NoName
Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013
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| Quote (N.Wells @ Oct. 11 2015,13:20) | | Quote | | They are absolutists in a very bad sense -- once they have convinced themselves, or become convinced, that they have THE TRUTH, well, they must be correct and so everyone else must be wrong. It is a self-reinforcing system of errors. |
They are psychologically highly invested in their constructs, for certain.
| Quote | | [Religion is] an enabler, for sure |
Yes. Neither one is endlessly going on about religion. Gary spent quite a bit of time at ARN arguing against literalist interpretations and creationism. However, he keeps throwing in unnecessary religious dogwhistles (the finger of god as a directional arrow in his diagram, references to trinities of things, Adam and Eve, etc.) and clearly wants to save ID from itself and thereby unify religion and science. Religion is not driving him the way it drives Phillip Johnson, William Dembski, and Jonathan Wells, for example, and he's not a fundamentalist, but it's a reinforcer. Edgar is also not front-and-center about religion, but unlike Gary he does seem to be a young-earther, and his insistence on animals being intellen is because he is presuming divine creation, so I think religion is a bit more fundamental for him (in both senses, I guess). |
I'd have to agree. Can't believe I'm saying this, but Gary does seem to be slightly more sane than Edgar. Edgar is far more invested in Christianity than Gary, although both are stuck tight to it.
| Quote | | Quote | | he's literally stuck in place and will defend his position until something truly over-powers his ability to hold to his interlocking set of errors. |
Exactly. So what does that take? What's the best route to showing or convincing him that he's wrong? |
Therapy?
I'm honestly not sure there is a 'best route'.
How do you convince someone that their 'evidence' has no evidentiary force or standing?
How do you convince them that their 'logic' is anything but?
How do you teach adults, in particular, how to abstract, generalize, analyze?
How do you even get them to see that there's something there that's worth learning? If they don't already see it, I think it's all but impossible.
And once you're dealing with someone who is obsessed with their own "insights" who thinks you are trying to change them, well, kiss the effort goodbye.
| Quote | | Quote | | What must be really really devastating for Gaulin and Postardo is that they can't even catch the ID crowd's eye |
If I was them, that would be eating me up, but they don't seem nearly as bothered as I would expect. |
True enough, although I think they are both whistling past the graveyard and are putting on brave fronts.
We're "the enemy" and so cannot be allowed to see how much their failures have damaged them.
Gary let's it leak through sometimes as part of his "poor poor unjustly unappreciated me" schtick.
Edgar is too loony-tunes to be sufficiently self-aware and so probably doesn't see it as clearly as Gary, dimly though Gary might see it.
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