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  Topic: The Bathroom Wall, A PT tradition< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

Posts: 317
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2008,23:12   

Quote (Daniel Smith @ Dec. 05 2008,23:50)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Dec. 05 2008,08:49)
Quote (Daniel Smith @ Dec. 05 2008,08:27)
Maybe I can help you all understand my perspective better with a theoretical question.

If God really did create life, and science cannot consider any supernatural mechanisms, what would the state of biological science be?

I'd argue that it would be exactly in the state we find it in today - with no plausible explanations for the origins of any living system.

It's like you are charged with coming up with a theory that explains the manufacturing of automobiles - but you're not allowed to consider human intervention.

Your theory would offer inexplicable conclusions based on real observations:  "Here's a little red wagon - it has four wheels and a steering mechanism", "Here's a lawnmower - it also has four wheels but it has an engine", "These are obvious precursors to automobiles, therefore automobiles assemble themselves", etc.

Instead of more babbling, can you tell us what it means for an enzyme to be 'rational'?

It means they make sense.  They function as if designed rationally.  They behave as if they were put there by someone who knew what they were doing.  Do you need more?

When an enzyme attaches itself to a substrate in six places, and five of the six are a perfect fit while the sixth is not, it may seem as if that sixth active site is a mistake.  But when that "imperfect" site just happens to twist the substrate in such a manner that it allows the molecules on the sides of the enzyme to perform the exact interactions required to weaken the substrate so that the "imperfect" twist now causes it to break at that precise point - with the resulting product being exactly what is needed for the next step in a biochemical pathway - that's no mistake.  The enzyme is acting as if it was designed by a rational being.  The design is rational.

How, pray tell, would natural selection build such a thing?  


Believing in accidental, arbitrary mechanisms is like working on a car but, instead of choosing the correct tools from your toolbox, you let a small child hand you the tools randomly until he just happens to hand you the right one.  You then use that tool and wait.  You continue the process until the job is done (if ever).  Such a process may seem feasible, but what happens when the tool you need is a 3/8" drive ratchet, with a 6" extension, and a 12mm socket?  How long will you be there waiting for him to hand you that combination?

Of course, you could just do what God did and choose the correct tool out of the toolbox yourself.  Of course that'd be too simple for you - wouldn't it?

So your argument, essentially, is that god is a really shitty mechanic who takes spends a few billion years working on a car, and even then it still breaks down regularly, with parts that barely work and are prone to breaking?

To rebut creationism you pretty much have to be a biologist, chemist, geologist, philosopher, lawyer and historian all rolled into one. While to advocate creationism, you just have to be an idiot. -- tommorris

  19124 replies since Jan. 17 2006,08:38 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

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