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  Topic: Question for the Id supporters, Seriously< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

Posts: 118
Joined: May 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2006,20:52   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 09 2006,12:0)
So while it is true that evolution (and plain common sense for that matter) conflicts with the Judeo-Christian creation myth but how does this promote the idea that no God exists at all?

And old fashioned common sense conflicts with many Bibical myths such as no human being is going to survive 3 days and 3 nights inside the belly of a whale.  Common sense and a marginal understanding of human biology indicates no human being is going to live for 300 or 700 years.  And the world is not 6,000 years old.   Is common sense the enemy of faith as well?

Is believing in the literal interpretation of the Judeo-Christian creation myth neccessary for belief in God?

It's not evolution's clash with the Judeo-Christian creation myth that's the key problem, that is simply the result of the real issue which is, as they would put it, "believing the Bible".

Christian fundamentalists have been taught their whole lives that the Bible is "true", and not just true, but "literally true". So while they can usually explain away the odd inconvenient paragraph which talks about things like "four corners of the earth" etc, the creation myth is too big, too central to what happens in the rest of the Bible to be anything other than "real history".

Evolution will always be butting heads against this problem unless and until this central tenet of fundamentalist belief is overturned (or at least falls out of favour, like in most of Western Europe these days).

It's so hard to fathom sometimes. I know of any number of otherwise rational, logical, skeptical human beings who suddenly start spouting the most inane idiocies when the subject turns to anything remotely OT biblical. They just don't want to hear anything else.

I once talked to a fundamentalist co-worker (a really nice guy) about the potential for major natural disasters--caldera volcanos, huge underwater landslides, meteors, etc--only for him to start telling me how that all reminded him what happened at the time of Noah's Ark and the Global Flood. I mean, what are you supposed to say to something like that??

To these fundamentalists, if you prove to them that evolution (over millions of years) happened, you are disproving the Garden of Eden, the Fall of Man, Original Sin, the need for Salvation and ultimately, the necessity of Jesus's sacrifice on the Cross. It's as if these things are dominos standing on end next to each other. You push the first one over and the rest all come tumbling down after it.  This is what creationists believe is at stake for them - the very foundation of all their religious beliefs.

Fundamentalists think that theistic evolutionists are sell-outs. They simply cannot understand how you can be a fulfilled Christian if you believe that Genesis didn't actually happen the way the Bible says it did. (As an atheist, I have a certain sympathy for that viewpoint but obviously for different reasons!<!--emo&;). Many of these same people also believe that if  they woke up tomorrow morning having lost their belief in God, they would all be raping and pillaging by lunchtime.

The reason I'm talking about all this is, whether the IDist like it or not, the only reason ID is even getting a sniff of publicity is because of the over 50% of the population in the USA who are creationists. Without the fundamentalist Christians, ID is still lurking in the outer fringes of Art Bell's talk show and other kooky pseudoscience web sites. Many of the ardent IDists themselves may honestly believe that they are doing it for the good of science. That's fine. I can accept that. But they are fooling themselves if they don't understand that they are being used and manipulated by the Phillip Johnsons of this world whose motives are overwhelmingly religious.

So, while most activist IDists will agree that you can believe in God without being a "Bible believing" literalist, the vast majority of those who support them or would vote with them do not believe it is possible. To them, ID is simply a tool for defeating evolution, soon to be discarded for the "truth" of the Genesis Chapter One.

  33 replies since Feb. 09 2006,06:06 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

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