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  Topic: AFDave's UPDATED Creator God Hypothesis 2< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Mike PSS

Posts: 428
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2006,12:52   



Reading into the R.H.Brown reference at the top is a 'REACTION' link.

On that page ( a Ross O. Barnes questions the 'carbon exchange reservoir' available that would impact atmospheric CO2 (and thus the 14C/12C ratio).
Given the above limitation on increases in the inorganic exchange reservoir, the required increase in the active organic carbon reservoir is nearly 2000 times the present biospheric carbon inventory. Until some plausible model is presented for such a huge increase in the antediluvian organic carbon exchange reservoir, Brown's conclusion that "these considerations ... provide justification for confidence that C-14 age data for time prior to approximately 3500 B.P. are associated with a transition between the pre-biblical-flood biosphere and the contemporary biosphere" should be judged somewhat premature.

R.H.Brown then responds.
Confusion regarding the term "biosphere carbon inventory" may be avoided by making specific that whatever term one may use for the concept, it is clearly understood to designate the active carbon inventory in the region of the planet that supports organisms.
   Although the 14C/12C ratio in the surface layer of the ocean is typically about 5% below that in air, freshwater, soil surface, and the organisms which populate them, for the purposes of the treatment in ORIGINS 6:30-44, it is convenient and satisfactory to treat these four regions as one subregion of the general biosphere, designated "upper biosphere" in the treatment cited. The active carbon exchange reservoir, to use Dr. Barnes' choice of terminology, in this subregion is reliably estimated to be 4.03×1012 metric tons (Table 1, Item 9). Air and water contain 37.2% of this inventory in inorganic form; living and dead organic material represent the remaining 62.8%, 60.6% of which is associated with land and 39.4% is in the ocean (calculations from data in Table 1).
   Assuming that flood sediments were formed about 5000 real time years ago, and that at their initial formation these sediments had a 14C/12C ratio no greater than the minimum detectable by current conventional gas or scintillation counting techniques, requires that 45,000-50,000 years of 14C age be accounted for on some basis other than that given by a simplistic uniform conditions model, as discussed in ORIGINS 6:30-44. This range of 14C age represents 7.85-8.73 half-lives for 14C. The reduction in 14C/12C ratio over this half-life range is in the range 231-425 (27.85 -28.73). For the task at hand one can postulate that before the flood the 14C production rate in the atmosphere was less in this ratio, the upper biosphere carbon inventory (active carbon exchange reservoir in the upper biosphere) was greater in this ratio, or any appropriate combination of intermediate factors for lower 14C production and greater inventory. In the following discussion the "upper limit" factor 425 will be used, recognizing that the true situation might be approximately twice as easy (231 factor) to accommodate.
   We can speculate that the CO2 concentration in the preflood atmosphere was near 1%, approximately 20 times its contemporary value, since plants generally exhibit more vigorous growth as CO2 levels are increased up to this level, and the atmosphere becomes toxic at higher levels. It may be assumed that the carbon concentration in the water components of the upper biosphere, being in contact with the atmosphere, would be identified with a similar increase. Accordingly the factor F by which living and dead organic material must be increased to secure a total upper biosphere carbon inventory increase by a factor of 425 is given by

0.372 × 20 + 0.628 × F = 425,

from which F = 665.

   To model a preflood biosphere that might meet these requirements, one can postulate a 665-fold greater number of contemporary-sized plants and animals, worldwide total, assuming a constant ratio of living to dead organic material; or one can postulate a net 665-fold increase in the volume of the average individual organism. A 665-fold increase in volume is associated with an 8.71-fold ( 3Ö665) increase in lineal size. [Recall 30-inch wingspan of fossil dragonflies, the size of fossil Equisetum, etc.]. Doubling the average lineal size of organisms would require only an 83-fold increase in their numbers to provide a 665-fold increase in biomass.

Talk about trying to make your numbers work out.  Mr. Brown's first assumption is that he has to find a way to fit all the 14C data into 5000 years.
There are so many other knee-slappers that I leave it to others to comment.
I do see that he admits the toxic nature of elevated CO2 levels (but still arbitrarily jacks them up by 20x).

But the kicker is at the end of his reply.  He states
I know of no objective basis for confidence that a particular model for the preflood biomass, land/water surface ratio, or 14C production rate is "correct," but the development presented in this note seems to provide justification for confidence that models can be developed which are appropriate and also contribute to an understanding of 14C age data that is consistent with the chronological witness of Scripture.
So Mr. Brown "writes off" his entire essay about 14C and plants it firmly in the realm of conjecture and speculation,  just so it can fit Scripture.

Peer-review this article again Dave.

I think you'll have to reframe your whole 200x carbon argument because you can't use R.H.Brown to support it.

Mike PSS

  4989 replies since Sep. 22 2006,12:37 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

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