Joined: Feb. 2006
|Ditto above ... funny ... every non-YEC history book I can find anywhere says things like "4000 (or so) BC: History Begins" (I never find over 10,000). Hmmm... what did all those 'Homos' do for 1,996,000 years? You're telling me they all of a sudden started writing and making artifacts only in the last .000000001% (or whatever) of their existence on the planet ... yeah, pretty plausible|
Dave, as a fellow EE it’s embarrassing to see you continue to flaunt your ignorance on such topics. Art and artifacts have been around for way before 4000 B.C. Have you never heard of the Lascaux cave paintings in France? Google is your friend Dave – you could easily find hundreds of examples that contradict your silly words if you were motivated to look.
Your personal incredulity and ignorance will never be acceptable as evidence, Dave.
|Uh, oh. I'm getting 'Aftershaved" again. Hey try some intelligent sounding arguments instead of insults ... they work better. See Corkscrew, Norm and Chris Hyland and others for some good examples of intelligent sounding stuff.|
Sorry Dave, my intention is not to insult you. However, when you continue to say really stupid things, and I point out to you that they’re really stupid things, I can understand how you’d feel slighted.
|Let's get the (Behe) quote right at least if you're going to quote him. Here's what I found ... |
I didn’t quote him Dave, I accurately described his testimony.
|OK. So astrology wants to call itself a science? Let 'em. They have to prove their ideas just like the YECers and everyone else. Don't you believe in the free market of ideas? I think the majority would weed them out just like it does in other arenas.|
The scientific community HAS weeded them out Dave, over 150 years ago. That’s why the Creationists and IDers are trying to use the legal system to get their religion forced into science classrooms.
|Do you see an Astrology Chapel at the USAF Academy? (I was just there). Do you see a Scientology chapel? Or a Buddhist temple? No. You see a BIG Protestant chapel, a smaller Catholic chapel and a smaller still Jewish chapel. Why? Democracy. Freedom. Reflection of the majority within practical limits. Should the USAF Academy shut down all religion on campus b/c it's a government entity? Of course not. Remember.. here in the USA ... Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion [no state church lke the Church of England] or prohibiting the FREE EXERCISE thereof. Same for science classes. |
Wrong Dave. Science is not a democracy, and scientific facts aren’t decided by majority vote. Do you think we can pass a law that will reduce the force of gravity by 50%? Or change the properties of chemical bonds?
|We shouldn't be telling kids 'God created the world' in science class and we shouldn't be telling the world that 'Evolution created the world' in science class. We should be telling them 'Most scientists believe some form of Darwin's Theory of Evolution to explain the appearance of life. Many non-scientists and a minority of scientists believe in some form of supernatural cause for the appearance of life. Creationism and Intelligent Design Theory are two of these views.' |
That’s great for a philosophy class, but dead wrong for a science class. Should we teach the Geocentric view of the universe in science class because some non-scientists and a teeny minority of scientists hold that view?
|And if Astrology or Scientism or Christian Science or whatever gets a big enough following, then throw them in there too and let the kids decide for themselves with the help of their parents. |
Wrong again Dave. Kids, even with the help of their lay parents, do not have the technical knowledge to decide for themselves what is scientifically accurate.
| "The prosecuting attorney then dropped a two foot high stack of over 60 peer-reviewed scientific papers and articles with research detailing the evolution of the human blood clotting system and asked Behe if he was familiar with the work.. Behe replied that he didn’t need to read them as he already knew his claim was correct." |
I didn't check this quote for accuracy, but I imagine he feels as I feel that scientists just keep on writing mountains and mountains of nonsense to support these notions they really, really want to be true ... like the immune system evolved, etc. I've read a lot myself and it all starts to sound the same ... I'm sure you can relate.
He’s supposed to be a profession scientist and an expert on the subject. Since he never bothered to read all the scientific evidence, how did he know it was nonsense? The scientific evidence being presented “all sounds the same” to you only because it all directly contradicts your ignorance based view of scientific reality.
Being ignorant doesn’t mean unintelligent Dave, it just means untrained. I’m quite ignorant of the flight controls of a Huey, but I’m sure you could teach me. You don’t see me going on web sites and claiming that I already know better that those “closed minded” Huey drivers about how to pilot their aircraft.
|Many people here have said the same about the stuff I write. I will agree with you that it seems hair-brained to adopt the strategy to go try to defend a local school board's decision to put 'Evolution Warning Labels' on the books. I mean ... who knows what kind of rednecks you might be defending? Why fight this in the courts anyway? I can think of better places to get the word out. So is that 2 things we agree on now? Oh yeah ... we're both EE's. OK 3 then.|
Then you need to tell that to the Creationists who avoid the scientific peer review process like the plague, and opt for “end runs” through the legal system instead.
Sorry again if you feel insulted – I’ll buy you a beer or three if we ever meet As you are passionate about your cause, I am just as passionate about scientific literacy. I see a real threat to the economic future of my country if the pseudoscientific pushers like the Creationists continue to try and lower the U.S. science standards.
JoeG: And by eating the cake you are consuming the information- some stays with you and the rest is waste.