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  Topic: AFDave Wants You to Prove Evolution to Him< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,13:49   

Quote
So when you said the guy was living in 1143, and it turns out he'd been dead 31 years, you were being 'ambiguous'? Lemme help you with some definitions


That's not what I said, Steve.  Lemme help you with some reading comprehension ...

I made an ambiguous statement, the detail of which that you are highliting doesn't matter a whit for my argument, and you know it.  But go ahead and dodge the bullet if you want to.  I've come to expect this kind of thing ...

Let's how creative other people can be in dodging the bullet.  Toejam's weighed in ... others?

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,13:53   

I don't dodge rubber bullets, dave.

wait, let me correct that.

I don't dodge nerf bullets, dave.

there, that's better.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,13:56   

Quote
Oh really?  How much money do you want to risk that I'm wrong?  Here's the specific statement that I am defending:

1)  AF Dave says that Spanish and Portuguese were essentially the same language until 1143 AD when Portugal broke away from Spanish control under a French nobleman by the name of Henry of Burgundy.  From this point on, the languages diverged into the modern situation.  The primary influence on the linguistic divergence was the French language.
Not ambiguous. Wrong.

   
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,13:59   

Quote
AF Dave says that Spanish and Portuguese were essentially the same language until 1143 AD when Portugal broke away from Spanish control under a French nobleman by the name of Henry of Burgundy.
I'm not about to get into a hair-splitting contest over what  "essentially the same language" means, when we're talking about a family of Romance languages/dialects in the process of, yes, evolving. There is nothing "ambiguous", though, about your contention that Henry of Burgundy was alive and kicking in 1143.

Getting back to the earlier point, though, you apparently contend that:  
Quote
phonetically Portuguese is somewhat closer to Catalan or to French.
is equivalent to  
Quote
Portuguese (which of course is Spanish and French mixed).
... and you think it's "arrogant" to think otherwise?

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one. But you have a nice time in church tomorrow regaling your fellow fundies with tales of how you showed those infidels!

--------------
Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,14:01   

Quote

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one.
LOL

   
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,14:04   

could you provide a caption Steve?  I don't recognize the reference.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,14:07   

That's because you're a philistine, and haven't seen the most important film of our time.




   
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,14:23   

Quote
... and you think it's "arrogant" to think otherwise?
I didn't say it's arrogant to think otherwise.

I said it's arrogant to call people idiots when you don't know what you are talking about, which is what Rilke did.

You might want to review her litany ...

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,14:25   

well, i certainly recognize the second picture.  

Does it count if i say I've seen that movie half a dozen times?

forgive me if my memory of every scene isn't perfect.  My memory rarely is any more.

oh, and can i have my stapler back?

  
normdoering



Posts: 287
Joined: July 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,14:27   

Quote (afdave @ May 20 2006,19:23)
I said it's arrogant to call people idiots when you don't know what you are talking about, which is what Rilke did.

Well, the pot just called the kettle black.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,14:28   

Quote
BOB SLYDELL
Here's a peculiar one. Milton Waddams.

DOM
Who's he?

BOB
You know, squirrely looking guy, mumbles a lot.

DOM
Oh.

BOB SLYDELL
We can't find a record of him being a current employee here.

BOB PORTER
I looked into it more deeply and I found what happened was he got layed
off about five years ago and no one ever told him about it. But through
a glitch in Payroll, he still gets a paycheck. I went ahead and fixed
the glitch.

BILL
Great.

DOM
So, um, Milton has been let go.

BOB SLYDELL
Just a second there, Professor. We, uh, we fixed the glitch. So he
won't be receiving a paycheck anymore. So it'll just work itself out
naturally.

BOB PORTER
We always like to avoid confrontation whenever possible. The problem is
solved from here on, then.

They laugh.

BOB SLYDELL
Uh, we should move on to a Peter Gibbons. I had a chance to meet this
young man and boy does he have Straight to Upper Management written all
over him.

BILL
Ooh, uh, yeah. I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of disagree with
you there. Yeah. Uh, he's been real flaky lately and I'm not sure that
he's the caliber person you want for upper management. He's been having
some problems with his TPS reports.

   
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,14:29   

put away your nerf gun, Dave.  You're killin' us.

I'm bleeding foam blood.

Yup, Dave gives definition to a new term:

the Nerf Driveby.

  
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,15:43   

Quote
But you have a nice time in church tomorrow regaling your fellow fundies with tales of how you showed those infidels!

I don't think you or anyone else is an 'infidel.'

I'm sure you're all good people.

I just disagree with you over Origins ... that's all.

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,15:49   

that's ALL?

Dave pulls out his Nerf AK47...

Look, Dave.  It's obvious you just don't get it.

You don't just disagree, you project, you deny, and you rationalize based on that, but you don't actually debate.

Norm's right in one sense, you DO act like you come from a different planet, where rational argument is apparently based on nothing more than perception without observable evidence.

again, i say to you; you ARE suffering a form of psychological malady, and you do both yourself and your children serious harm by attempting to maintain it without treatment, or even recognition.

When your kids grow up, they'll have the same problems as you do, unless you recognize your own mental blockages and allow them to move beyond you.

having taught at the college level, I can truthfully say I've seen what happens to kids of folks like yourself on many occassions; trying to deal with the non-reality you impose on them when they get to college causes them no end of grief.

Is that really what you want for your kids, Dave?

Again, this has nothing to do with your religion.  It has everything to do with how you project the worldview you created around it onto your kids.  Really, not ALL xians, or even most, think like you do.  Take Ken Miller for one example, Wesley Elseberry for another, and there are many more here in the same boat.  They have no problems accepting the mountains of evidence for ToE, and no problems utlizing the same evidence in order to further our knowledge.

Don't hold your kids, or those around you, hostage to your maladies, Dave.  Let them move beyond your messed-up head.

  
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,16:12   

Steve Story said ...
Quote
Not ambiguous. Wrong.


**gasp**  can't let this Creo have a victory  **sigh**

**oooohh my head** gotta find somethin' he screwed up

( @#$%&*@%$#  I think I broke my leg when he cut off that branch $%#&^*%$# )

** ooooh *** lemme see if I can split some hairs and nail him on something .... anything!!!!!!  ****eeeeoooh***

(Somebody help me!!!;)

Hey BWE ... thanks for offering to pay up when you lost a bet ...  no need to really pay up though

Oh ... and you can call me an idiot anytime you want to because at least you're funny while you do it ...

Hey Toejam ... I remember something about you promising to become a Creo if you saw me win an argument on an unrelated topic ...

Come on, baby ... pay up!

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,16:18   

Quote
Hey Toejam ... I remember something about you promising to become a Creo if you saw me win an argument on an unrelated topic ...


not even close to anything i ever said.

really, put away your nerf gun dave.  you're scaring the cat.

Please tell us you were lying about having kids?

as to your wanting a victory... i already asked you to point me to a debate where you had some background knowledge to begin with, like someplace you debated a topic on electrical engineering, say.  Apparently, you can't even show us any time or place where there is some record of you having argued anything in a rational fashion, based on you actually having some knowledge of the subject material yourself.

you want a victory?  show us one.  anywhere.



I have a new proposition:

as far as i can tell, the evidence is that kids of folks whose mind works like Dave's are far more messed up as adults than adopted kids of gay parents.

I say we make it illegal for creos to marry.  It definetly sullied the institution of marriage, and the results are definetly a drag on society at large.

It's like letting serial killers marry and assuming their kids won't grow up the same way.

whaddya think, Dave?  time for a divorce?  You already divorced yourself from reality at some point.  Why not keep up the trend?

  
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,16:28   

Quote
Please tell us you were lying about having kids?
Got 5 already ... planning on 5 more ... I'm telling you ... we're taking over the Planet ...







(just kidding about the 5 more)

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,16:32   

that's way more scary than any attempt at argument you have made so far.

I'm not kidding.  

Let them move beyond you.

You'll be doing them a grand favor.

the best you possibly could.  Better than giving them anything else they could possibly ask for from you.

You'll give them a chance to see the world through open eyes, rather than closed ones.

...and no, it's not us whose eyes are closed, Dave.

ask anybody you know who doesn't think like you do to examine your "debate" here and judge whose eyes are open to the evidence, and whose are not.

really.  You're nuts.  It's OK, many of us are, but don't inflict it on your kids.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,17:08   

Atheists like myself prefer our christians to be YECs like Dave. Because if any of his kids is oriented towards science, the kid will probably, in his late teens, realize his dad's notions w/r/t science are loony-tunes, and that kid will ask himself, "If dad's so utterly wrong about that, and he was motivated by the bible..." and the blinders will fall off.

   
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,17:19   

In the meantime, the kids are exposed for years to the kind of thinking processes Dave exhibits so profusely here.

I don't share your optimism that a lot of kids can simply shrug off years of exposure to this crap (and the fact that the numbers of folks who think like Dave hasn't actually changed much in over 20 years in the US also supports this - see the data in that Nat. Geo article from Nov. 2005).

In fact, while a few do, a lot simply don't, or only are able to partially in my experience, and that limits how well they can do in fields like science, where crtical thinking and logic are extremely important.

If Dave feels fine with limiting his kids roles, there's no law stopping him, but it still pains that there will be another 5 kids having to deal with what essentially is no better than the mindset of an alcoholic.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,17:20   

Quote (stevestory @ May 20 2006,19:07)
That's because you're a philistine, and haven't seen the most important film of our time.




"PC load letter? What the fuck does that mean?"

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,17:25   

Peter Gibbons: What would you do if you had a million dollars?
Lawrence: I'll tell you what I'd do, man, two chicks at the same time, man.
Peter Gibbons: That's it? If you had a million dollars, you'd do two chicks at the same time?
Lawrence: #### straight. I always wanted to do that, man. And I think if I had a million dollars I could hook that up, cause chicks dig a dude with money.
Peter Gibbons: Well, not all chicks.
Lawrence: Well the kind of chicks that'd double up on a dude like me do.
Peter Gibbons: Good point.
Lawrence: Well what about you now? what would you do?
Peter Gibbons: Besides two chicks at the same time?
Lawrence: Well yeah.
Peter Gibbons: Nothing.
Lawrence: Nothing, huh?
Peter Gibbons: I'd relax, I would sit on my ass all day, I would do nothing.
Lawrence: Well you don't need a million dollars to do nothing, man. Just take a look at my cousin, he's broke, don't do shit.


--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
normdoering



Posts: 287
Joined: July 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,17:26   

Quote (sir_toejam @ May 20 2006,22:19)
I don't share your optimism that a lot of kids can simply shrug off years of exposure to this crap ...

I grew up in a similar environment:
http://www.textfiles.com/occult/notcrst1.txt
http://www.textfiles.com/occult/notcrst2.txt

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,17:33   

Quote
Hey Toejam ... I remember something about you promising to become a Creo if you saw me win an argument on an unrelated topic ...
Did I miss something? Did afdave win an argument on something? Did he, in fact, prove that Portuguese is a mixture of Spanish and French? Or that Henry of Burgundy peeled Portugal off the Spanish in 1143? Or perhaps that there is an argument to be made whereby "common design" could explain the Vitamin C story? What did I miss?

--------------
Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,17:38   

Interesting.  still reading it, but had a couple of questions, if you don't mind?

How old were you when you wrote this?

What were you doing (in your life) when you wrote this?

How close are the ideas presented to what your ideas are now?


just curious.

thanks

and Russel -

you didn't miss a thing but more incorrect assumptions, presumptions, and projection from Dave.

so, IOW, you missed nothing.

I'm sure it will all get repeated tommorrow.

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,17:40   

Perhaps it was his assertion, on one of these threads, that the U.S.A. was founded on the christian bible (IIRC).

By the way, afdave, it's perfectly all right to consider me an infidel. I believe it's technically accurate.

--------------
Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
sir_toejam



Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,17:44   

Quote
Perhaps it was his assertion, on one of these threads, that the U.S.A. was founded on the christian bible (IIRC).


I must have missed that one, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if he had.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,17:49   

Quote (sir_toejam @ May 20 2006,22:44)
Quote
Perhaps it was his assertion, on one of these threads, that the U.S.A. was founded on the christian bible (IIRC).


I must have missed that one, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if he had.

I think it's quite cunning of our Founding Fathers to have based this country on Biblical principles without once ever mentioning 'Jesus', 'Christianity', or 'the bible' in either the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.

Some day Dave will have to explain to me why they 'forgot' to mention those things.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
BWE



Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,18:01   

Quote
Hey BWE ... thanks for offering to pay up when you lost a bet ...  no need to really pay up though

Oh ... and you can call me an idiot anytime you want to because at least you're funny while you do it ...


I'll pay up gladly. Once I lose. Unless I am mistaken, I haven't offered anything to the debate yet. My question was. Are you taking me up on my revised bet?

Buddy, I don't mind losing but I like to play first.

And, as far as I can tell, you did, in a very small way, set a trap for people who were only too willing to believe you were an idiot in all you say. My hypothesis is that they are still right. Now, about that bet?

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2006,18:05   

The first commandment says you shall not have any other gods before you. The first amendment says you can have before you whatever god you want. I'll stick with that product of the Enlightenment, the first amendment, over that product of middle eastern primitives, the first commandment.

   
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