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  Topic: The evolution of coloration in fungi, are brightly colored fungi aposematic?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

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Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2007,11:29   

Quote (VMartin @ June 28 2007,11:10)

Uh - don't look now, but you just agreed with a probable cause of that natural selection.

I don't see the point. I have never agreed that Natural selection is the cause of mushroom's coloration. If I agreed that toxicity of mushrooms is probably detected by wild animal by smell it would not necessary mean that I agree with NS as source of it either. It's only your logic you know.

Toxicity of mushrooms is another puzzle. I have mentioned Lethal webcaps. Digestion of this mushroom will destroy your liver - but sometimes first nuissances are detected only after 3 weeks. Anyway the poison will kill the animal that had eaten the mushroom. Obviously such type of poison was not created and maintained by Natural selection. It has no sense - no animal would be able to make relation between mushroom eating and its nuissance after so many days.

I have mentioned already Amanita muscaria as very delicious mushroom, Amanita phalloides  as most poisonous one and strangely enough - Amanita muscaria with its toxic effects. Due to its toxic effects the muhroom is sought for by some species (deers) and the others (didelphis) are avoiding it. So to find any darwinistic explanation of such diverse "survival strategy" in the same Genera is very difficult. To find out darwinistic explanation of toxicity of Amanita muscaria is impossible.

That's the reason why this thread is dying. Neodarwinists after first research - at least the intelligent among them - see that my point is correct. Natural and sexual selection as the cause of mushroom's coloration is wrong and misleading explanation (and of toxicity as well).


Let's back up and look at the bigger picture.

1) You cited some research by some real biologists pointing out that toxicity and color are not necessarily related in fungi.  These scientists pointed out this lack of relationship. You have not done any real scientific work here at all, but you are relying on actual scientists to look at actual data and get it published. Why don't you do some actual work, generate your own hypothesis about why some mushrooms are colored, test it, and get it published?  That would be a real contribution.

2) Pointing out how neo-Darwinian mechanisms fail to explain a phenomenon leads you into two corners. In the first place, it does not mean that your explanation is correct or even likely, unless you test that explanation and find evidence that is consistent with it. When hypothesis A fails it does not automatically provide support for hypothesis B. The second problem, if you are arguing that mushrooms were created this way, is that this is a god-of-the-gaps argument. If real scientists can do real experiments and find a natural explanation for the fact that some fungi have colorful fruiting bodies, your god just got a little smaller.

3) Science, unlike religion, does not claim to explain everything. There are lots of places where a real scientist, unlike a creationist, will say "I don't know". Such a statement, and such a situation, does not automatically cause the collapse of a theory which is abundantly supported by lots of other evidence. It also, as pointed out above, does not automatically provide support for alternative explanations; you need to do experiments and generate positive evidence for your explanation before anyone will give it more consideration. And even in that best-case scenario, you still have to generate a BETTER explanation for all of the other facts and evidence that support the rival explanation. There is a lot of evidence for common descent and evolution. Pointing out a single instance where scientists say "I don't know" is not enough to overthrow an explanation which is consistent with millions of other observations.

So why don't you give us your explanation of this observation, generate a testable hypothesis, and get busy testing it?

Or if that sounds like too much work, why don't you answer the other question - Do you agree with Davison on common descent?

Thanks in advance for ignoring that question yet one more time.

Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

  215 replies since June 26 2007,15:36 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

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