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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2013,16:26   

Quote (steve_h @ June 25 2013,14:09)
Quote (OgreMkV @ June 25 2013,18:02)
Is Sal about to get banned?

After this post, it seems likely: http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....ting-id

Of course, those are three OK reasons to reject ID.  I can think of much, much better ones.

oh noes, he made things even worse with Mafia style outing tactics
 
Quote
Very nice to hear from you Gordon

He's responding to Gordon Davisson (comment #13), not Gordon Gobshite O'Manjack.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
steve_h



Posts: 544
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2013,16:35   

Oops! That'll be me then.

  
Kantian Naturalist



Posts: 72
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2013,18:48   

What Murray conveniently (for him) fails to note is that "the stolen concept fallacy" was (from what I can tell) invented by Objectivists.  

I can sort of see why the Objectivists would like the idea -- it's a quick and dirty way of shutting down rational conversation with anyone who disagrees with you, by stipulating that the very fact of disagreement shows that they've left the bounds of rational conversation.  

I suppose cdesign proponentists would like it for the same reason; if someone disagrees with them, it can only be because that person is being irrational.  I don't suppose it really occurs to them that, to the rest of us, they look like asshats.  There's probably a bit of sociology here on the cult-like aura of Objectivism that would be interesting to consider -- Objectivism and the Intelligent Design movement as marginal intellectual sub-cultures that have been re-invigorated by the Internet.  Hmmm . . .  

Anyway, the whole idea of "the stolen concept fallacy" depends on a theory of concepts that I find deeply problematic, for reasons I present over there.

  
Cubist



Posts: 558
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 25 2013,21:11   

This "stolen concept fallacy" thingamabob is nothing but good old presuppositional apologetics with the serial numbers filed off and a fresh coat of paint. "Yes, yes, I'll be happy to discuss the validity of my concepts with you—just as soon as you concede that my concepts are valid!"

  
timothya



Posts: 280
Joined: April 2013

(Permalink) Posted: June 26 2013,07:45   

From Denyse O'Leary:
 
Quote
Knock us over with a paper clip.

Over at Evolution News & Views, Casey Luskin asks, could P. Z. Myers even possibly have read Steve Meyer’s Darwin’s Doubt before writing a long essay trashing it?:

Yup, you got knocked over by a stationery item.

What, exactly, is your competence as a journalist? Do you have difficulty in working out who wrote what?

You might do better if you hire a fact checker.

I haven't stopped laughing yet.

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"In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread." Anatole France

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: June 26 2013,13:29   

Quote (timothya @ June 26 2013,07:45)
From Denyse O'Leary:
     
Quote
Knock us over with a paper clip.

Over at Evolution News & Views, Casey Luskin asks, could P. Z. Myers even possibly have read Steve Meyer’s Darwin’s Doubt before writing a long essay trashing it?:

Yup, you got knocked over by a stationery item.

What, exactly, is your competence as a journalist? Do you have difficulty in working out who wrote what?

You might do better if you hire a fact checker.

I haven't stopped laughing yet.

Edit and re-edit: Actually I believe it's Nick Matzke, not PZ.

The UD title has been corrected.

PPPPS: The title has been corrected, but the URL can't be corrected.



:p  :p

Edited by midwifetoad on June 26 2013,13:32

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: June 26 2013,13:56   

Damn. That thread's full of Nazis. I hate Nazis.

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 26 2013,15:57   

Quote (midwifetoad @ June 26 2013,11:56)
Damn. That thread's full of Nazis. I hate Nazis.

And snakes.

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 26 2013,21:33   

Quote (fnxtr @ June 26 2013,14:57)
Quote (midwifetoad @ June 26 2013,11:56)
Damn. That thread's full of Nazis. I hate Nazis.

And snakes.

And being called "Junior".

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 26 2013,22:46   

Quote (midwifetoad @ June 26 2013,13:29)
Quote (timothya @ June 26 2013,07:45)
From Denyse O'Leary:
     
Quote
Knock us over with a paper clip.

Over at Evolution News & Views, Casey Luskin asks, could P. Z. Myers even possibly have read Steve Meyer’s Darwin’s Doubt before writing a long essay trashing it?:

Yup, you got knocked over by a stationery item.

What, exactly, is your competence as a journalist? Do you have difficulty in working out who wrote what?

You might do better if you hire a fact checker.

I haven't stopped laughing yet.

Edit and re-edit: Actually I believe it's Nick Matzke, not PZ.

The UD title has been corrected.

PPPPS: The title has been corrected, but the URL can't be corrected.



:p  :p

It can. but she's too dumb to figure it out.

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Driver



Posts: 649
Joined: June 2011

(Permalink) Posted: June 27 2013,00:23   

Is DDS a completely different affliction to Alinskyite Dark Triadism or related? Enquiring deranged well-poisoning minds want to know.

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Why would I concern myself with evidence, when IMO "evidence" is only the mind arranging thought and matter to support what one already wishes to believe? - William J Murray

[A]t this time a forum like this one is nothing less than a national security risk. - Gary Gaulin

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 27 2013,03:43   

Actual title of a post by Sal:  
Quote
Even supposing ID is not science, it does not automatically mean it is religion, philosophy, or metaphysics

That's right, it could just be bullshit.

  
damitall



Posts: 331
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 27 2013,08:51   

Or politics -often the same thing as bullshit

  
sparc



Posts: 2088
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 27 2013,10:10   

Quote (CeilingCat @ June 27 2013,03:43)
Actual title of a post by Sal:    
Quote
Even supposing ID is not science, it does not automatically mean it is religion, philosophy, or metaphysics

That's right, it could just be bullshit.

Quote
The stink from Haeckel’s embryos

Old News would have been a more appropriate nom de plume, Denyse.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1036
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 27 2013,10:38   

Quote (Henry J @ June 26 2013,21:33)
Quote (fnxtr @ June 26 2013,14:57)
Quote (midwifetoad @ June 26 2013,11:56)
Damn. That thread's full of Nazis. I hate Nazis.

And snakes.

And being called "Junior".

And stuff that is not in a museum...

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
Dr.GH



Posts: 2333
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 27 2013,10:40   

Re: Haeckel

"Haeckel's embryos: fraud not proven." Robert J. Richards
Biol Philos (2009) 24:147–154
DOI 10.1007/s10539-008-9140-z

(Opens a PDF)
http://tinyurl.com/qcuc89f....qcuc89f



Edited by Dr.GH on June 27 2013,08:41

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Amadan



Posts: 1337
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 27 2013,12:14   

Does the fact that they're "re-engineered" mean:

(a) that they've been prepared so that ID "scientists" can appreciate them?

(b) that they are fraudulent materialist LIES!!!!!!!

or

(c ) the Designer (pbuh) diddit?

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
eigenstate



Posts: 78
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: June 27 2013,14:33   

Lizzie's recent response to KF is worth noting in passing:


Quote
And this: “cultural watershed direct attack on core sexual identity, family and marriage” is, in my view, complete rubbish. That doesn’t matter – you are entitled to express it. But you shouldn’t be surprised if the response is disgust and anger. There is no “cultural direct direct attack on core sexual identity”. What there is, thank goodness, is increasing understanding and tolerance of the biological fact that possession a Y chromosome does not determine whom you will, or should, love, and which gender you will, or should, identify with. As a result we now recognise that while most people’s gender identity is congruent with their chromosomal sex, gender identity results from a complex cascade of in utero hormones, and may not. Similarly, while most people are attracted to the opposite gender, some people’s sexual orientation is towards the same gender. Again, in utero hormones seem to be important. But whatever the biological determinants, there is no evidence whatsoever that tolerance of gay and transgender people is any threat whatsover to the heteronormal community, and sadly rather too much evidence that the reverse is still in operation. That’s why people get angry when they read views like yours, however principled. It is a principle based on no good evidence at all.


The whole thing is worth reading.

  
damitall



Posts: 331
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 27 2013,16:22   

Quote (eigenstate @ June 27 2013,14:33)
Lizzie's [URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/philosophy/even-supposing-id-is-not-science-it-does-not-automatically-mean-it-is-religion-philosophy-

or-metaphysics/#comment-459739]recent response[/URL] to KF is worth noting in passing:


Quote
And this: “cultural watershed direct attack on core sexual identity, family and marriage” is, in my view, complete rubbish. That doesn’t matter – you are entitled to express it. But you shouldn’t be surprised if the response is disgust and anger. There is no “cultural direct direct attack on core sexual identity”. What there is, thank goodness, is increasing understanding and tolerance of the biological fact that possession a Y chromosome does not determine whom you will, or should, love, and which gender you will, or should, identify with. As a result we now recognise that while most people’s gender identity is congruent with their chromosomal sex, gender identity results from a complex cascade of in utero hormones, and may not. Similarly, while most people are attracted to the opposite gender, some people’s sexual orientation is towards the same gender. Again, in utero hormones seem to be important. But whatever the biological determinants, there is no evidence whatsoever that tolerance of gay and transgender people is any threat whatsover to the heteronormal community, and sadly rather too much evidence that the reverse is still in operation. That’s why people get angry when they read views like yours, however principled. It is a principle based on no good evidence at all.


The whole thing is worth reading.

I did, and it certainly was! - if only to remind us of the pompous, pearl-clutching, professional umbrage-taking ass Mullings is.

Thankfully, he has no influence whatsoever - not even, it seems, amongst the other UDites.

  
damitall



Posts: 331
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2013,07:47   

Now Mullings has produced a major rant, going from probabilities related to coin-tossing, through Buchenwald, to slavery.

Mad.

[URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/of-coin-tosses-expectation-materialistic-question-begging-and-forfeit-of-credibility-by-ma

terialists/]Link[/URL]

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2013,07:51   

I'm not seeing any defenders.

  
damitall



Posts: 331
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2013,08:07   

Quote (Febble @ June 28 2013,07:51)
I'm not seeing any defenders.

No, but the loudspeaker in the ceiling is operating full blast!

It's hilarious!

I blame you, of course, Febble. You tried to treat the man fairly and decently, offering peace, and it's obviously pushed him over the edge.

It'll be interesting to see what defence or support he gets from his own side.

  
Driver



Posts: 649
Joined: June 2011

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2013,08:49   

Solar system needle in a haystack search, Lewontin, Book X of The Laws, materialists=Marxist Nazis, inference to best explanation.

Good to see Gordon posting original content.

--------------
Why would I concern myself with evidence, when IMO "evidence" is only the mind arranging thought and matter to support what one already wishes to believe? - William J Murray

[A]t this time a forum like this one is nothing less than a national security risk. - Gary Gaulin

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2013,09:17   

Meanwhile back in Gordo's scullery on Manjack Heights.

Any agony down in Babylon dis day Gem?

Lot o' badness dat battybwoy Lissie wuz tearing up da LORD Jah.

Wey yu a go inna dem deh cloze? Yu fayva buttu?

No kya weh im tun, im gone to hell.

Why yu fe galang so. Gwaan go maas. Every hoe ha dem stick a bush.

Nuttin' nah go right

oh Gordo!

...


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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 659
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2013,14:30   

Quote (damitall @ June 28 2013,13:47)
Now Mullings has produced a major rant, going from probabilities related to coin-tossing, through Buchenwald, to slavery.

Mad.

[URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/of-coin-tosses-expectation-materialistic-question-begging-and-forfeit-of-credibility-by-ma










terialists/]Link[/URL]

I'm a mild-mannered chap, but fuck me, GEM can be a slimy piece of well-poisoning shit. I get a couple of paragraphs in and he feels the need to make explicit his use of the term 'fellow-travellers'. Yes! I mean LIKE MARXISTS! MARXISTS!

(Ironically, his graph of multiple tosses converging on the mean shows a remarkable resemblance to the loss of variation in a population due to drift - ie, Drift causes all-heads (or tails) through chance alone. With resampling, convergence goes to the extremes on the original distribution, instead of being anchored by the middle. I wonder which biology more closely resembles ... ?)

[eta: I wondered if I was being a tad harsh - because I am a nice chap at heart - until, after writing the above, I got to the bit about Buchenwald. Fuck 'im!]

Edited by Soapy Sam on June 28 2013,20:34

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SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G

BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

  
Driver



Posts: 649
Joined: June 2011

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2013,17:59   

Quote (Soapy Sam @ June 28 2013,20:30)
[eta: I wondered if I was being a tad harsh - because I am a nice chap at heart - until, after writing the above, I got to the bit about Buchenwald. Fuck 'im!]

He posted the same photo (and same drivel) back in April.

--------------
Why would I concern myself with evidence, when IMO "evidence" is only the mind arranging thought and matter to support what one already wishes to believe? - William J Murray

[A]t this time a forum like this one is nothing less than a national security risk. - Gary Gaulin

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2013,18:09   

This seems to be his primary source.

http://www.mygenes.co.nz/downloa....oad.htm

Sheesh.

  
keiths



Posts: 2195
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2013,01:15   

Niwrad assures batshit77 that his heavenly reward will be in proportion to his spam output:
Quote
bornagain77, thanks.

When it will be your turn (I wish you it will be very late……) you will can answer: “Lord, I defended You with Terabytes of top-level contributions to UD”. Your work will be even more repaid because done as an humble commenter.

born-again, names matter.


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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2013,02:39   

For record  :)

Gordon has deleted the comment below so I just thought I'd post it here. Please note, Gordon, that I didn't call you insane, just that your idiotic posts make you appear so.

 
Quote
 
Quote
I’m sorry but is the owner of this blog happy with such ranting?


I recall something posted elsewhere by Barry that would suggest he is.

PS @ Barry

Indeed I didn't bother to read KF's post. As I have remarked before, life's too short and on past form he neither says anything new or different, neither does he appear capable of giving critical comments a fair reading.

PPS @ Kairosfocus

Ad hominem is a rhetorical fallacy. I am not addressing your argument which is apparently about coin tossing. I am merely pointing out that including the illustrations you did in your OP makes you appear, well, barmy. I just thought you ought to know.


link

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 659
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2013,03:23   

Quote (keiths @ June 29 2013,07:15)
Niwrad assures batshit77 that his heavenly reward will be in proportion to his spam output:
 
Quote
bornagain77, thanks.

When it will be your turn (I wish you it will be very late……) you will can answer: “Lord, I defended You with Terabytes of top-level contributions to UD”. Your work will be even more repaid because done as an humble commenter.

born-again, names matter.

And the Lord will say ... "evolution, you dumb twat! EVOLUTION! I couldn't have made it any bloody plainer!  ... Dawkins, Darwin, I've told you before about sniggering".

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SoapySam is a pathetic asswiper. Joe G

BTW, when you make little jabs like “I thought basic logic was one thing UDers could handle,” you come off looking especially silly when you turn out to be wrong. - Barry Arrington

  
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