish and Portuguese apparently started to diverge noticeably around the 12th century. The Portuguese didn't colonize Brazil til around 600 years after that, I think, by which time Portuguese was definitely a well defined language.

It's also a big mistake to think of Portuguese just diverging from Spanish and Spanish staying the same all that time. The whole time Portuguese was becoming Portuguese, Spanish was also undergoing its own important changes as well. From what I gather, Portuguese is actually MORE conservative than Spanish in terms of grammar and morphology. To say that Portuguese is descended from Spanish is exactly the same as saying humans are descended from chimpanzees. In fact, Portuguese and Spanish are both descended from Proto-Iberian Romance, which was not the same as any language spoken now.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,06:12   

Darnit darnit darnit darnit. You are giving away the farm. THere is still the off off off off chance that the only man to push IQ into negative integers would allow me to write a post on his blog.

But this is facinating. All of 1/2-a-dave's posts are now language lessons.

OK, I assume doofus won't take my bet. I also may be giving him too much credit (can you imagine?)

Judging by his dates, I have to guess that, if he were to trot out evidence (which he indeed might not have been going to), it would have been the Auto de Partilhas. As far as I know, this is the first document written in what could be called vernacular portuguese. I think it comes from 1150-80?? ish. I assume his argument would have traced the vocabulary to it's "French" origins. I bet I could trace it to it's "Latin" origins more convincingly. Also, I would have forced definitions of French and Spanish that I believe would have confused and confounded our man with too many yards between his goalposts. I was hoping to do that part too. Also, either way, I win.

Also, as was mentioned earlier, Despite the Norman invasion, English maintained it's basic syntax and borrowed essentially just vocabulary from the french invaders. However, the French words we got are a little closer to latin than modern french maybe. Arden?

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Rilke's Granddaughter



Posts: 311
Joined: Jan. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,06:28   

What's most amusing about Dave at the moment is the fact that he's struggling so badly making an argument: the accuracy of his original statement having been swiftly and thoroughly shown to be non-existent.

Let's consider: what would it take to show that Portuguese is a mixture of French and Spanish?

Option 1) A linguistic history of the language showing that it had developed from these two other tongues.

Unfortunately option 1 is eliminated because these languages did not exist when Portuguese developed.

Option 2) Show, by linguistic analysis, that Portuguese is comprised of an admixture of French and Spanish vocabulary; French and Spanish grammar; and French and Spanish pronunciation.

Unfortunately, option 2 is eliminated because Dave can't actually show those things.

Now Dave, we realize that you can continue to make yourself look like a fool by persisting in your inability to admit that your first statement was idiotically wrong; your second statement a cover-up AND idiotically wrong; and your continuing statements a cover-up, irrelevant, AND idiotically wrong.

Or you can demonstrate some intellectual credibility and Christian ethics by admitting that you were mistaken, that you lied, and that you're ignorant.

Feel free to start any time.  

Remember - we are trying to help you.  I know that arguments and discussion with adults can be trying and hard, but if you just persevere and do your homework, you'll be ready for it!

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,06:28   

Quote

Also, as was mentioned earlier, Despite the Norman invasion, English maintained it's basic syntax and borrowed essentially just vocabulary from the french invaders. However, the French words we got are a little closer to latin than modern french maybe.


Right, by far most of the big French influence on English was lexical, and most of it took place 600-800 years ago. Some of the French words English borrowed look more like Old French rather than modern French. A good example is that when most of these French words entered English, French still kept old Latin 'st'. So English has French loanwords like 'beast' and 'feast', with 'st', while French subsequently deleted 's' before 't', which is why modern French now has 'bete' and 'fete' (sorry, I don't know how to make the accents work).

English is also very grammatically simplified compared to most of Germanic, but the current consensus is that the grammatical simplification English underwent was not due to the Norman invasions, but was in fact the result of the NORSE invasions a couple centuries before that, when large numbers of Norse speakers invaded eastern England. That invasion also left a large layer of (Norse) loanwords, including some very basic words like 'they' and 'egg'.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,07:08   

Quote
And just so Dave knows, folks: let's take a little poll. Who here believes that Dave has established the truth of his original assertion: that Portuguese is "Spanish and French mixed"?
I suppose that, given the way this is worded, one could take lack of response as a vote against dave. But I'll make it explicit: I, for one, don't believe he has even begun to establish it.

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,07:12   

I haven't seen AFDave be right about anything. And I think he's lost some confidence lately, from being shown to be so wrong, so frequently.

   
normdoering



Posts: 287
Joined: July 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,07:29   

Quote (Russell @ May 22 2006,12:08)
Quote
And just so Dave knows, folks: let's take a little poll. Who here believes that Dave has established the truth of his original assertion: that Portuguese is "Spanish and French mixed"?
I suppose that, given the way this is worded, one could take lack of response as a vote against dave. But I'll make it explicit: I, for one, don't believe he has even begun to establish it.

I think all languages are constantly mixed.

We english speakers use a lot of latin in science and academics -- for example: ad absurdum, a phrase that describes afdave's arguments is basically latin. As is and does ad infinitum and ad nauseam.

Aficionado is Spanish and angst is German.

That's just a tiny tip  off the iceberg.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,07:41   

Quote (normdoering @ May 22 2006,12:29)
 
Quote (Russell @ May 22 2006,12:08)
 
Quote
And just so Dave knows, folks: let's take a little poll. Who here believes that Dave has established the truth of his original assertion: that Portuguese is "Spanish and French mixed"?
I suppose that, given the way this is worded, one could take lack of response as a vote against dave. But I'll make it explicit: I, for one, don't believe he has even begun to establish it.

I think all languages are constantly mixed.

We english speakers use a lot of latin in science and academics -- for example: ad absurdum, a phrase that describes afdave's arguments is basically latin. As is and does ad infinitum and ad nauseam.

Aficionado is Spanish and angst is German.

That's just a tiny tip  off the iceberg.

Well sure, probably every language in the world has loanwords. Some have lots more than others. Japanese and English are especially uninhibited about borrowing words from other languages. But it's a matter of degree. There is a whole spectrum of possible influence one language can have on another, from just words, to pronunciation, to morphology, to syntax. The degree of 'mixing' between English and French could have gone a lot further, in that it didn't go much past borrowed words. That is, it didn't have much of an influence on English grammar.

There actually IS a linguistic concept of a 'mixed language', and when one sees one of those, you see huge influences in grammar, word order, pronunciation -- influences seeping through at all levels. A good example of this is Vietnamese, which is actually an Austroasiatic language, and thus related to Khmer, but it underwent such a massive influence from neighboring (unrelated) language families like Tai and Chinese that it quit looking much at all like an Austroasiatic language, acquiring tone and making all its words monosyllabic. In fact, its Austroasiatic affinity was hidden for decades because of this, and was only discovered in the middle of the 20th century. That's much closer to being a 'mixed language', and there are other languages that are even better examples.

But I agree, no language is 'pure' or exists in a vacuum.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
normdoering



Posts: 287
Joined: July 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,08:05   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ May 22 2006,12:41)
But I agree, no language is 'pure' or exists in a vacuum.

A little fact that let afdave try to move the goal posts on you guys.

I suggest you drop the whole language argument and next time nail down the goal posts so he can't move them. For example, before we argue about kinds we have to get afdave to clearly define them... to nail down  where creationisms predictive goal posts are.

  
jeannot



Posts: 1201
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,08:14   

Yes Dave, we'd like to hear your thoughts about 'kinds'. Are kinds and species the same?

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,08:43   

Quote (jeannot @ May 22 2006,13:14)
Yes Dave, we'd like to hear your thoughts about 'kinds'. Are kinds and species the same?

I predict that "kinds" will end up being somewhere between species and kingdoms (because, like, where else would they be?).

I also predict they won't be in the same place for all organisms. Bacteria will be one "kind" (covering an entire superclade), but humans (a species) will be another "kind."

Bunnies, kittens, and bluejays will also, of course, be individual "kinds."

But my final prediction is that there will be no rhyme or reason, taxonomically, to how Dave divides organisms up into "kinds."

(I'm also really interested to see where Dave puts penisworms into his classification scheme. Just because, well, it will be humorous on a totally sophomoric level.)

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
Rilke's Granddaughter



Posts: 311
Joined: Jan. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,09:00   

Quote (normdoering @ May 22 2006,13:05)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ May 22 2006,12:41)
But I agree, no language is 'pure' or exists in a vacuum.

A little fact that let afdave try to move the goal posts on you guys.

I suggest you drop the whole language argument and next time nail down the goal posts so he can't move them. For example, before we argue about kinds we have to get afdave to clearly define them... to nail down  where creationisms predictive goal posts are.

But as with most fundies, his 'arguments' are simply not sufficiently coherent to 'pin down'; they are just a mush of cut-n-paste goo from fundie sources. Nothing to get a handle on, because no real content.  ;)

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,16:24   

Well, well, well.
How revealing 1/2 a D 'claims victory' shades of MP's Black Knight there is no finer example of a deluded mind denying facts, reason and honesty.
The other observation I have is the methodology employed by 1/2 a D vs the 'crew'.

It would seem that everyone except D/2 did some basic research and did not overstep their own ability. How in this day with so much information available on line, one could honestly make such a mistake lead me to conclude that D/2 is more mendacious than ignorant.

Considering we are graced with the presence of a PhD in linguistics whose knowledge, skills, professionalism and yes one could reasonably conclude proven honesty in the field of linguistics due to his qualifications; I for one would not be rushing to claim 'victory' over a foolish statement based on listening to kitchen conversations with my family and friends and one tiny snippet of European history.

It's clear to me D/2  has not the faintest knowledge of the history of language development and does not seem to have studied first hand any Romance Language.
I studied Latin and French at high school for 3 years and would not rush to make any such claims.

However, I would claim that one can not truly understand ones own language without studying another related language. The structure of my mother tongue, English was completely opaque until I found that Latin and French use different object,subject,verb structures masculine and feminine forms, verb conjugation, just to name the trivial differences. Seeing the Latin root word and it's French and English cousins and the subtle shift in meanings, in the raw if you like, help with forming a more sophisticated world view of history and cultural imperatives.
Particularly with regard to understanding what a world view actually is.

As someone once said “We know water was discovered by someone or something but we can be very sure it wasn't a fish”.

1/2 a D is literally swimming in ignorance, that is, a lack of even a basic education in western culture and I would argue an impotence in acquiring any useful knowledge simply because he lacks the ability to critically examine any information regardless of its sources.

Why? Fundamentalism does not test the truth you are told what to think, just take orders and execute like a good soldier, no critical thinking needed or desired, in fact it is crushed and removed from the adherent WHEN THEY ARE CHILREN by professional lying liars.

The scientific method and its test for truth (Darwinism) is Fundamentalism's enemy and is thus the enemy of education,knowledge,truth, honesty and mankind's collected wisdom.

1/2 a Dave is just Fundy cannon fodder, he's had his brains turned to mush.

He is incapable of telling himself what is true and what is not, because he believes a lie is true.

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,17:07   

Shhh. He's logged in. He'll hear you.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Rilke's Granddaughter



Posts: 311
Joined: Jan. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,17:14   

Quote (BWE @ May 22 2006,22:07)
Shhh. He's logged in. He'll hear you.

I doubt it.  He's too dumb to notice.

But I do think that 2nd Lt. Dave is the funniest poster we've got.  Funnier that Carol.  Funnier that Larry.  Funnier than... well, that guy who's crazy about boneless things.

  
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 22 2006,18:26   

wow.

Although I can reasonably predict he won't be, Dave should be proud of that.

I don't think he (can) grasp how many have come before him, and just how idiotic they all have been.

To be labeled "funniest" is quite a compliment.  Really.

Now if he knew the definition of self-deprecating humor, it would truly be funny, rather than pathetic and sad.

For example, gawp CAN be funny, and he occasionally sees that.

Dave is incapable of being funny intentionally, and can't begin to see why we think his responses are humorous anyway.

oh well, the show must go on.

Ohhh Daveyyyyy!

5 minutes to curtain Mr. Dave, 5 minutes...

  
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