The Ghost of Paley
Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005
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| Quote | I think I made the point that although muslims make up more of the prison population than their representation in the general public would acount for, other groups do so to a greater extent.
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And.....? That would like an American open-borders advocate saying, "Ok, Hispanic illegals commit a lot of crime, but you shouldn't mind because African Americans commit even more!" Sorry, but I expect more from my immigrants. Besides, comparing one hard-to-assimilate group with another isn't the best way to make your case.
| Quote | | The point about you dishonestly quoting the stats is very simple. You have picked things which you think support your case and omitted things that don't. |
No, I have selected the most relevant data. If the British Government didn't have religious breakdowns, then yes, we'd have to make do with geographical/ethnic proxies. The point, however, is that they do have this information, and at least according to one source, they get the religious affiliation prior to "jailhouse" conversions. So why not go with that? Yes, I'm aware that Pakistanis/Bangladeshis make up the plurality of Muslims, but apparently other Muslim ethnicities are more than making up the difference crime-wise. Here's a nice source that shows the demographic breakdown. Notice that 43% of Muslims are neither white nor South Asian.
Notice that Louis doesn't challenge a single statistic in my rebuttal.
| Quote | Since I have no case (as I stated right at the outset of this thread) it doesn't matter to me one way or the other, I am free to quote everything. As I said at the start it might turn out that muslims are worse than all other immigrant groups, but that I seriously doubt it.
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Maybe. I strongly suspect you're of Turkish background, which would imply a pro-Muslim bias. In any case, all I care about is your argument. You're the one who can't resist ad homs.
Notice that Louis doesn't refute any of my statistics.
| Quote | My minor point is that you can only ever support such a view by distorting the facts, selective reporting and hyperbolic rhetorical nonsense. Posting articles about how debates rage over veils, or how in Windsor nasty things happen doesn't butter any parsnips. Yes there are problems it's ridiculous to deny there are problems, but these are problems from a wide variety of sources and any remote understanding of history (very recent in some cases) shows that immigrant populations before muslims had similar if not exactly the same problems. The point is that you have done nothing to support your original claim which was that muslims are worse than other groups. The stats show that by and large they are not worse than other groups. This is not the same thing as there being no conflicts at all.
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I'll let the lurkers decide this for themselves, but I notice that nobody could put a dent in my critique of the religion itself, or the history of Muslim - Christian/Hindu conflict. Nobody challenged Stephen's survey. This says something, I think.
| Quote | | With the prison population thing you are deliberately and dishonestly ignoring the point I am making very clearly which is simply that if we go by proportion of general population vs proportion of general population south asians (of which the majority of British muslims are a subset, look at the other stats) are better off that Afro-Carribeans (for example). |
I've addressed this above, but I can't understand why you're comparing hard-to-assimilate groups. Why not compare Muslims to the average? That seems more reasonable to me.
| Quote | If we go by religious leanings then muslims are better off than people with no religion. However, the minute you correlate those data with poverty, education etc you find that the correlation between these factors is more significant that religion. Look at that big old document that frightens you so much, you'll find social groupings in there too.
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First, you should be comparing the Muslim prison proportion with their population proportion, not their prison proportion with other prison proportions. How do we know that the nonreligious are overrepresented to begin with? Perhaps they're underrepresented, in which case your (irrelevant) comparison is actively misleading. Second, I'm not through with the "wah, wah, they're poor so they aren't as accountable for their actions" charge. I'll deal with that later.
| Quote | Nice try, pity you failed.
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I'll let the reader decide.
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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.
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