Erasmus, FCD
Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007
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80000 bird stomachs doesn't make a damn. it wasn't an experiment. there was no control group. all that can be said is "sometimes birds eat aposematic forms". we have never denied this.
ineffective in toto is a very different thing from ineffective sometimes. all that your bird guts show is that it is ineffective sometimes.
you assume, in order to wave your arms at the point:
1 all bird species and prey species are equally distributed in abundance, range size and habitats (we know this is not true, care to argue about it?)
2 bird predation are the only selective force that prey respond to (again, care to argue about this one?)
3 all birds have the same preferences for palatability (care to argue this one? perhaps summarize mcatee data for aposematic prey by species of predator?) my little boy doesn't like carrots. my neighbors does. there is also variation in the toxic compounds manufactured by aposematic caterpillars (in my lab, today, i was told about varying amounts of aristolochic acid sequestered by caterpillars that was explained by brood membership. in other words, offspring of different females had different toxic compound sequestration. clearly prey vary in toxicity).
the point about fire is certainly appropriate. if you are like every other non-magical formalist/orthogeneticist, you probably believe there are deterministic laws that apply to the phenomena of biology. if this is true, you need to catch up on 20th century biology.
Let me summarize it for you: Things vary. It matters. Sometimes.
There is no fundamental law in ecology evolution or biology (just ask Bob O'H!!!)
I'm not repeating any mantra, except that your data cannot possibly be used to make the conclusion you wish to make, for simple reasons above.
I retract the stupid part. You are obviously smart enough to know better than the argument you are making, this is a rhetorical game for you. I've seen better, though.
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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK
Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG
the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat
I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles
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